The Donald Trump Thread

I am trying to figure out what is going on with Mexico. It looks like Trump is stomping on them, the peso is crashing. ... But when the peso goes down, Mexican goods are less expensive in the US and other countries so Mexican exports will go up. Who is trolling whom?
 
Jim_Smith said:
I am trying to figure out what is going on with Mexico.
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I certainly think that depends on your perspective. How must it feel as a Mexican citizen to have its near neighbour want to 'wall them in' and then threaten a trade tariff (or other blunt instrument) to force payment. Reminds me of some ugly protection racket.The likely economic consequences are muddled at best and will burn both sides in all sorts of unpredictable ways. The symbolism is positively authoritarian!

Welcome to the first salvo in the new trade war, where winners become losers before our eyes.
 
malf said:
Whilst America is gazing at its own navel, China amd Russia will be the global beneficiaries.
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Interesting excerpt from Gordon White's mailing list regarding this:

...That narrative is lost to them forever, no matter how many changes to the Google algorithm they mandate. Look at what founder of Alibaba, Jack Ma, said on CNBC: Over the last 35 years, the US has embarked on a neocon strategy of war in an effort to build a global empire. The result of that strategy has left American infrastructure second rate, its school system in shambles, and its healthcare system a complete and utter joke.

"It's not that other countries steal jobs from you guys," Ma said. "It's your strategy. Distribute the money and things in a proper way." He said the U.S. has wasted over $14 trillion in fighting wars over the past 30 years rather than investing in infrastructure at home.

He said the U.S. is not distributing, or investing, its money properly, and that's why many people in the country feel wracked with economic anxiety. He said too much money flows to Wall Street and Silicon Valley. Instead, the country should be helping the Midwest, and Americans "not good in schooling," too.

"You're supposed to spend money on your own people," Ma said. "Not everybody can pass Harvard, like me." In a previous interview, Ma said he had been rejected by Harvard 10 times. Along those lines, Ma stressed that globalisation is a good thing, but it, too, "should be inclusive," with the spoils not just going to the wealthy few...
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Chinese exports of both goods and jobs to Africa seems to be an interesting move on their part. I've heard - but need to double check - that China plans to move a lot of its own manufacturing to Africa as it sees itself transitioning away from manufacturing as a major component of its GDP.

It's also invested into "alternative" energy.

Of course anything could happen but I do wonder how much of the globe China will dominate in the coming decade.
 
laborde said:
I certainly think that depends on your perspective. How must it feel as a Mexican citizen to have its near neighbour want to 'wall them in' and then threaten a trade tariff (or other blunt instrument) to force payment. Reminds me of some ugly protection racket.The likely economic consequences are muddled at best and will burn both sides in all sorts of unpredictable ways. The symbolism is positively authoritarian!

Welcome to the first salvo in the new trade war, where winners become losers before our eyes.
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Watch what China does.
 
Jim_Smith said:
I would rather eliminate the legislative branch of government and let the people vote directly on legislation by phone or internet. Elected representatives could still be involved in drafting legislation, but in modern times, there is no reason why we need elected representatives to vote on legislation, they were needed when transportation and communication was slower but are obsolete today.
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Ideally I would like a mixture of both systems - there needs to be a way to enable people to initiate a vote (as opposed to being given the opportunity by parliament - as happened with Brexit) - but I don't think people would want to vote on absolutely everything. UKIP had/has just such a policy, and Switzerland has something of that sort too.

I think such an approach might damp down the surges of enthusiasm for wild policies - open borders, foreign wars, climate change, identity politics, etc etc. I suppose the American people took the next best option and voted in a non-politician as president.

David
 
Laird said:
The problem of "don't know enough to have an informed opinion" can easily be overcome by the ability to delegate one's vote - either (perhaps by default) to one's nominal "representative" (appointed as in the current system) or to one's partner, or a public voice one trusts. One could even elect to delegate one's vote to different people on different policies/issues/categories.
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There's nothing easy about this at all.

On one end of the spectrum you end up right back where we are today.

On another you end up with Kanye West casting 4.5 million votes he's been delegated by fans.

My point is that people are too damn busy with their every day lives to be this involved in the legislative process. Plus, the myriad of decision makers you allude to under the delegation process would have no viable forum to discuss the issues prior to voting.

I just don't see how this would work as a replacement to our current legislature.
 
Silence said:
There's nothing easy about this at all.

On one end of the spectrum you end up right back where we are today.

On another you end up with Kanye West casting 4.5 million votes he's been delegated by fans.

My point is that people are too damn busy with their every day lives to be this involved in the legislative process. Plus, the myriad of decision makers you allude to under the delegation process would have no viable forum to discuss the issues prior to voting.

I just don't see how this would work as a replacement to our current legislature.
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Responded to your post in the Direct (digital) democracy thread.
 
David Bailey said:
Ideally I would like a mixture of both systems - there needs to be a way to enable people to initiate a vote (as opposed to being given the opportunity by parliament - as happened with Brexit) - but I don't think people would want to vote on absolutely everything. UKIP had/has just such a policy, and Switzerland has something of that sort too.

I think such an approach might damp down the surges of enthusiasm for wild policies - open borders, foreign wars, climate change, identity politics, etc etc. I suppose the American people took the next best option and voted in a non-politician as president.

David
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Other examples of wild policies would be things like building a huge wall in a desert to stop immigration from a country where immigration is at its lowest for 40 years, banning people from certain countries entering yours, building huge pipelines on sacred Native American lands, continuing with the heavy use of fossil fuels, blaming a union your country is a part of for the actions of your own government - the list is endless!
 
David Bailey said:
Regarding voter fraud, I am guessing that things in the US are somewhat as they are in Britain - everyone is uneasy that postal votes can be abused, and the system feels loose. I would say that voting is at the heart of our democracy, and real effort should be made to seek out fraud and to make fraud as difficult as possible.

Regarding torture, I would rather the President had not said what he said about water-boarding, but to put it into context, the Bush administration collaborated with our country to send people to be tortured in other countries - the process was called "Special Rendition".

David
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Not sure what the point of this last paragraph is - it seems pretty clear that Trump is planning on bringing back torture based on his words. If you're uncomfortable with this, maybe start to consider that there are huge drawbacks to Donald Trump.
 
Roberta,

I think Trump is backing down on the idea of using torture, but please note that the UK Labour government arranged with the Bush administration to send certain prisoners to Libya to be tortured! I don't mean that as a justification for performing torture, but as a reminder that people can be pretty hypocritical.
Roberta said:
Other examples of wild policies would be things like building a huge wall in a desert to stop immigration
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Borders need to be enforcible IMHO.
, building huge pipelines on sacred Native American lands,
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Hopefully the pipeline can be somehow negotiated with the Native people, but the alternative is to carry the fuel by train, and every now and again there are terrible accidents.
continuing with the heavy use of fossil fuels,
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I don't believe in CO2 induced global warming - at least not at remotely dangerous levels, so I consider this harmless.
blaming a union your country is a part of for the actions of your own government - the list is endless!
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I am not sure what this refers to - but remember I am not American.

President Trump is shaping up pretty good as far as I can see. I hope his conversation with President Putin was productive.

David
 
What swamp-draining looks like:

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-trump-immigration-ban-conflict-of-interest/

President Trump has signed an executive order that bans citizens from seven Muslim-majority countries in the Middle East from entering the United States for 90 days, according to the White House. His proposed list doesn’t include Muslim-majority countries where his Trump Organization has done business or pursued potential deals. Properties include golf courses in the United Arab Emirates and two luxury towers operating in Turkey.
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http://www.newsweek.com/us-bars-christian-not-muslim-refugees-syria-497494

THE U.S. BARS CHRISTIAN, NOT MUSLIM, REFUGEES FROM SYRIA
BY ELLIOTT ABRAMS ON 9/13/16 AT 12:40 AM
...
But when you have been running a refugee program for years, and you have accepted 10,612 Sunni refugees and 56 Christians, and it is obvious why and obvious how to fix it, and nothing is done to fix it—well, the results speak more loudly than speeches, laws, intentions or excuses.
​
 
David Bailey said:
Roberta,

I think Trump is backing down on the idea of using torture, but please note that the UK Labour government arranged with the Bush administration to send certain prisoners to Libya to be tortured! I don't mean that as a justification for performing torture, but as a reminder that people can be pretty hypocritical.

Borders need to be enforcible IMHO.

Hopefully the pipeline can be somehow negotiated with the Native people, but the alternative is to carry the fuel by train, and every now and again there are terrible accidents.

I don't believe in CO2 induced global warming - at least not at remotely dangerous levels, so I consider this harmless.

I am not sure what this refers to - but remember I am not American.

President Trump is shaping up pretty good as far as I can see. I hope his conversation with President Putin was productive.

David
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1) I know we used torture before. I was against it then and I'm against it now. What is there to suggest Trump is backing down on the idea?

2) Borders already are enforced, immigration from Mexico is at a 40 year low, look at how the world rejoiced when the Berlin Wall fell. Trump is doing things that history will look back on kindly - as you're supporting him.

3) The pipeline won't be negotiated, it will be enforced. After what America has done to the indugieneous peoples of America throughout history, to do this is so wrong on so many levels.

4) You're wrong about manmade climate change though.

5) I'm referring to the UK's scapegoating of the EU.

6) Does that include the ban on Muslims which means Mo Farah and a British Conservative MP cannot travel to America?

I don't know what it is you're seeing, but it concerns me that anyone can think that he's shaping up good.
 
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