227. Continued... continued... feedback on new forum

#42
you get your wish :) pls take a week off from posting on the Skeptiko forum. send me an email if you want to come back.
Just an FYI...Paul sent me an email asking what had happened. Apparently suspended members can't read the forum, so suspended members won't be able to get your message (if sent in this manner).

Linda
 
#43
So, the final step in this process will be to flag dialog-draining posts with a red Mod+ flag (only Andy or I can issue, but anyone can suggest). If someone gets one these then we're asking them not to do anymore posting in the thread. But the real goal is to stop these keep these posts out of the Mod+ threads in the first place. We'll have to see how it goes... but I think it might be a move in the right direction.
Would the red flag be given only in Mod+ threads (I'm assuming so)?

I'd suggest that you consider a two-step process, where the first red flag is a warning and a second offense would result in a thread-ban. Ideally, the warning flag would be accompanied by a PM spelling out why the warning was issued.

I realize this would mean more work for the mods, but maybe you could use "form letters" and predetermined categories of infractions ("Asked and answered", etc.) to speed up the process on your end.

Pat
 
#44
I wish you would reconsider that policy.

For various reasons, it can be useful to have access to all old posts, whether by active or banned members.

Pat
Sorry, trolls like to see their posts live on after they are gone. By removing posts, they lose an incentive to post, and others lose incentive to respond to posts that are violating the rules of the forum. In addition, it cleans up the forum.

AP
 
#45
TOR makes it impossible to ban IP addresses, which is necessary for getting rid of trolls. The best thing your friend can do is to either use someone else's computer who won't mind being traced, or get a cheap computer to use just for this purpose and keep all personal information off of it and get an anonymous hotmail email account to register. It will be possible to trace this person to the general area in which they live, but not to them specifically except by court order depending on their nation's laws.
Just a quick comment on this one ... getting a cheap computer won't help with the IP address if you use it from the same address. The IP is issued by the ISP and is sometimes static (permanent - for as long as you are with that ISP) or dynamic (meaning the IP is allocated when your router logs in and can change the next time you log in). You can have any number of email addresses and it doesn't matter what computer you use, especially the online services like gmail and hotmail. As mentioned, it is difficult to impossible to trace an IP to a specific address (without the help of the ISP). The best you can manage is a geographic area - usually pointing to the regional office of the ISP.
 

Alex

Administrator
#46
This is probably a dumb question, but if two or more people are involved in one of these dialog-draining threads, who gets the red flag? Or will it just automatically be the "Associate"?

Please note, I'm not asking because I intend to get involved. I think it's a very good idea to separate these discussions, and to stay away from discussions which won't be what I am looking for.

Linda
well, I'm thinking this might allow us to do away with the "Associate" designation that was causing so much grief. Everyone is either New or Member. Everyone can post anywhere, but if you're a mind=brain person you should avoid avoid posting the kinda skeptical stuff we're talking about in Mod+ threads.
 

Alex

Administrator
#47
That seems like it will be harder to moderate, but then again, I'm not a moderator. It's a difficult task and I hope it works out. We world class tightrope walking skeptics on this site.
I hope that everyone can cooperate a bit and reduce the moderation burden. Here's how I see it working:

1. everyone is a member (believers and skeptics)
2. when you create a new thread you can add the Mod+ prefix to it... at this point it's up to skeptics to check themselves a bit before posting here. I mean, we all gotta get real and acknowledge that we want to have a couple of different kinds of conversations here in the forum. Mod+ conversations are ones where we're already down the Skeptiko road... past the basic mind=brain kinda stuff. On the other hand, Mod+ shouldn't be used as a place to bash skeptics. if you want to hash that stuff out dialog leave Mod+ off your thread... and pls keep to the basic forum guidelines either way.
3. We're going to have multiple forums (we have two now), but they will just be a means to divide content... same rules everywhere.
4. we all share the job of creating the forum we want and communicating the principles and values to folks who join. there's a need for the kind of conversations we're trying to create (don't know where else to get them) so it's worth some effort to foster them.
 

Alex

Administrator
#48
Just an FYI...Paul sent me an email asking what had happened. Apparently suspended members can't read the forum, so suspended members won't be able to get your message (if sent in this manner).

Linda
they can't read even when not signed in???

BTW got an email from Paul... good to know he's coming back in a few days.
 

Alex

Administrator
#49
Would the red flag be given only in Mod+ threads (I'm assuming so)?

I'd suggest that you consider a two-step process, where the first red flag is a warning and a second offense would result in a thread-ban. Ideally, the warning flag would be accompanied by a PM spelling out why the warning was issued.

I realize this would mean more work for the mods, but maybe you could use "form letters" and predetermined categories of infractions ("Asked and answered", etc.) to speed up the process on your end.

Pat
I think that's too much work. thread ban (self-imposed) isn't that big of a deal... moreover, this whole thing will only work if we all cooperate with the bound-to-be-imperfect moderation.
 
#50
I hope that everyone can cooperate a bit and reduce the moderation burden. Here's how I see it working:

1. everyone is a member (believers and skeptics)
Does that mean the end of 'associate' status - if so, great!

2. when you create a new thread you can add the Mod+ prefix to it... at this point it's up to skeptics to check themselves a bit before posting here. I mean, we all gotta get real and acknowledge that we want to have a couple of different kinds of conversations here in the forum. Mod+ conversations are ones where we're already down the Skeptiko road... past the basic mind=brain kinda stuff. On the other hand, Mod+ shouldn't be used as a place to bash skeptics. if you want to hash that stuff out dialog leave Mod+ off your thread... and pls keep to the basic forum guidelines either way.
This sounds like a really great idea - sort of haven only in thread form. I hope Mod+ is fairly obvious when it is used.

3. We're going to have multiple forums (we have two now), but they will just be a means to divide content... same rules everywhere.
I'd love to see links between them at the top of each forum - it would help to bind them together - people can easily forget where BvS is!

4. we all share the job of creating the forum we want and communicating the principles and values to folks who join. there's a need for the kind of conversations we're trying to create (don't know where else to get them) so it's worth some effort to foster them.
Again I agree. As I see it, none of this is about preventing high quality skeptical debate, but there is useful skeptical debate and useless, destructive skeptical debate! It is worth pointing out that a small number of the people banned from the old forum, were seemingly 'believers', but they weren't participating usefully. This isn't a skeptic bashing exercise, even though many would like to portray it that way!

David
 
#51
This is probably a dumb question, but if two or more people are involved in one of these dialog-draining threads, who gets the red flag?
A lot of draining debates get that way because one author is unclear, or deliberately says as little as possible. I think the forum would be greatly improved if people could actually read what they are about to post and ensure it is as clear as they can possibly make it.

David
 
#52
I hope that everyone can cooperate a bit and reduce the moderation burden. Here's how I see it working:

1. everyone is a member (believers and skeptics)
2. when you create a new thread you can add the Mod+ prefix to it... at this point it's up to skeptics to check themselves a bit before posting here. I mean, we all gotta get real and acknowledge that we want to have a couple of different kinds of conversations here in the forum. Mod+ conversations are ones where we're already down the Skeptiko road... past the basic mind=brain kinda stuff. On the other hand, Mod+ shouldn't be used as a place to bash skeptics. if you want to hash that stuff out dialog leave Mod+ off your thread... and pls keep to the basic forum guidelines either way.
3. We're going to have multiple forums (we have two now), but they will just be a means to divide content... same rules everywhere.
4. we all share the job of creating the forum we want and communicating the principles and values to folks who join. there's a need for the kind of conversations we're trying to create (don't know where else to get them) so it's worth some effort to foster them.
I can live with this. And for the record I was never against having skeptic-free threads or even a skeptic-free sub-forum. I think there is a place for both kinds of discussion and its fair to say that they shouldn't necessarily overlap.

I think I do actually get where proponents are coming from. I'm hoping we can have some threads in BvS where we actually explore that head on - maybe try and get a bit more mutual understanding going on.

Alex: I appreciate you switching gears on this - and I hope you and I can have some substantive discussions over in B+S.

And thank you to all who have posted in support of myself and the other skeptics here. I really do feel that despite our differences, there is a community here and though we haven't met in person I consider many of you to be friends.
 
#53
they can't read even when not signed in???

BTW got an email from Paul... good to know he's coming back in a few days.
That's what Paul said, and he's
savvy enough to work this out...

Also, your new post makes the mod+ idea clearer, and it sounds like a good idea.

Linda
 
#54
On the forum side:

Alex, do you think you can bring the main Skeptiko page under the same header? Ie: putting it in the same form as the forum with the same header and buttons at the top to make it easy to switch back and forth? I know there's a button lower down, but if its easy to do that would make navigation easier between the Skeptiko main page and the rest of the forum.

Another suggestion: given that at present there are only two subforums maybe have a button for each of them on the main line rather than a button for forums and then having to pick there. If you start to add more subforums that might get to be a bit crowded but for now it will really help moving easily back and forth between the two.
 

Alex

Administrator
#55
On the forum side:

Alex, do you think you can bring the main Skeptiko page under the same header? Ie: putting it in the same form as the forum with the same header and buttons at the top to make it easy to switch back and forth? I know there's a button lower down, but if its easy to do that would make navigation easier between the Skeptiko main page and the rest of the forum.

Another suggestion: given that at present there are only two subforums maybe have a button for each of them on the main line rather than a button for forums and then having to pick there. If you start to add more subforums that might get to be a bit crowded but for now it will really help moving easily back and forth between the two.
working on different solutions to the nav issues.
 
#56
I love the Mod+ idea.

@Alex:
The tagging feature of XenForo is pretty useful. I would propose to at least create one more tag called "Podcast" (or similar) for categorizing all discussions related your interviews. This way it will be very easy to search them by tag via the search function.

Cheers
 
#57
I'm glad the "Associate" thing is cancelled.

Are evidence discussions allowed outside of BvS? Why I ask is because mind = brain or mind /= brain has no real bearing on discussions such as "How does telepathy function?" The answer could fall under both, because it only deals with information transfer and not where consciousness is located.

Sorry, trolls like to see their posts live on after they are gone.
Isn't it easy enough to check the post count and membership length? Obviously if the person has been around a long time they aren't just a troll, unless you only intend to ban trolls and only issue account suspensions to otherwise productive-but-sometimes-obnoxious members. I'm just imagining a productive debate making half as much sense when a third of the content replied to ups and disappears.
 

Alex

Administrator
#58
I love the Mod+ idea.

@Alex:
The tagging feature of XenForo is pretty useful. I would propose to at least create one more tag called "Podcast" (or similar) for categorizing all discussions related your interviews. This way it will be very easy to search them by tag via the search function.

Cheers
good idea... then again, I think I'm going to place all the podcast threads in one forum... will clean things up a bit.
 
#59
good idea... then again, I think I'm going to place all the podcast threads in one forum... will clean things up a bit.
Even better. Maybe you have already mentioned it elsewhere, and I didn't notice. I am feeling a little dizzy by jumping back and forth between the old forum's discussions and the new ones over here :D

cheers
 
#60
Another suggestion: given that at present there are only two subforums maybe have a button for each of them on the main line rather than a button for forums and then having to pick there. If you start to add more subforums that might get to be a bit crowded but for now it will really help moving easily back and forth between the two.
I see that's been implemented - great!

BTW, I really like the capability to embed videos in the posts.

Pat
 
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