What's it like to be dead?

[Bucky]

In your opinion, Bertha Huse, what scientific experiment, using secure information, could I conduct today, in March 2015, that would demonstrate the existence of psi to me by the end of the month (or being generous, by the end of the year?).

This is curious... I clearly recall having read several posts of yours in support of the super-esp theory for which you seemed a proponent, referring to S. Braude's speculations in the context of the survival hypothesis.

It goes back to the previous forum and I recall you had your obscure way of calling it "unconscious connectionism". :D :D

So why are you asking for conclusive experiments for the existence of PSI when you have already proposed your own flavor of not just psi, but super-psi?

 

[Kai]

This is curious... I clearly recall having read several posts of yours in support of the super-esp theory for which you seemed a proponent, referring to S. Braude's speculations in the context of the survival hypothesis.

It goes back to the previous forum and I recall you had your obscure way of calling it "unconscious connectionism". :D :D

So why are you asking for conclusive experiments for the existence of PSI when you have already proposed your own flavor of not just psi, but super-psi?

I haven't.
I simply don't close possibilities entirely. But that doesn't mean I think we have empirical evidence either.

 

[Bucky]

I haven't.
I simply don't close possibilities entirely. But that doesn't mean I think we have empirical evidence either.

Young children of 3-4 years of age remembering detailed past lives that are validated by numerous matching facts must be some form of psi.

Typically the counter argument to "survivalism" is that super-esp and some form of "akashic record" must have conspired to create the narrative.

 

[Kai]

Young children of 3-4 years of age remembering detailed past lives that are validated by numerous matching facts must be some form of psi.

Typically the counter argument to "survivalism" is that super-esp and some form of "akashic record" must have conspired to create the narrative.

I know you feel that they *must* be some form of psi Bucky (and I mean that sincerely) - it's just that I don't share your certainty. Acquiring these stories and the fashion in which they generate seems to be a very complex, sloppy social situation.

 

[Bertha Huse]

I know you feel that they *must* be some form of psi Bucky (and I mean that sincerely) - it's just that I don't share your certainty. Acquiring these stories and the fashion in which they generate seems to be a very complex, sloppy social situation.

Sloppy is assuming all these stories must be false.

My Best,
Bertha

 

[Bucky]

I know you feel that they *must* be some form of psi Bucky (and I mean that sincerely) - it's just that I don't share your certainty. Acquiring these stories and the fashion in which they generate seems to be a very complex, sloppy social situation.

Well, some explanation is in order (for those cases)
One can take all of the precautions that are necessary and accurately weigh all of the pieces of evidence, their context, the risk for "contamination" etc... etc... Certainty is not of this world, btw. :)

Most of those cases end up tipping the scale for the anomalous side, in a very decisive way. Unless you want to call conspiracy on each and every instance.

I don't think it's highly controversial that reincarnation cases provide evidence for anomalous information. Typically the contention is about the source of the anomaly.

The "Ryan" case documented by Jim Tucker in his latest book, is one of the many good examples that comes to mind.

 

[Kai]

Well, some explanation is in order (for those cases)
One can take all of the precautions that are necessary and accurately weigh all of the pieces of evidence, their context, the risk for "contamination" etc... etc... Certainty is not of this world, btw. :)

Most of those cases end up tipping the scale for the anomalous side, in a very decisive way. Unless you want to call conspiracy on each and every instance.

I don't think it's highly controversial that reincarnation cases provide evidence for anomalous information. Typically the contention is about the source of the anomaly.

The "Ryan" case documented by Jim Tucker in his latest book, is one of the many good examples that comes to mind.

I do think that something is going on, certainly. Not sure I'm convinced it's "anomalous" though.

 

[Bucky]

I do think that something is going on, certainly. Not sure I'm convinced it's "anomalous" though.

Explain how a children of 5 can provide the detailed life events of an obscure movie extra from the 40s that not even experts were able to identify. It required researchers multiple consultations with specialists of the field, and multiple trips to the library of the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences, to finally identify the actor.

I think it's pretty difficult to avoid the "anomaly". Be it an elaborate scam of two psychopaths (the parents) and their brainwashed child or, at the very minimum, a case of multiple psi instances.

 

[Typoz]

I don't think it's highly controversial that reincarnation cases provide evidence for anomalous information. Typically the contention is about the source of the anomaly.

It's also worth adding that reincarnation cases provide evidence for anomalous experience, such as emotions or attitudes, which are not simply 'facts' that can be found in a book etc.

 

[Bucky]

It's also worth adding that reincarnation cases provide evidence for anomalous experience, such as emotions or attitudes, which are not simply 'facts' that can be found in a book etc.

Oh, I hear you.
But considering that 'skeptics' even dismiss 'facts', I didn't even bring it up.

 

[Typoz]

Oh, I hear you.
But considering that 'skeptics' even dismiss 'facts', I didn't even bring it up.

Sure, I can understand that. But the reason why I mentioned it was because facts might be considered as merely a transfer of data by some means or other. The things I'm referring to are much harder to explain away - that is, if one looks at the evidence impartially. It leads towards the conclusion not merely that one is 'tuning in' to another being, but rather that there is a sense of having the same identity.

Sorry about this distraction, I don't think this adds directly to the discussion, since one must walk before one tries to run, but I felt it worth mentioning as background information.

 

[Kai]

Explain how a children of 5 can provide the detailed life events of an unknown, uncredited movie extra from the 40s that not even experts were able to identify. It required researchers multiple consultations with specialists of the field, and multiple trips to the library of the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences, to finally identify the actor.

I think it's pretty difficult to avoid the "anomaly". Be it an elaborate scam of two psychopaths (the parents) and their brainwashed child or, at the very minimum, a case of multiple psi instances.

I don't know what is happening in these kind of cases, Bucky. But I do know that they are emerging from an *extremely* unsecured information ecology.

 

[Bertha Huse]

I don't know what is happening in these kind of cases, Bucky. But I do know that they are emerging from an *extremely* unsecured information ecology.

"Unsecured information ecology" = fancy term for whatever a Skeptic can come up with to pretend the elephant is not an elephant in the room.

My Best,
Bertha

 

[Ian Gordon]

Explain how a children of 5 can provide the detailed life events of an unknown, uncredited movie extra from the 40s that not even experts were able to identify. It required researchers multiple consultations with specialists of the field, and multiple trips to the library of the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences, to finally identify the actor.

Bucky, I just did some research on this, and posted my findings here instead:
http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threa...e-of-past-life-memories.545/page-3#post-61215

 

[Kai]

I do think these cases warrant study, but I also think that the studies need to be aware of other socio-cultural possibilities with respect to them. I doubt that it is (usually) simply fraud, but again I get a distinct sense of something "gaming" this situation, to try to get us to fall for reincarnation. It's as if there's a kind of socio-cultural layer of mind that plays these tricks on us.

 

[Bucky]

I do think these cases warrant study, but I also think that the studies need to be aware of other socio-cultural possibilities with respect to them. I doubt that it is (usually) simply fraud, but again I get a distinct sense of something "gaming" this situation, to try to get us to fall for reincarnation. It's as if there's a kind of socio-cultural layer of mind that plays these tricks on us.

We were talking about psi (and his bigger brother super-psi), so I was asking if cases like these aren't enough evidence of psi instances?

Reincarnation or not, that might be a second stage of the discussion.

I am not sure how "socio-cultural layers" can provide information to a child about an obscure Hollywood extra who had met a senator (Senator Ives) from New York back in the '40s. Information which the child reported and was only known by the close relatives of the actor in question.

 

[Kai]

We were talking about psi (and his bigger brother super-psi), so I was asking if cases like these aren't enough evidence of psi instances?

Reincarnation or not, that might be a second stage of the discussion.

I am not sure how "socio-cultural layers" can provide information to a child about an obscure Hollywood extra who had met a senator (Senator Ives) from New York back in the '40s. Information which the child reported and was only known by the close relatives of the actor in question.

Well, because the information is not being tracked or gathered in anything approaching a secure way, the mind has the opportunity to lean it in the direction that it wants. I mean, I could come up with random "reincarnation memories" and with enough loosely defined research, someone in the world is going to correspond nontrivially to what I said. I'm not saying that's all there is to it, but I do think that the way information is being processed through culture is heavily involved.

 

[Bertha Huse]

Well, because the information is not being tracked or gathered in anything approaching a secure way, the mind has the opportunity to lean it in the direction that it wants. I mean, I could come up with random "reincarnation memories" and with enough loosely defined research, someone in the world is going to correspond nontrivially to what I said. I'm not saying that's all there is to it, but I do think that the way information is being processed through culture is heavily involved.

Minds do not arbitrarily and magically lean one-way when it is convenient for a Skeptic to assume they do.

My Best,
Bertha

 

[Kai]

We were talking about psi (and his bigger brother super-psi), so I was asking if cases like these aren't enough evidence of psi instances?
.

I think they could be considered prima facie evidence, Bucky. But the rub there, is that they might also be prima facie evidence of other things.

 

[Haruhi]

You are the one derailing threads.
And no...you were not able to provide any examples of the kind requested, either here or in any other conversations you have participated in.

You who this derailing this and other threads.

And yes, I can present convincing evidence for psi / afterlife, but it does not convince you. This is a waste of time.