soulatman
Member
Hi all,
I want to encourage EVERYONE to watch this presentation by a Dr William Guy. Dr Guy it seems is a "believer" (I am not) in the traditional Biblical Christian sense, but his presentation is masterful and comprehensive. Please do not be put off by his Christian faith, it does not seem to bias his presentation, and his credentials and objectivity seem evident to me.
(Personally, I would suggest skipping to 08:30 ish and watching from here, as the first bit is a little too Christian appologetics for my liking and lends nothing to the main body of the presentation, but the rest seems to be pure "following the data wherever it leads" stuff)
I recently stumbled upon a number of documentaries regarding the Shroud of Turin. I like many had thought that it was a proven medieval forgery, and the story ended there, but boy was I wrong. Turns out, that EVEN if it is a forgery (which I cannot see how it is), it is impossible to explain. Bizarrely, after being exposed to all the data that is presented by Dr William, and using Occam's oh so sharp razor, I must conclude that the simplest explanation for how the image got onto the cloth, must be a paranormal and non conventional one.
One of the reasons the Shroud has really got my attention is that in terms of my views on religion, Christianity and Spirituality in general, I think my evolution in this regard has been very similar to Alex's. In fact, listening to this podcast has been a major force in my spiritual evolution and thinking, and the information Alex has shared has been of inestimable value.
Like Alex, I have been drawn towards Indian philosophy in my personal spiritual journey, and have an attraction towards Bhakti yoga, but also many eastern philosophical perspectives and philosophies. Jesus was an important figure in my youth, and then I became more atheistic/agnostic during my years at University studying philosophy (God is educated out of most of us), and slowly rediscovered the spiritual later through buddhism, Hinduism (particularly vedanta philosophy) etc, and podcasts like Skeptiko.
I always felt that of all the spiritual figures throughout history, the one which really had the most powerful emotional effect on me was the Jesus figure I learned about and wondered about in my youth, so I was always sad to have lost that along the way. As a Jungian archetype, the Jesus figure still resonates most powerfully with me. I came to accept that the unembodied myth was enough, and that a real human was not necessary.
But as Alex himself has said and wrestled with in a number ofepisodes, what do we make of the fact that this Jesus figure turns up in so many NDE's?
I loved the episodes covering Ceasars Messiah, and swallowed it all down without any resistance, however, this cloth certainly now gives me pause. I would particularly love to know what Alex makes of this Shroud, and the data surrounding it, and what his thoughts are on the interplay of anomolous data like this, with wonderfully presented evidence for the Flavian usurping or even creation of the biblical Jesus.
Also, I know I can count on the wonderful Skeptiko forum users to share their broad knowledge of so many topics, and also dig and uncover things not easily accesible or readily apparent.
I would love to know everyone's thoughts and opinions on this most interesting artifact, and the implications. But please, I ask, watch the video first.
Also I am posting links to other videos on YouTube below, as there are so many wonderful documentaries and presentations on this, and it is so seemingly compelling. Please share your thoughts on this.
Soul
https://youtu.be/P0wsbxJGuus
I want to encourage EVERYONE to watch this presentation by a Dr William Guy. Dr Guy it seems is a "believer" (I am not) in the traditional Biblical Christian sense, but his presentation is masterful and comprehensive. Please do not be put off by his Christian faith, it does not seem to bias his presentation, and his credentials and objectivity seem evident to me.
(Personally, I would suggest skipping to 08:30 ish and watching from here, as the first bit is a little too Christian appologetics for my liking and lends nothing to the main body of the presentation, but the rest seems to be pure "following the data wherever it leads" stuff)
I recently stumbled upon a number of documentaries regarding the Shroud of Turin. I like many had thought that it was a proven medieval forgery, and the story ended there, but boy was I wrong. Turns out, that EVEN if it is a forgery (which I cannot see how it is), it is impossible to explain. Bizarrely, after being exposed to all the data that is presented by Dr William, and using Occam's oh so sharp razor, I must conclude that the simplest explanation for how the image got onto the cloth, must be a paranormal and non conventional one.
One of the reasons the Shroud has really got my attention is that in terms of my views on religion, Christianity and Spirituality in general, I think my evolution in this regard has been very similar to Alex's. In fact, listening to this podcast has been a major force in my spiritual evolution and thinking, and the information Alex has shared has been of inestimable value.
Like Alex, I have been drawn towards Indian philosophy in my personal spiritual journey, and have an attraction towards Bhakti yoga, but also many eastern philosophical perspectives and philosophies. Jesus was an important figure in my youth, and then I became more atheistic/agnostic during my years at University studying philosophy (God is educated out of most of us), and slowly rediscovered the spiritual later through buddhism, Hinduism (particularly vedanta philosophy) etc, and podcasts like Skeptiko.
I always felt that of all the spiritual figures throughout history, the one which really had the most powerful emotional effect on me was the Jesus figure I learned about and wondered about in my youth, so I was always sad to have lost that along the way. As a Jungian archetype, the Jesus figure still resonates most powerfully with me. I came to accept that the unembodied myth was enough, and that a real human was not necessary.
But as Alex himself has said and wrestled with in a number ofepisodes, what do we make of the fact that this Jesus figure turns up in so many NDE's?
I loved the episodes covering Ceasars Messiah, and swallowed it all down without any resistance, however, this cloth certainly now gives me pause. I would particularly love to know what Alex makes of this Shroud, and the data surrounding it, and what his thoughts are on the interplay of anomolous data like this, with wonderfully presented evidence for the Flavian usurping or even creation of the biblical Jesus.
Also, I know I can count on the wonderful Skeptiko forum users to share their broad knowledge of so many topics, and also dig and uncover things not easily accesible or readily apparent.
I would love to know everyone's thoughts and opinions on this most interesting artifact, and the implications. But please, I ask, watch the video first.
Also I am posting links to other videos on YouTube below, as there are so many wonderful documentaries and presentations on this, and it is so seemingly compelling. Please share your thoughts on this.
Soul
https://youtu.be/P0wsbxJGuus