On edit: This looks like a mess, sorry! I am on mobile and can't correct it right now. So sorry!
Well, you're quick to jump to the ad hominem attacks and assume the absolute worst about people, aren't you?
Those are ways in which I consider myself to have what people usually consider a "feminine" personality. I could have discussed other things, like my dislike of body hair or my preferred role in sexual relationships, but that's more personal than I'm comfortable discussing right now.
I never said they couldn't.
Did you just completely miss the part where I said I don't actually want a sex change and don't really consider myself a woman?
Christ, you're putting a lot of words in my mouth. I never said anything about women being failed men, women who are into math actually being men, or anything like that. I honestly have no idea where any of this is coming from. I think you're having quite a kneejerk reaction here, assuming any man who questions feminism is a conservative traditionalist who thinks women belong in the kitchen or something.
For one thing, women aren't considered disposable/expendable. Their suffering isn't mocked. People don't laugh openly about their genitals being mutilated on daytime talk shows.
I don't believe that's true, but let's assume for a moment that is is. The flip side of that is never being appreciated for your looks, not being considered to have any inherent beauty or value, and being considered worthless and deserving of scorn if you're not sufficiently successful in materialistic society, even if you have no interest in such "success". And that's what men face.
Correction: A tiny minority of men, and some women, hold political and economic power. In no way whatsoever does that translate to men in general having power. This is known as the apex fallacy, and it's a common feminist mistake.
I don't expect feminists to "center" any men, because I don't believe they care about men.
And now, due to your blind hatred of anyone who dares question feminist dogma, you once again attack me for things I never said and throw out the accusation of misogyny (a word that's thrown around so much that it's lost all meaning) just because I said I think I'm a feminine man and wouldn't be surprised to learn I'd been a woman in a past life.
Well, you're quick to jump to the ad hominem attacks and assume the absolute worst about people, aren't you?
Those are ways in which I consider myself to have what people usually consider a "feminine" personality. I could have discussed other things, like my dislike of body hair or my preferred role in sexual relationships, but that's more personal than I'm comfortable discussing right now.
I never said they couldn't.
Did you just completely miss the part where I said I don't actually want a sex change and don't really consider myself a woman?
Christ, you're putting a lot of words in my mouth. I never said anything about women being failed men, women who are into math actually being men, or anything like that. I honestly have no idea where any of this is coming from. I think you're having quite a kneejerk reaction here, assuming any man who questions feminism is a conservative traditionalist who thinks women belong in the kitchen or something.
For one thing, women aren't considered disposable/expendable. Their suffering isn't mocked. People don't laugh openly about their genitals being mutilated on daytime talk shows.
I don't believe that's true, but let's assume for a moment that is is. The flip side of that is never being appreciated for your looks, not being considered to have any inherent beauty or value, and being considered worthless and deserving of scorn if you're not sufficiently successful in materialistic society, even if you have no interest in such "success". And that's what men face.
Correction: A tiny minority of men, and some women, hold political and economic power. In no way whatsoever does that translate to men in general having power. This is known as the apex fallacy, and it's a common feminist mistake.
I don't expect feminists to "center" any men, because I don't believe they care about men.
And now, due to your blind hatred of anyone who dares question feminist dogma, you once again attack me for things I never said and throw out the accusation of misogyny (a word that's thrown around so much that it's lost all meaning) just because I said I think I'm a feminine man and wouldn't be surprised to learn I'd been a woman in a past life.
Doppelgänger said: (go to post)
Thanks, this is exactly the kind of sexist thinking I am talking about.
Well, you're quick to jump to the ad hominem attacks and assume the absolute worst about people, aren't you?
Where is the ad hom? You said you were more like a woman because you are emotional, bad at math and spatial thinking. That is sexist.
An ad hominem is attacking the person rather than the argument, by the way. I am attacking your argument that you are a woman due to the above “deficits.” I didn’t call you a sexist; I said your argument was sexist or sexist thinking.
Doppelgänger said: (go to post)
You might be a woman because you are emotional rather than logical? You are bad at math and “mechanical/spatial things”?
Those are ways in which I consider myself to have what people usually consider a "feminine" personality. I could have discussed other things, like my dislike of body hair or my preferred role in sexual relationships, but that's more personal than I'm comfortable discussing right now.
Can you define what you mean by a “feminine personality?”
Doppelgänger said: (go to post)
Women can be good or bad at these things too.
I never said they couldn’t.
But that is what you implied.
Doppelgänger said: (go to post)
Your problem is with masculinity within the culture. Just because the culture says you are a “failed man” because you don’t live up to that ideal DOES NOT MAKE YOU A WOMAN.
Did you just completely miss the part where I said I don't actually want a sex change and don't really consider myself a woman?
I did see that (and I don’t consider cosmetic surgery to resemble the opposite sex a “sex change,” anyway.) But you did talk about not feeling kinship with other men due to your personality, and that makes you more of a woman. I was not calling you a “failed man.” It is men who do this to other men when they don’t live up to the ideal of masculinity. A
Doppelgänger said: (go to post)
Women ARE NOT FAILED MEN. We are women, and all it entails being a woman.
Doppelgänger said: (go to post)
There are women who are logicians, mechanical engineers, and very good at math. That does NOT make them men.
Christ, you're putting a lot of words in my mouth.
You know, perhaps I did do that, and if so, I apologize. But you were using a lot of the language and buzz words, but could be mistaken, and if so, I apologize.
I never said anything about women being failed men, women who are into math actually being men, or anything like that. I honestly have no idea where any of this is coming from. I think you're having quite a kneejerk reaction here, assuming any man who questions feminism is a conservative traditionalist who thinks women belong in the kitchen or something.
See above about the “failed men.” I don’t think anyone who questions feminism is a conservative traditionalist. I have my own issues with third-wave feminism, and I have got some shit for it. Ultimately, I don’t think any movement is above critique.
Doppelgänger said: (go to post)
What are these “advantages” that women have in society
For one thing, women aren't considered disposable/expendable.
We are going to disagree here because women are considered disposable. We are seen as either fulfilling men’s sexual desires or as incubators. Female prostitutes are certainly considered disposable, though I am vehemently against that thinking.
Their suffering isn't mocked. People don't laugh openly about their genitals being mutilated on daytime talk shows.
Women’s suffering is constantly mocked. Entire porn genres exist to mock women’s suffering that men look at every day.
And are you talking about circumcision? I am against it, personally. I refused to have my son’s genitals mutilated, though my family was not happy about it!
I have no idea what you mean about daytime talk shows since I don’t watch them and don’t have television (only Netflix).
Doppelgänger said: (go to post)
besides being prized for their looks over their intelligence and ambition?
I don't believe that's true, but let's assume for a moment that is is. The flip side of that is never being appreciated for your looks, not being considered to have any inherent beauty or value, and being considered worthless and deserving of scorn if you're not sufficiently successful in materialistic society, even if you have no interest in such "success". And that's what men face.
Women go through the same thing. We are human beings, people, just like you. We got mocked constantly for our looks (a whole billion-dollar industry exists to make women feel bad about their looks), and if we don’t succeed in this materialist society, we are also devalued. Called useless, stupid, unintelligent, “bad” at [insert industry here], and if we do marry a successful man, we are “gold diggers.”
Doppelgänger said: (go to post)
Men across the entire planet hold political and economic power.
Correction: A tiny minority of men, and some women, hold political and economic power. In no way whatsoever does that translate to men in general having power. This is known as the apex fallacy, and it's a common feminist mistake.
Sure, the richest and most powerful people in the world are men. They are the minority. The majority of men around the planet also hold power over women. Even the poorest men in countries like India, Saudi Arabia, Thailand, China, and on and on are considered “better” than women. Parents use ultrasounds to abort female fetuses as they are “useless.” Even men in Western countries prefer boys over girls.
Look, we all have our struggles, but this “women have it good” thing is BS. Every sex has its problems, unique to them.
Doppelgänger said: (go to post)
Why should women center men like you in feminism
I don't expect feminists to "center" any men, because I don't believe they care about men.
It’s not because they don’t care about men, as most women are heterosexual and have husbands and also have sons. The purpose of feminism is a liberation movement for women. Would you say that a black-rights movement has to worry about whites? Groups are allowed to prioritize their own interests over others in a movement.
And now, due to your blind hatred of anyone who dares question feminist dogma, you once again attack me for things I never said and throw out the accusation of misogyny (a word that's thrown around so much that it's lost all meaning) just because I said I think I'm a feminine man and wouldn't be surprised to learn I'd been a woman in a past life.
And there it is. I am “hating.” Where did I hate? I have nothing against “feminine” men. My problem is with the word “feminine.” I think men can like ponies, sparkles, pink and dresses. But they are still men, and good for them for doing that and challenging the cultural norms.
For someone who “feels like a woman” you do not come off as someone who has any empathy for women.