Critiques of Science as Currently Praticed

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What the DI does, is promoting a belief based on faith, and pretend it is science, that is simply not honest
I think if you want to make a statement like that, you should back it up with a quote.
This is what i wrote in a previous answer to you.
According to it's founding document the Wedge Strategy, it's goals are:

To defeat scientific materialism and its destructive moral, cultural and political legacies
To replace materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding that nature and human beings are created by God
Makes it pretty clear, not?

From what I have read of the DI's output, they leave theological questions aside, and focus on the science. If you watched the video, you will see that they prevailed over and over based on scientific arguments. In fact, it was the other side that kept bringing God into the discussion to try to discredit the DI folk!
About that debate, it was organized at Biola University, Which is (no surprise) a private christian university.
The opponents of ID/creationism were not the most well versed with the DI arguments.
From the info on the video:
Bruce Weber (Biochemistry, Cal State Fullerton), Larry Herber (Geology, Cal Poly Pomona, ret.), Jim Hofmann (Liberal Studies, Cal State Fullerton), Craig Nelson (Liberal Studies Cal State Fullerton) and Charlotte Laws (columnist/author), and Keith Morrison (Dateline NBC).
Only one scientist comes from a scientific field with real relevance.

More important though, how can you know their arguments are scientific? That has always been my main point in this thread.
Let me repeat:
It has set up a closed system of it's own "scientific" institute, that publishes it's own "scientific" publication where the institutes "scientists" conveniently can have their "papers" peer reviewed.
This is going through the motions with the only purpose being the ability to claim "peer review" for their "work"

This is not science, this is not even pseudoscience, this is pretend science.

The researcher, institute, publisher, reviewer are all the same entity, an entity that has no further ties with any scientific body.
How can we trust anything that comes from such a system? Do you?
To me, that makes everything that comes from that source fatally flawed.

If they had been thumping a bible, I doubt if any of the proponents would have bothered to pursue the subject further!
Of course, they keep their mock science and their religion separated, that is the whole point of starting the DI.
But that does not mean that their non-religious content is science, it can be bullshit without being religious.

Bart, it isn't just the DI, it is also this crowd:

http://www.thethirdwayofevolution.com/

They are scientists who definitely see the shortcomings of evolution by natural selection, but they seem to think there is a middle way that would replace natural selection with something that seems decidedly fuzzy right now. Now remember, that conventional science - of which Dawkins is an extreme example - have simply banged on the idea that natural selection solves everything, while privately acknowledging that it can't explain many things for exactly the reasons we have discussed here.

If (and I think it is a big if) the Third Way people are able to produce a biological theory that can replace NS (at least in the cases where NS obviously can't work) then fine - maybe it will be time to forget about ID, but what I object to, is scientists who pretend they can answer all the criticism of NS, when patently they cannot.
This is what i repeated on this thread, from another thread:
The third way movement, is interesting, but it is also a very big tent.
if i take a look at the list of authors, and their work, they represent a very wide range of viewpoints.
To me they look a bit to heterogeneous to be one movement.
But, at first sight, most of them seem honestly frustrated scientifically or philosophically.
As long as they fight for their ideas in the scientific literature, let us wait and see.

I am all for forgetting about the DI, but whenever the next discussion about evolution comes around, i am sure anti-evolutionists invariably are going to prove their point by linking to DI sources.

NS made far more sense in the time of Darwin, where the nature of genes was unknown, but they were assumed to be fairly simple things. This is because NS operates best where the are a sequence of steady improvements to be made - A,B,C,D,E,F. If B is more efficient than A, and C more efficient than B, etc, then one can see how this could work to bring about evolution. However, if the transition from A to B involves 100 steps which individually have no advantage to the organism - that is where NS fails, and the DNA encoding is exactly like that - half a gene for a new protein is completely worthless!
I completely disagree, the discovery of DNA, is what made evolution theory complete, it was the piece that made the puzzle complete.
One of the things that helps the opponents of ID, is that nobody yet can make a video (not a simulation) of all the unbelievably complex machinery to be found in a single cell. Every bit of that machinery would require a long string of mutations to create it, and then, unless it was the last piece of something like the flagellum, it would be useless - so NS could not help in its evolution.

Come back Lone Shaman!

David

He would probably back up what you said backed up by linking to the DI blog "evolution news", or Axe's work, both DI.
Besides that, given honest criteria for banning, and his tendency for ad hominem he would be very quickly banned.
 
This is what i wrote in a previous answer to you.

Makes it pretty clear, not?


About that debate, it was organized at Biola University, Which is (no surprise) a private christian university.
The opponents of ID/creationism were not the most well versed with the DI arguments.
From the info on the video:
So let me reverse this. If a group were attacking the (silly) belief that the earth was made 6000 years ago, and said their aim was:

"To defeat biblical ideas about the age of the earth, and their destructive moral, cultural and political legacies. To replace biblical explanations with the scientific understanding that nature and human beings are created by random processes"

You would discount everything that group then said on the basis that they were biassed? No I guess you wouldn't, but isn't that double standards?

I mean these are people who believe that the evidence isn't there to claim evolution by NS is a viable explanation, and some of them also believe in Yaweh. I agree with them that NS isn't a viable explanation, but I am not too fond of Yaweh!
Only one scientist comes from a scientific field with real relevance.
If I thought there was a queue of scientists willing to take up this challenge, and they deliberately picked the weakest of the bunch, I'd be right with you, but I guess that isn't what happened.
More important though, how can you know their arguments are scientific?
Because I think I have enough grasp of the issues involved, to make up my own mind. I explained exactly what the problem is with evolution by NS, and you chose to ignore that. I am not trying to be rude, but I suspect that that is because you don't have enough background in science to discuss the scientific issues themselves

The threads on Skeptiko that relate directly to scientific matters do actually discuss science, and are popular because a significant number of people here come with a background in technical subjects.
I completely disagree, the discovery of DNA, is what made evolution theory complete, it was the piece that made the puzzle complete.
Fine - but don't hold back, please explain why you disagree!

David
 
He would probably back up what you said backed up by linking to the DI blog "evolution news", or Axe's work, both DI.
Besides that, given honest criteria for banning, and his tendency for ad hominem he would be very quickly banned.

I didn't quote your whole post because that last paragraph sums it up - and all your other posts on this subject: the DI has a religious agenda. Yes, Bart, we all know that. Nobody disputes that. But they remain the only organisation prepared to fund research that shows that what Dawkins calls the "appearance of design" is indeed design and not some hugely unlikely cosmic accident.

Why is the debate closed down by the neo-Darwinists? Why does Krauss have to stand in for his friend Dawkins who refuses to debate the issue? Why does Krauss get up on stage and attack God and religion and promote atheism and materialism but fail to address the ID science significantly? Both sides have an agenda. Design is denied by the consensus because design undermines materialism. To allow for design there has to be some intelligence and materialism holds that intelligence is an effect arising from evolution, not a cause or driver of evolution. The DI holds that the intelligence is the God of the bible. I and many others disagree because we don't share a concept of such a God but we do allow that there is probably more to reality than is defined by materialism.

So, when the guy in the video says that science is only about materialism (he calls it methodological naturalism) he is speaking for the consensus. He is saying that they will never allow intelligence into the debate, much less the classroom, because they have commitment to materialism. Once again, to quote Lewontin:


Richard Lewontin said:
The primary problem is not to provide the public with the knowledge of how far it is to the nearest star and what genes are made of, for that vast project is, in its entirety, hopeless. Rather, the problem is to get them to reject irrational and supernatural explanations of the world, the demons that exist only in their imaginations, and to accept a social and intellectual apparatus, Science, as the only begetter of truth. The reason that people do not have a correct view of nature is not that they are ignorant of this or that fact about the material world, but that they look to the wrong sources in their attempt to understand ...

Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.

But a few scientists (other than those at the DI) are critical of this a-priori assumption of materialism. Here's former NASA scientist, Dave Pruett, writing in the Huffington Post:

Dave Pruett said:
To date, previous posts have discussed the abandonment of four of science’s once-cherished notions: absolute space and time, determinism, dualism, and locality. Two additional posts addressed other assumptions that may be on their last legs: realism and reductionism. This brings us to the last — and most intransigent — of science’s sacred cows: materialism. Materialism is the presumption that all attributes of the cosmos, including human consciousness, derive from the properties of matter. To put it bluntly: matter — or its alter ego, energy — is all there is.

Materialism, I believe, harbors a multitude of sins. Today I’ll argue that the materialistic paradigm is detrimental both to science and to the human condition.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-pruett/sciences-sacred-cows-part_1_b_2948321.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-pruett/toward-a-postmaterialistic-science_b_5842730.html

Finally, there was he book that toppled Thomas Nagel from his position as the atheists' darling when he wrote "Mind & Cosmos: Why the Materialist Neo-Darwinian Conception of Nature is Almost Certainly False". Not only that but he went on to nominate Stephen Meyer's book, Signature in the Cell, for the Times Literary Supplement book of the year in 2009.
 
Methodological naturalism doesn't assume materialism. It is just a method of trying to figure out how nature behaves. It presupposes nothing.
 
Methodological naturalism doesn't assume materialism. It is just a method of trying to figure out how nature behaves. It presupposes nothing.

I was referring to what the guy in the video said and I am in no doubt that he conflated materialism and methodological naturalism (as, I'm sure, do most materialists). I suggest you look again at the video at 1h 14m 40s and hear his own words, quote "to go outside of [methodological naturalism] is to invoke something non-material". How clear can he be?
 
So let me reverse this. If a group were attacking the (silly) belief that the earth was made 6000 years ago, and said their aim was:

"To defeat biblical ideas about the age of the earth, and their destructive moral, cultural and political legacies. To replace biblical explanations with the scientific understanding that nature and human beings are created by random processes"

You would discount everything that group then said on the basis that they were biassed? No I guess you wouldn't, but isn't that double standards?
First of all, the DI being a religious advocacy group, as shown by their founding document, does not bother me the most.
In fact, if they left it at that, and would not claim science supports their viewpoint, i would not react at all.

What bothers me most is the way they rely on a system of pretend science.
The researcher, the "scientific" institute, the publisher, the reviewer, the are all members of the the same organisation.
That is the elephant in the room, that is what everybody in this exchange is conveniently ignoring.
And that is the more important reason why i would say that everything coming from the DI is fatally flawed on a scientific level.

All that said, your reverse analogy is not very realistic, is it?
If an organization existed with such founding principles, i would be very suspicious about them. I really can not see why somebody would feel the need to go from that founding principal. Already, this makes your analogy very contrived.

But, for argument's sake, let us assume some philosophically inspired group like that existed, they would not have to go very far to find evidence for proving the world older than 6000 years old, would they? The fossil record would do nicely, or basic geology.
More important though, they would not have to go mock research to prove their point.

This inability to come to an apt reverse analogy, actually proves my point.

I mean these are people who believe that the evidence isn't there to claim evolution by NS is a viable explanation, and some of them also believe in Yaweh. I agree with them that NS isn't a viable explanation, but I am not too fond of Yaweh!
I get that, but this is not about your, or Kamarling's, spirituality.
But if you do not agree with the motivation of the DI, why not be more critical of their "science".
Would you be so accepting of this sort of self generated, self published, self vetted cargo cult approximation of science, if it was about anything you disagreed with?

If I thought there was a queue of scientists willing to take up this challenge, and they deliberately picked the weakest of the bunch, I'd be right with you, but I guess that isn't what happened.
As i said before, that might be because a lot of well known scientists in relevant fields, make it clear they do not like to debate ID/creationism, they feel it might give it the legitimacy it does not deserve.

The panel on the evolution side had three members from the same institution, also local to the area of Biola university, so it seems they did not look very far.

More important though, how can you know their arguments are scientific?

Because I think I have enough grasp of the issues involved, to make up my own mind.
I doubt that.
You seem to be at the wrong end on almost every subject that comes up, be it climate change, cosmology, cold fusion, various conspiracies, and lots and lots more.

To do that you have to claim you know more than the combined expertise of almost every field of science.
Do you realize how incredibly arrogant that sounds? I can not believe the hubris expressed here.

I explained exactly what the problem is with evolution by NS, and you chose to ignore that.
No you didn't, you loosely quoted some DI trope. It even made me doubt you actually understand what evolution by NS is saying.
I am not trying to be rude, but I suspect that that is because you don't have enough background in science to discuss the scientific issues themselves.
You that could be right, but since you did not bring any real scientific evidence to the discussion, we can not know that, can we?
So if you think what you said about the ABC's of ID/creationism made sense, why do you not make that argument again, this time with quoting some science (real science, not the DI kind).
Preferably in a thread that is already about evolution, there are enough of these.

Oh, and about that not trying being rude thing, really David, try harder.


Fine - but don't hold back, please explain why you disagree!

David
I disagree because DNA is the mechanism for inheritance that was predicted by E by NS, without DNA, it would not have been the scientific fact it is now.
It is the best evidence for common ancestry, it helps us to assess points of diversion between species, etc..
But if you want to contend that DNA proves E by NS is impossible, see previous paragraph.
In both cases you seem to go against everything evolutionary biology says, so the burden of proof is on you.
 
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The motivation for any individual's research seems largely, if not completely, irrelevant. In DI's case, while they may try to deny it, there is clearly a desire to conduct research that leaves room for God (generically speaking). So what? Is there a single scientist anywhere free from bias? Should an atheistic scientist's work be summarily dismissed due to their metaphysical worldview?

I have no idea if this type of discrimination is occurring or not. Perhaps the broader scientific community has considered some of DI's research and concluded its lacking merit. I'd understand that and would hope the consideration given was in good faith. However, cutting them off at the knees because they have a theistic foundation just seems weak to me.
 
What bothers me most is the way they rely on a system of pretend science.
The researcher, the "scientific" institute, the publisher, the reviewer, the are all members of the the same organisation.
That is the elephant in the room, that is what everybody in this exchange is conveniently ignoring.
And that is the more important reason why i would say that everything coming from the DI is fatally flawed on a scientific level.
What on earth do you expect when the mainstream are so zealously biased against their research!!??? It'sprobably the only way they can get their research out in the open. If this is the only reason you believe that the DI research is flawed and can't even attempt to answer the difficulties that their research brings up with regards NS (which, BTW, is the only real issue) then may I suggest that you have absolutely no ammunition to debate with?
 
Statistics Hint There is Much More Scientific Fraud than Reported

Fraud, errors, and falsified data winds its way into the smallest niche publications, as well the most prestigious journals with the greatest impact factors. But the ones who get caught are generally the most egregious offenders, like a young researcher in Japan who published “game changing” results on stem cells that didn’t exist.

But how many studies with less bold claims fly under the radar, and are never caught by an editor or a peer reviewer?

Many, answers a new statistical analysis of thousands of studies in eight prestigious journals, published this week.
 
I disagree because DNA is the mechanism for inheritance that was predicted by E by NS, without DNA, it would not have been the scientific fact it is now.
First - DNA being understood as a mechanism - is flat wrong. A mechanical engineer will not be able to measure and model natural inheritance.

Inheritance is a bio-system that relies on information science. Bart - you are mimicking political ideas and haven't a clue as to how good archaeology research is trashing the bullsh_t of neoDarwinism.

Let me ask -- if a mechanical engineer was off by 200% from his prediction - to the the actual - would you hire him.

How old are the oldest humans? How long have humans been in the America's. (answers just out this year!)
 
Genes specify the kinds of proteins that are made by cells, but DNA is not the direct template for protein synthesis. Rather, the templates for protein synthesis are RNA (ribonucleic acid) molecules. In particular, a class of RNA molecules called messenger RNA (mRNA) are the information-carrying intermediates in protein synthesis.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK21171/

Humans may well be over 300,000 years not 80 -100k old. Humans in North America (although maybe a cousin) have evidence they crossed a land bridge 130K years ago and not 13,000 years ago. error factor 10X.

Evolution, in the future of science, may see NS as secondary factor in how living things evolve.
 
First - DNA being understood as a mechanism - is flat wrong. A mechanical engineer will not be able to measure and model natural inheritance.
You misunderstand my use of the word "mechanism" in my answer to David.
Darwin's theory of evolution relied on inheritance of acquired characteristics, the mechanism of how these characteristics hold over to the next generation was not known at the time.
So, the discovery of DNA more or less cemented evolution by NS.
In no way, was i trying to draw a parallel with mechanical engineering, although that is also much more an evolutionary process than most people think.

Inheritance is a bio-system that relies on information science. Bart - you are mimicking political ideas and haven't a clue as to how good archaeology research is trashing the bullsh_t of neoDarwinism.
So, inheritance cannot be a system that relies on both information and evolution?
My discussion with David was about the DI, an openly religious/political organisation, so i am not the one defending a political viewpoint.
Also i do not see how new archaeological discoveries would refute evolution by NS? I am a bit confused about the point you are making here.
Let me ask -- if a mechanical engineer was off by 200% from his prediction - to the the actual - would you hire him.

How old are the oldest humans? How long have humans been in the America's. (answers just out this year!)
Both of these are very new, the one about humans being 100K years older than we thought is very interesting.
The one about hominids coming to the America's possibly that early, is much more iffy, if you ask me. I sure hope they find some fossil remains, otherwise this one is always going to stay controversial.

But in both cases i am not sure what you are saying, The figure of 200K years for the origin of modern humans was always based on archaeology, never on prediction.
Even now, it is logically almost impossible that these new findings are going to be the oldest ones.

If you are claiming there were predictions that were wrong, you are fighting a straw man.

Again, as so often in this thread, you are giving examples of the self correcting nature of science.
 
You misunderstand my use of the word "mechanism" in my answer to David.
Darwin's theory of evolution relied on inheritance of acquired characteristics, the mechanism of how these characteristics hold over to the next generation was not known at the time.
So, the discovery of DNA more or less cemented evolution by NS.
In no way, was i trying to draw a parallel with mechanical engineering, although that is also much more an evolutionary process than most people think.

So, inheritance cannot be a system that relies on both information and evolution?
My discussion with David was about the DI, an openly religious/political organisation, so i am not the one defending a political viewpoint.
Also i do not see how new archaeological discoveries would refute evolution by NS? I am a bit confused about the point you are making here.

Both of these are very new, the one about humans being 100K years older than we thought is very interesting.
The one about hominids coming to the America's possibly that early, is much more iffy, if you ask me. I sure hope they find some fossil remains, otherwise this one is always going to stay controversial.

But in both cases i am not sure what you are saying, The figure of 200K years for the origin of modern humans was always based on archaeology, never on prediction.

Again, as so often in this thread, you are giving examples of the self correcting nature of science.
The recent discoveries of how DNA/RNA/Ribosome interacts with environmental signals has completely refuted the Weismann Barrier as a real physical thing. DNA is not a "master control" and epigenetic activity is now seen as equal to or more active in the creative variation observed in inheritance. I am committed to the self-correcting of science based on data! Hence, I feel obligated to correct your comments about the politics of evolutionary dogma and how it tries to support dogma from the 20th Century.

The discovery of DNA in no way supports the false premise that RM and NS are the drivers of changes in species. Remember, some in science hear the word evolution, such as the evolution of a gas, and know the word simply means an observed process of change. Bio-evolution has become politically connected to a false meaning. Bio-evolution can be measured in terms of selection events. "Natural" is simply an outcome. Bio-evolution includes mental processes and selection by intent of individuals making up a species. You seem to be unaware of the ground shifting under your feet.

As to logic - since 80-100k years ago was set as the inception of modern humans - has been the prior prediction; how you can say it wasn't a prediction is surely confusing. I just see it as the language of true-believers who have trouble imagining the science facts from research and data. The belief in RM and NS has been sold as an analytic theory for a long time. That bio-evolution works in other completely different ways - is coming as a shock to folks like you.

Suzan Mazur: Is evolutionary science moving too quickly for even a new integrative synthesis to be relevant for very long?

Corrado Spadafora:
Three aspects need to be seriously recognized. First, epigenetics heavily affects inheritance. Second, there is transgenerational inheritance, that is, information that can be inherited from one generation to the next unlinked from chromosomes, because extrachromosomal DNA or RNA structures can get through the germline to the next generation and cause phenotypic variations in the offspring. Transgenerational inheritance constitutes a flow of information that parallels that associated with chromosomes. The third aspect is determined by retrotransposonsor retro-elements that exert genome-wide effects at both the genetic and epigenetic levels.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/suzan-mazur/does-the-weismann-barrier_b_7289146.html
 
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The recent discoveries of how DNA/RNA/Ribosome interacts with environmental signals has completely refuted the Weismann Barrier as a real physical thing. DNA is not a "master control" and epigenetic activity is now seen as equal to or more active in the creative variation observed in inheritance. I am committed to the self-correcting of science based on data! Hence, I feel obligated to correct your comments about the politics of evolutionary dogma and how it tries to support dogma from the 20th Century.

The discovery of DNA in no way supports the false premise that RM and NS are the drivers of changes in species. Remember, some in science hear the word evolution, such as the evolution of a gas, and know the word simply means an observed process of change. Bio-evolution has become politically connected to a false meaning. Bio-evolution can be measured in terms of selection events. "Natural" is simply an outcome. Bio-evolution includes mental processes and selection by intent of individuals making up a species. You seem to be unaware of the ground shifting under your feet.

As to logic - since 80-100k years ago was set as the inception of modern humans - has been the prior prediction; how you can say it wasn't a prediction is surely confusing. I just see it as the language of true-believers who have trouble imagining the science facts from research and data. The belief in RM and NS has been sold as an analytic theory for a long time. That bio-evolution works in other completely different ways - is coming as a shock to folks like you.
Stephen, if you quote a post from me, or any other forum member, please do not alter the content of what is literally quoted, i would very much appreciate you change what you quoted to what i originally wrote.
Besides that, if you quote from some article or other source, it is also very helpful if you provide a link to that source.

For the rest of your post, i find it hard to parse what is the science, what is the conclusion, and what is your opinion about it. If you could provide some sources that would make, what you are trying to say, more clear, maybe we would have something to discuss.
If, on the other hand, you just want an opportunity to rant about whatever irritates you, by all means don't hold back, but please do not expect me to answer.

The only concrete point i can react to, is the first appearance of modern humans.
I quoted the previous estimate of the first evidence for modern humans at 200 000 years ago from memory, because of this article i read last week.
From the article:
The remains of five early Homo sapiens have been unearthed at a site in northwest Africa. At around 300,000 years old, the fossils are a whopping 100,000 years older than the previous record, pushing back the origin of our species by a significant margin.
So i do not know where you got the figure of 80 to 100K years, but that estimate must be a few decades older i guess.
I also still do not understand how, and why, you would want to characterize these estimates as "predictions"? These estimates are based on what is found in the fossil record, and are therefore inherently provisional.
 
For the rest of your post, i find it hard to parse what is the science, what is the conclusion, and what is your opinion about it. If you could provide some sources that would make, what you are trying to say, more clear, maybe we would have something to discuss.

The only concrete point i can react to, is the first appearance of modern humans. So i do not know where you got the figure of 80 to 100K years, but that estimate must be a few decades older i guess.

I also still do not understand how, and why, you would want to characterize these estimates as "predictions"? These estimates are based on what is found in the fossil record, and are therefore inherently provisional.
The scientific reference points are in this quote.
First, epigenetics heavily affects inheritance. Second, there is transgenerational inheritance, that is, information that can be inherited from one generation to the next unlinked from chromosomes, because extrachromosomal DNA or RNA structures can get through the germline to the next generation and cause phenotypic variations in the offspring. Transgenerational inheritance constitutes a flow of information that parallels that associated with chromosomes. The third aspect is determined by retrotransposonsor retro-elements that exert genome-wide effects at both the genetic and epigenetic levels. C. Spadafore
link provided in prior post

The conclusion: Evolutionary science is moving too quickly for the narratives of the "modern synthesis" to remain as peer-reviewed theory.

My opinion: This is a valid conclusion and that the narrative of twenty years ago, is no longer relevant to the data. Yet ideas from the old narrative are still embraced with a earnest feelings, in the general public and entrenched in the science community.

I readily concur with your comment that my 100K years prediction for homo sapiens emergence was from the time of the old narrative and being 20 years old or more. It dates to a tipping-point in evolutionary science, a time when the "blind watchmaker" thesis falls apart. I had befriended Ted (Edward) Steele who was being restricted from teaching and had been a focus of rejection for challenging the status quo. He published Lamarck's Signature in 1998. Steele paid a price for it, in his academic status (as usual). I first discovered Spadafore, as his research (as well as others) was able to demonstrate that information was transferred from the somatic cells to germ cells and that inherited characteristics are free to be transmitted in ways that the neo-Darwinian narrative vehemently denies (and still does). Spadafore and others supported Steele and what followed is a steady stream of evidence and new research.

The narrative where a single RM (happening maybe just once) separates modern humans from all more apelike creatures becomes obscure. It seems there was a Cambrian-like output of new human types over a brief time. If modern humans are 300,000 years old - then we predate Neanderthals and maybe any number of growing homo-something species. The line of skulls going from little to big - ending with us - is deceptive. Again, as you have asked, I want to separate my opinion, from the science. My opinion is the advent of our comprehending mind transcends race, subspecies and phenotype. We have ignored mental evolution and the information processing it exhibits for too long. We need to know it rose up in the first organisms, how it works for plants and how we understand abstractions at all?

I hope to hear back comments on Spatafora's statements or on my opinions about a new narrative being needed to explain the genetic and fossil evidence.
 
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http://www.voicesfromoxford.org/news/margulisdawkins-debate/158

Lynn Margulis was the Eastman Visiting Professor and Fellow of Balliol, 2008-9. Sadly, she died on 22 November 2011. Therefore this debate can never be repeated, and the VOX recording of it is precious for that reason alone. But it is also precious because it reflects the current turmoil in the world of evolutionary biology. In fact, all the major assumptions of neo-Darwinism have been challenged. Jim Shapiro’s book Evolution, a view from the 21st century shows that mutations have been far from random, that sharing and exchange of DNA is ubiquitous and favours Barbara McClintock’s view that the ‘genome is an organ of the cell’ (McClintock won a Nobel prize for discovering ‘jumping genes’). Meanwhile, the great originator of socio-biology, E.O.Wilson has done a highly controversial volte-face in switching from the idea that all altruism originates from selfish genes flourishing through kin-selection to the idea that co-operation is also essential and that selection can occur at higher levels than the gene. The debate is therefore a great contribution to a much wider movement of opinion in biological science.
Evolutionary research is 5 more years down the line from the time of the debate. Margulis and McClintock's research has won the day in science and the selfish gene's narrative status sells books. There is not shred of evidence for Dawkin's armchair pronouncements and hence, Wilson has come around to the actual data.
 
This has gone quiet. My beef is with science narratives that won't wither in the face of overwhelming data. NeoDarwinism is one of these. You cannot get any more more "cold" and spiritless than Wilson's sociobiological worldview. Yet, he contradicts the selfish gene and acknowledges mental evolution because it is obviously factual and data based.
“Human nature is the ensemble of hereditary regularities in mental development that bias cultural evolution in one direction as opposed to others and thus connect genes to culture in the brain of every person.” - E. O. Wilson
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/10/books/edward-o-wilsons-the-meaning-of-human-existence.html
In context, this sentence is seen by a reviewer as "difficult" to parse. From my humble point of view, it is a professional attempt to report that nature is mindful and that mind effects evolution.
 
Not sure what your point is there, Malf. Are you suggesting that the girl in the video represents the views of people here?
 
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