David Bailey
Member
great. do you have any specific links handy?
http://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/death-bed-visions-301825.html
David
great. do you have any specific links handy?
Yes, it does help.Alex's questions at the end of the podcast:
What do you make of Dr. Piero Calvi-Parisetti's claim that education about near death experience science and after death communication can help the bereaved in a measurable way? Can it actually be a treatment that would rival drugs or conventional psychotherapy?
I think there is certainly a grain of truth in what Alex said (together with some exaggeration)!
Wait, your argument is that materialism aims to convince people not to kill themselves in order that they continue to buy stuff, and live to a ripe old age and so will purchase more health related services?I don't think that claiming that materialism is beneficial to all sorts of industries is an exaggeration.
1- It keeps those that are miserable, but too afraid of oblivion, away from taking the "fast way out" (suicide) by emphasizing that "there is nothing more".
2- Thus, those people are kept in the system; they work for a living and at the very least invest in the essentials (I disagree that materialism by de facto means that people will engage in insatiable consumerism, but even the basics keep the economy moving), which means that the corresponding industries are benefited for years. Capitalism needs a healthy population to run smoothly and a *lot* of people are miserable, so its better safe than sorry.
3- As they age, their health will decline and the very fear that kept them away from suicide during their youth will throw them into the arms of our health system (which is, unfortunately, seen more as a business than a service) and -consequently- into Big Pharma (this is, excluding those that are diagnosed with some mental condition, they enter this phase much earlier).
Wait, your argument is that materialism aims to convince people not to kill themselves in order that they continue to buy stuff, and live to a ripe old age and so will purchase more health related services?
Yes. Take the case of multiple personality. A friend of mine who is a psychologist has a patient like this. BTW, this same psychologist friend was fascinated (not dismissive) when I told her I had had one NDE and several OBE's. She was very curious about the phenomenon and wanted to know everything I could tell her. Also, two days before my husband passed he woke up in the AM and wanted to know "who are those people over there"...he pointed to the patio doors. I told him they were probably there to help him and perhaps he should go towards them.I think there is certainly a grain of truth in what Alex said (together with some exaggeration)!
When you read Irreducible Mind, I think it will make you wonder just how much we really understand of the human body, because it would seem that in extreme (but well documented) cases the mind can control the body in amazing ways.
David
Although I agree that the subject of NDE's should be helpful to those close to death, or to their loved ones, I don't think it always is.
A friend of mine had to endure the protracted death of his wife from cancer. While she was still alive, I decided to talk to him (on his own) about NDE's, and what they presumably mean. Unfortunately, it was a huge mistake, and he got quite upset about the subject - so I said I would not mention the subject again unless he did, and so far he hasn't.
I may, of course, simply not be good at such conversations.
David
Well, unfortunately there is another side to medicine. For example, I was given Simvastatin on a purely preventative basis. I was very positive about the idea - it seemed like a good way to keep healthy and live longer. After 3 years I got really nasty muscle problems that nearly stopped me walking (at least out doors). I was extraordinarily lucky to discover that despite the delay, this was a reaction to the statin. I will tell you more details by PM if you are interested. What amazed me, was that despite the fact that there were researchers claiming that statin side effects were probably placebo effects, I found numbers of people of about my age who had had nasty problems with these drugs - simply by chatting to people, not using the internet. There is a whole movement, lead by dissident doctors, pushing to limit the use of those drugs but they are a multi-billion dollar money spinner.This simply tells you that dealing with real patients in real life is different from posting ideas on Internet forums. Clinical medicine and its numerous aspects is slightly more complicated from armchair research.
That's why I find Alex''s rant about Barking dogs and money hungry mainstream medicine unfortunate (as well as unnecessary).
I find it amusing too though. Whenever something serious happens all doctor bathers, withi virtually no exceptions, come to us, mainstream medicine that's apparently only interested in making money. Not homeopaths, herbalists or mind-body healers.
Indeed. Three years ago a marathon running friend suspected himself of having a hernia. He presented himself to the doctor who assured him he hadn't and was suffering from a severe infection of the water works and put him on a course of antibiotics. Cut a long story short he began to feel very ill, which the doctor insisted was absolutely in line with his diagnosis and to keep taking the prescribed pills. Four months later he couldn't lift his arms above his waist and was reduced to getting about on a child's scooter as walking was impossible.Well, unfortunately there is another side to medicine.
Fortunately in my case I recovered completely over about 9 months, but I gather there are people who don't recover properly from statin side effects.His health is a shadow of what it was, certainly no running never mind marathons
I find it amusing too though. Whenever something serious happens all doctor bathers, withi virtually no exceptions, come to us, mainstream medicine that's apparently only interested in making money. Not homeopaths, herbalists or mind-body healers.
Ethan, what alternative cancer treatments are you talking about?
A friend is a member of the Johnson and Johnson family and has been tangentially associated with their cancer research section. She asked one of the older researchers what he would do if diagnosed with cancer...his response...."I would get the best pain meds"....and that was all.correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't there a survey where a large majority of oncologists said they would not prescribe their own conventional lines of treatment to their own family and loved ones.
I agree.....belief in survival is the only one consistent with human nature. We cannot imagine not existing at all, therefore we can only surmise some variety of continuity. Countering such a belief relies on intellectual complexity at the expense of other human traits, which at times of grief are immensely more rewarding, and that's before we look at the evidence of NDEs, crisis apparitions and other testimony in more measured circumstances.
I don't think that is a fair way to argue. Obviously anyone in that position would be torn all sorts of ways. For what it is worth, I gave up all screening tests a few years back (there are a fair few on offer when you get into your 60's), because there are increasing reports that these do more harm than good. If I remember right, this problem is discussed in the "Doctoring Data" book I recommended to you.Ethan, let's consider this hypothetical scenario. Say, you have a colonoscopy and get diagnosed with the early colon cancer. Will you go to the surgeon to cut it out or Honey Kingdom for their treatments? Just curious.
http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2016/06/story-man-not-feel-well.htmlThis simply tells you that dealing with real patients in real life is different from posting ideas on Internet forums. Clinical medicine and its numerous aspects is slightly more complicated from armchair research.
That's why I find Alex''s rant about Barking dogs and money hungry mainstream medicine unfortunate (as well as unnecessary).
I find it amusing too though. Whenever something serious happens all doctor bathers, withi virtually no exceptions, come to us, mainstream medicine that's apparently only interested in making money. Not homeopaths, herbalists or mind-body healers.
Ethan, let's consider this hypothetical scenario. Say, you have a colonoscopy and get diagnosed with the early colon cancer. Will you go to the surgeon to cut it out or Honey Kingdom for their treatments? Just curious.