john.sundog
New
Yes, I know the thread title is loaded. The only people in favor of consistently abrasive behavior are, I most sincerely hope, those who habitually engage in it, and perhaps not even them. Some others tolerate it with various degrees of good will or grudging resignation. Those two groups, the few irritators and the larger group of tolerators, by definition make up the long-term membership of the Skeptiko Forum.
But how many others are there who do not tolerate it for long? Alex goes to a great deal of effort producing his podcasts and additional effort to entice new potential members to the forum. How many come, experience the rancor, then silently leave, never to return, the whole process essentially invisible to the forum's existing members and administrators? And how many of those might have made valuable ongoing contributions had they stayed? How many might have been the kind of people you enjoy spending time with, potential friends?
To be clear, I'm not talking here about inhibiting lively debate, including the snipes, sarcastic comments, and fits of pique most of us engage in from time to time - one hopes at rare intervals. Those things happen, and sometimes the aggressors cool down and quickly repair the situation openly or with private communications the rest of us don't see.
It's true that hard-core skeptics were the main problem in the old forum; in some cases their skepticism was interwoven with a taunting sarcasm - to annoy was likely their main goal - but as the intentionally annoying skeptics have damped down, a residuum of a very few abrasive individuals begins to stand out, people who are not materialists, perhaps are even valuable contributors. When these people taunt or otherwise offend, what can be their goal? I can't fathom it, but I think it may just be the sort of unconscious bad habit that grows, if left unpruned, in the dark anonymity of the web. Of course we all know that by web standards of conduct the new Skeptiko forum is doing relatively well but it seems some important improvement can still be gained with only a little additional effort, and it seems this is the time.
By now it's probably clear that I have a low threshold of pain when it comes to dealing with abrasive behavior - I burned out quickly on the old forum and bailed, just another invisible casualty, and the barbs weren't even directed at me. Whether or not that was any loss to that forum in any way cannot be known, and I don't claim that it was, but I know it was some loss to me that I reluctantly accepted as the lesser evil, for my peace of mind. The important question here is, was I a rare case, or one of many? I rather think the latter.
This time around, with a wave of reform currently washing over the Forum, I thought it might be time to engage the system, add another bucketful to the wave. (Sorry about the metaphors - I've been reading William James). A more experienced forum member tells me this has been tried before, without success, so he has found an individual way to minimize the distraction. The ignore button is currently the recommended approach, and some members use it liberally to preserve their equanimity. But why should they have to? The ignore button seems to me rather like a hammer, when a scalpel, or even just a bit of sandpaper, is needed. Some thoughtlessly rude people make otherwise valuable contributions - I don't want to simply eliminate them from my reading. So let me rephrase the thread title: Who's in favor of generally civil behavior as the default tone here? What's the downside? A few individuals are denied their cheap kicks at the expense of others? At the end of the day, they too may find they enjoy a mutually considerate atmosphere.
This is not the old forum but rather the New Skeptiko Forum, and right now is the time to fashion it in a way most congenial to the majority. If the will to do so exists, how can it be most effectively accomplished? I suspect a simple mechanism, requiring only a little tweaking of the existing system, can be devised to improve this situation greatly, perhaps a slight adjustment of the system that is currently being used with some notable success against obstructive skeptics. But there I plead inexperience and defer to the more experienced members to sketch out an approach.
Please weigh in with your thoughts.
But how many others are there who do not tolerate it for long? Alex goes to a great deal of effort producing his podcasts and additional effort to entice new potential members to the forum. How many come, experience the rancor, then silently leave, never to return, the whole process essentially invisible to the forum's existing members and administrators? And how many of those might have made valuable ongoing contributions had they stayed? How many might have been the kind of people you enjoy spending time with, potential friends?
To be clear, I'm not talking here about inhibiting lively debate, including the snipes, sarcastic comments, and fits of pique most of us engage in from time to time - one hopes at rare intervals. Those things happen, and sometimes the aggressors cool down and quickly repair the situation openly or with private communications the rest of us don't see.
It's true that hard-core skeptics were the main problem in the old forum; in some cases their skepticism was interwoven with a taunting sarcasm - to annoy was likely their main goal - but as the intentionally annoying skeptics have damped down, a residuum of a very few abrasive individuals begins to stand out, people who are not materialists, perhaps are even valuable contributors. When these people taunt or otherwise offend, what can be their goal? I can't fathom it, but I think it may just be the sort of unconscious bad habit that grows, if left unpruned, in the dark anonymity of the web. Of course we all know that by web standards of conduct the new Skeptiko forum is doing relatively well but it seems some important improvement can still be gained with only a little additional effort, and it seems this is the time.
By now it's probably clear that I have a low threshold of pain when it comes to dealing with abrasive behavior - I burned out quickly on the old forum and bailed, just another invisible casualty, and the barbs weren't even directed at me. Whether or not that was any loss to that forum in any way cannot be known, and I don't claim that it was, but I know it was some loss to me that I reluctantly accepted as the lesser evil, for my peace of mind. The important question here is, was I a rare case, or one of many? I rather think the latter.
This time around, with a wave of reform currently washing over the Forum, I thought it might be time to engage the system, add another bucketful to the wave. (Sorry about the metaphors - I've been reading William James). A more experienced forum member tells me this has been tried before, without success, so he has found an individual way to minimize the distraction. The ignore button is currently the recommended approach, and some members use it liberally to preserve their equanimity. But why should they have to? The ignore button seems to me rather like a hammer, when a scalpel, or even just a bit of sandpaper, is needed. Some thoughtlessly rude people make otherwise valuable contributions - I don't want to simply eliminate them from my reading. So let me rephrase the thread title: Who's in favor of generally civil behavior as the default tone here? What's the downside? A few individuals are denied their cheap kicks at the expense of others? At the end of the day, they too may find they enjoy a mutually considerate atmosphere.
This is not the old forum but rather the New Skeptiko Forum, and right now is the time to fashion it in a way most congenial to the majority. If the will to do so exists, how can it be most effectively accomplished? I suspect a simple mechanism, requiring only a little tweaking of the existing system, can be devised to improve this situation greatly, perhaps a slight adjustment of the system that is currently being used with some notable success against obstructive skeptics. But there I plead inexperience and defer to the more experienced members to sketch out an approach.
Please weigh in with your thoughts.