Richard Cox, is 9/11 Deeply Spiritual? |428|

"Secret" and "need to know" have real meaning and includes excluding the FBI. Deliberately withholding information and intelligence silos are exactly what the DHS was supposed to rectify. You have to look at this operation in context. If it was SOP to share intel and let the FBI know about this kind of op, then you might have a point. However, it was not SOP before 911. Just another day in a disconnected, turf minded, dysfunctional IC.

I'll just zoom in on this one point Eric – it was standard operating procedure for the CIA to inform the both the National Security Coordinator (Richard Clarke) and the FBI of terrorists entering the United States, where the CIA has no jurisdiction to operate. That's the scandal. Even if we take the most benign interpretation of the CIA officers motivations possible (and I would suggest given the history of the relationship between the CIA and radical Islamists, we shouldn't jump to this) their actions in deliberately blocking this passage of information broke SOP and allowed the attacks to proceed. You don't have to take my word for that, you can listen to the FBI's Mark Rossini (who participated in the blockage and is wrought with guilt over it), or NSC Richard Clarke.
 
It should be obvious now that the deep state will decide whether or not who you elect to represent you is acceptable. So the Constitutional Republic is just about dead.
I agree, it's bad. one silver lining from US history is an appreciation it's always been "bad." maybe we can make it through.

All of that said, I still do not, nor will I ever, believe that 911 was a conspiracy ;-)
not sure what make a vet winking emoji at the end :)
 
911 conspiracy shouldn't be taken literally. It's a folk way of saying that the government is out of control
it could be all the things you were saying, but let's be clear, I'm saying ( I want speak for richard but I think he agrees) 9/11 was an inside job.

 
I have a close relative who died of Alzheimer's disease. And I know other people suffer greatly from other terminal illnesses. I have mixed feelings about euthanasia. All the spiritual sources including the ones I trust are against it, but as a physical person it seems to me the immoral thing is that governments make it illegal for those who want it.

One spiritual argument, which won't mean anything to materialists, but makes some sense to me is that you learn something from suffering. In the book "The Science of Enlightenment" by Shinzen Young, Shinzen tells of a meditation student of his whom he helped through the dying process, and how the student found observing his own suffering helped him understand and get over or feel atonement for difernt aspects of his life:



Logically I can think it is better to get your karma balanced while you are still living, but I could never force that that view on other people, and I don't know if I could go through with it myself if I had the choice. Maybe there is a hidden spiritual reason for our laws against euthanasia?

I can totally see there would be immense spiritual value in choosing to consciously go through suffering and dying. The key word for me there though is choosing, for many people the suffering is imposed. It also brings up questions for me about pain relief, we don't even question the value of that and wouldn't dream of denying it to someone suffering. When chloroform was first discovered however, people questions whether women giving birth should use it, as the Bible makes reference to Eve bringing forth children in suffering.

With regard to there being a spiritual reason behind the laws – I do think there's a prohibition against this that is very deeply woven into our psyches. For good reason too, history has shown when a society crosses that line it can be a very direct highway to hell!

There are however to many reductio ad absurdum's I can think of to be blanket against euthanasia. In Game of Thrones for example, there's a scene where Jon Snow fires an arrow into the heart of a man who is being burnt to death. In doing so we could say he deprived him of any potential spiritual growth to be found in an agonising death... but I don't think I'd go there.
 
we don't even question the value of that and wouldn't dream of denying it to someone suffering.

I agree with this, it's common sense. Unfortunately doctors and government regulators sometimes lack common sense. Patients (including terminally ill patients) have been denied pain medication because it is "addicting". Sometimes it is due to the doctors views, sometimes it is fear of laws against over prescribing.

https://www.healthsearchonline.com/doctors-prescribing-pain-medication/

Even if doctors fully understand how severe the pain is, they may be unwilling to prescribe narcotic-type drugs for fear of producing addiction in their patients.​
Many studies have shown that narcotics prescribed appropriately for pain relief are very unlikely to result in addiction (Harrison’s Principles of Internal Medicine, 14th Edition, p. 57).​
...​
Doctors are also worried about legal action against them if they are believed to be prescribing narcotics or other controlled substances too easily. Action can be taken by the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) to remove a doctor’s right to prescribe controlled substances, and also by state professional review organizations which can suspend or revoke a doctor’s license to practice.​
 
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I listened to this episode three times there is so much in it that wanted to get my head around. I appreciate Richards openness, and his willingness to go into areas that aren’t usually discussed.

I am not sure how to equate samadhi with the near death experience, but experiencers who have had a life review believe that every encounter has consequences for good or bad, how can a guru who can transmit samadhi not be concerned about karma when he abuses his followers. I can’t take on board the celebrity argument, perhaps part of the answer lies in the discussion about the unseen world. Wilson van Dusen in his book The Natural Depth in Man is one of the few people in the psychiatric profession willing to discuss the effect of spirits on people with schizophrenia and presumably on all of us, it’s just that they are more sensitive and aware of them, and George Ritchie talks about spirits who hang around this world for reasons of addiction or strong emotions in Return from Tomorrow. Just maybe spiritual leaders are targeted, who knows it really doesn’t make any sense to me. It’s worth reading Ephesians 6 v12.

New Living Translation says
For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world and against evil spirits in the heavenly places.

The psychotherapist Jerry Marzinski believed that was the case Maggie, that malevolent entities specifically target spiritual teachers due to the wider demoralising effect of bringing such a person down. I personally believe a lot could also be explained by the personality type that is attracted to becoming a guru, and the effect of having people around you who believe you are infallible. It has to be a corrupting influence.

What Alex brought up was the question of the role such entities play in influencing people in power and shaping world events. If you cross the line of accepting the reality of such beings, that they are doing that (and represent the true power behind the throne) seems to become an inevitable conclusion. I haven't made much more headway with it than that though.
 
A close relative of mine discussed suicide with my husband, he was dying of cancer from a tumour in his spine which meant that he was also partially paralysed and his pain could not be controlled. He had a strong faith but his reason for wanting to do so was that his illness was causing his family so much suffering. My husband felt that suicide could cause even more trauma and suggested that the next time he got an infection he refused any drugs. I think the reason for committing suicide must be important, through the ages there have been societies where suicide was the honourable thing to do.
 
it could be all the things you were saying, but let's be clear, I'm saying ( I want speak for richard but I think he agrees) 9/11 was an inside job.


I don't want to cover this ground again. We beat it to death a while ago. Suffice it to say that you can speculate away, but you have no proof. You're just connecting dots so as to tell a story that you want to be true.

I would say at most - I don't believe this - but maybe, just maybe they thought they'd allow a small bombing or something. No one imagined the spectacular destruction and death of 911. But there is 0 proof. I've seen enough bureaucratic incompetence to make that the far more likely explanation.

CIA guys are either former military special this or that or recruited from Ivy League. It's the Ivy League guys that tend to end up making decisions. The former mil guys are more on the rough edges. The IL guys are arrogant, way too self-assured, and lack exposure to certain realities of life (e.g. that jihadist really means it). They don't believe they can be played.
 
it could be all the things you were saying, but let's be clear, I'm saying ( I want speak for richard but I think he agrees) 9/11 was an inside job.


As I always say about this story and others, like the military industrial is driving things because of profits.....the vulture does a happy dance every time a car hits an animal. It doesn't mean that the vulture was driving the car or influencing the driver.
 

I mean I don't want to argue conspiracy v screw ups v shit happens.

I am interested in the spiritual aspect of it - something I really hadn't thought about before this interview.

I know a little something about the international war on drugs. IMO the war on terrorism served the same purpose; as does the war on climate change, poverty or anything else. These are all excuses for the deep state to grow and to control our lives more. They are all interconnected too on an international level.

My perspective on spirituality is you have to do it yourself - with a little help from your friends (true friends). Don't follow leaders, churches, gurus or any of that. All of these organizations metastasize into mind control, restriction of freedoms and physical control. The government is the same. It comes with smiles saying it will help you, but there is always a high price. People, being people, love power. It seems to be irresistible. IMO, it is the devil at work.

IMO, conspiracy theories are trying to express that realization.

There really is a huge conspiracy, but it is not factually what theorists say it is in most cases. Its actually worse than 9/11 or Kennedy. That's child's play compared to psychic slavery of gigantic masses of humanity. Also, the conspiracy isn't usually a conscious thing, even to the leading actors. They're all ultimately tools of larger powers/forces. They are not in control of themselves; not fully anyhow. This is all about light v dark, love v control, reality from the soul v a simulacrum controlled by greedy hollow people, individual strength v weakness.
 
Great show. This is EXACTLY why i love Skeptiko! This is where i want to see the 9/11 story go. I've so badly wanted a "level 3" 9/11 discussion and i finally see it going in that direction.
The question of 911's effect on mass consciousness is so interesting. As far as i am concerned the spiritual or other wordly component of the event is undeniable. I consider the pre-cognitive trickle of world trade center attacks or the date and numbers 9/11 into popular culture and mass media preceeding the event (the pilot episode of The Lone Gunmen
and Back 2 the Future
being seminal examples) as strong evidance to suggest there is something much larger and perhaps spookier at play with the events of Sept. 11th.
9/11 (and just about everything else) can be seen through the eyes of several types of people. Level one, the general population, probably view it much the same as they do ET and UFOs; not even on their radar. The general population dosnt consider them to be significant. Level two believes there is something there. Building 7, free fall speed, nano thermite etc are much like the nuts and bolts obsessed ufo community. Then there is a much smaller third group that sees them (9/11 ET UFO )for what they are; significant events and componets of our reality interacting with and effected by other worldly forces which manifest themselves in our reality in profound ways.


Well, now we've gone off the deep end :).

It might be helpful to divide this into two (related) phenomenon. The first is mundane and understandable to a good degree. The Pentagon, CIA and a host of other entities 'partner' with Hollywood and use film and other mediums to influence the minds of the public. I particularly like the work of Tom Secker has done on this topic, in his book National Security Cinema and on his podcast. He cautions that the reasons why these narratives appear may not be obvious, and that foreshadows of conspiracies may be interjected in a way that is deliberately misleading. I am also convinced that conspiracy theory plays a role in the cover up of State crimes.

This might account for The Lone Gunman episode (although we simply don't know), but then we go off the deep end into with your Back to the Future video.

I must be honest, I really have no idea where to even start with this. In addition to the video you posted I also watched the Back to the Future Secret Symbolism Myths & Archetypes one. It's excellent, totally compelling that the films contain references to Greek mythology and the battle between Zeus and Chronos. And indeed why wouldn't it! As the 9/11 video went on I found it more and more compelling, but utterly mystifying!

It leads me to a contradiction. I would have to believe that such a level of symbolism has been consciously placed, it cannot have arisen solely from some deep aspect of the mind unconsciously creeping through. But I cannot believe such symbolism could have been consciously placed. I can't see how anyone in 1985 could have knowledge of 9/11 (obviously).

What I have trouble with is marrying this seemingly high level of order with the apparent randomness of life. The The Trade Centres themselves, we are led to believe, nearly came crashing down on February 26th 1993, when Ramzi Yousef bombed them*. Had he used a bigger bomb or placed it differently one would could have fallen on the other causing tens or hundreds of thousands of deaths. Would we then be seeing 02/26 symbolism in films? Indeed the Citibank building in Manhattan nearly fell down due to a design flaw (people in the Truth movement talk about it as it was covertly retrofitted) in what would have been potentially a bigger disaster than 9/11.

It's worth noting also that the CIA backed coup that overthrew Salvador Allende in Chile happened on September 11th 1973, George H.W. Bush made his New World Order speech on September 11th 1990, and the Berlin Wall came down on 9th November 1989, making that 9/11 in the European style of writing.

So what do you think is going on here? Is there a secret order that has foreknowledge of world events years in advance and symbolises them in films. Is there a collective unconscious working through writers? Are there non-human entities channelling warnings to us (which next to no one picks up on) through writers? Does this only occur in big budget films? If we were to analysis ten years of Skeptiko episodes would we find symbolic codes that Alex was unaware of?

These are the questions I would love to be asking (in a way that doesn't drive me insane or just lead round in circles), but it's very difficult to know where to start.

* I am aware there is a deeper story to the 93 bombing.
 
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Isn’t there a “spirituality” of everything? The more I study these topics the more difficult it is for me to understand what exactly is meant by spirituality. I think by the standard definition everybody is spiritual and every action is spiritual in the sense that we all are eternal consciousness mired in a spiritual dimension. If a particular “afterlife” realm is spiritual, then it isn’t any more or less spiritual than our current universe. When somebody asks me if I’m spiritual I just say yes, as I assume they are wanting to know if I’m a materialist or not.

I’m trying not to ramble. I really want to understand what is meant by the proposed question. I would say that whatever happens and has consequences of any sort is spiritual. So if I understand the question, my answer is a huge yes. Of course it is.

It’s hard to know what to make of the idea that everybody signs up for every challenge in their life. I’m more comfortable with the idea that we can make general plans but that things can and do go awry. But when something does go awry, according to plan, certainly lessons can still be taken from it and growth can still occur if the experience is integrated properly.
 
Isn’t there a “spirituality” of everything? The more I study these topics the more difficult it is for me to understand what exactly is meant by spirituality. I think by the standard definition everybody is spiritual and every action is spiritual in the sense that we all are eternal consciousness mired in a spiritual dimension. If a particular “afterlife” realm is spiritual, then it isn’t any more or less spiritual than our current universe. When somebody asks me if I’m spiritual I just say yes, as I assume they are wanting to know if I’m a materialist or not.

I’m trying not to ramble. I really want to understand what is meant by the proposed question. I would say that whatever happens and has consequences of any sort is spiritual. So if I understand the question, my answer is a huge yes. Of course it is.

It’s hard to know what to make of the idea that everybody signs up for every challenge in their life. I’m more comfortable with the idea that we can make general plans but that things can and do go awry. But when something does go awry, according to plan, certainly lessons can still be taken from it and growth can still occur if the experience is integrated properly.

Right. What isn't spiritual? If we are first and foremost consciousness and our will is behind all we perceive and do, then all is spiritual.

It is a mistake to think that there is a non-spiritual me, thought, action. Every thought, action, perception is spiritual. It cannot be anything else.

When people talk about "being spiritual" they are referring to a mind control club; group think, a cult. Screw that. Don't let assholes idiots define what you are. There's lots of them out there. And they like to control everything they can. Even The Buddha.
 
Richard, Anthony Storrs book Feet of Clay which is a study on gurus is well worth reading, It’s an old book but still relevant.

I believe that If we were truly aware of everything unseen that influences us we wouldn’t be able to function, on a mundane level it could be higher frequencies of sound or subtle aromas, animals and insects have a greater awareness because they need it to survive, perhaps we lost this ability long ago, although people in war situations talk about the smell of fear. Alex questioning whether entities are influencing people of power and world events is valid, but scary. Perhaps we should all be aware of the personality types and childhood backgrounds of people who are attracted to positions of power especially the charismatic ones. The only safe people to hold power are those that don’t want it.
 
Thank you Richard Cox for putting me on to the site, i thoroughly enjoyed the interview Skeptiko did with you. It was a very enlightening and informative episode. Im open for any 9/11 questions anyone may have. Richard Cox and myself have just completed the Roads to 9/11 Series and we are currently in the beginning stages of our podcast "The Darkened Hour".
 
One thing that never seems to fit, is that several members of the Bin Laden family were spirited out of the US while all other flights were grounded!

Richard - can you provide any links corresponding to the various assertions you have made.


That would have been true of the theories that suggest that the buildings were deliberately brought down by explosives, but a conspiracy that allowed some people to avoid arrest would be far more probable precisely because far fewer people would have been involved.

David

In regards to the Bin Laden family being allowed to leave the country while aircraft were still grounded, this is not entirely accurate. They were allowed to leave on chartered flights on Sept 13th 2001 and in the immediate days after the FAA gave the approval for domestic flights to begin travel. Vanity Fair did a very extensive piece regarding certain high level Saudi's, including U.S-Saudi Ambassador, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, father being one of them allowed to leave.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2003/10/saving-the-saudis-200310
 
In regards to the Bin Laden family being allowed to leave the country while aircraft were still grounded, this is not entirely accurate. They were allowed to leave on chartered flights on Sept 13th 2001 and in the immediate days after the FAA gave the approval for domestic flights to begin travel. Vanity Fair did a very extensive piece regarding certain high level Saudi's, including U.S-Saudi Ambassador, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, father being one of them allowed to leave.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2003/10/saving-the-saudis-200310
Is there any strong evidence about the involvement of Israel, whether they helped in planning or merely had foreknowledge?
 
Is there any strong evidence about the involvement of Israel, whether they helped in planning or merely had foreknowledge?

No.

Look the whole idea that the CIA or Israel was behind the attack is urban myth. So some guys googling around have uncovered the plot, but the American intelligence community remains ignorant of it? Alternatively, the American IC in its entirety is ok with some of their people going rogue and attacking the country and killing 3,000 citizens and blowing up important structures?

These agencies do contain a heck of a lot of patriots. You don't think that the people involved with assisting jihadists killing Americans on American soil (and attacking the Pentagon nonetheless!) wouldn't be punished severely - like tried for treason or simply killed? Come on. It's all silly on its face.

BTW, I like with all of these conspiracy theorists from the UK or Australia it's always the CIA, but never MI5/6. In reality the British intelligence and the US intelligence agencies are two peas in a pod. They work very closely together.

Brits should look into their 77th Brigade.
 
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