Mod+ 233. MARY RODWELL WHICH EXTRAORDINARY HUMAN EXPERIENCES MATTER

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by alex.tsakiris, Dec 17, 2013.

  1. Juliano

    Juliano New

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
    Messages:
    21
    I started listening to this interview and in first part I was really into what she was saying and her open-,minded approach, but as soon as she suggested that people who are suffering in this world somehow CHOOSE this suffering for a 'soul journey' I went right off. Although she may not realize it, this is typical new age which I find deeply offensive. I am only speaking my mind. I am not saying censor her, or she has no right to say these views. I also would not storm off like she said Jacobs did when she contradicted him over lunch, but I would rather like to explain my position.
    Please understand that the powers that be would LOVE there be a myth that those THEY choose to oppress 'choose' their suffering. This idea is central to the Indian caste system which is the 'Karmic' myth. This goes that those who literally shovel shit are doing so for their karma. meanwhile those who aren't are at a higher level having worked through their soul journey, amd of course at top of this hierarchy are the gurus who are supposed to be highly enlightened beings, seen by some as gods. This myth cannot be proven or disposition but in reality is VERY dangerous, because it absolves guilt and responsibility of those who as said oppress others.
    I mean, what about other species? Are THEY working out their karma or choosing to suffer? Or is it more that there are evil greedy people with n o soul or empathy and who take take take. Are THEY highly evolved cause they take. Some of the lite I believe think they are gods, and this is because they are not only born into money and power, but also take pleasure in sadism and murder and war!!

    This myth is counter to the authentic Goddess myth also. As I say it is new age. the fact that people may experience this in 'deep states' does not make it the 'truth'. Reality IS people being oppressed. What individual would CHOOSE for a 'soul journey' to be born a monstrosity which can be caused by affects of DNA damage caused by depleted uranium etc? It is an abomination to assume anyone would choose suffering!
    So although I would not storm off talking with Mary Rodwell, we would have to agree to differ.
     
    Mishelle and malf like this.
  2. Stewart Lynch

    Stewart Lynch Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Messages:
    199
    What the soul chooses or doesn't choose shouldn't change how respond when we see suffering. I don't think a soul chooses to suffer, it just chooses the best situation available for whatever it is trying to achieve. And a soul certainly doesn't want to stay in a state of suffering. We should always try and relieve suffering wherever we find it.

    I agree with you that this concept of the soul choosing its life has been abused and used as an excuse for many wrongs, but I don't think that invalidates the idea of the soul choosing its life. This is a very subtle concept, and is mostly beyond our comprehension because we just can't see the bigger picture. If interpreted in a purely physical, on the surface level, as you have above, it can easily be twisted around by those who want to control others, and I agree with all your statements. I just think there is much more to it than that.

    Even if a persons soul has chooses a particular life, we shouldn't therefore assume that we know why it has chosen that life. And we shouldn't use it as an excuse to mistreat others.
     
    Ian Gordon likes this.
  3. Alex

    Alex New

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,616
    Hi Juliano... I get where you're coming from... but that doesn't mean that you're right... or that Mary's right. But we gotta deal with the fact that this idea keeps popping up, like here:
    http://www.amazon.com/Flipside-A-Journey-Into-Afterlife/dp/B0081U6K1Y

    this guy was as skeptical as you about this soul journey idea, but did some research, had some personal experiences and came to a different conclusion.

    also, whether it's true/somewhat-true or not, it doesn't excuse prejudice, subjugation and stupidity... e.g. caste system.
     
    Mishelle likes this.
  4. Ian Gordon

    Ian Gordon Ninshub Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Messages:
    1,676
    Hi Juliano, welcome. I don't know if you saw my post about this on this very thread here:
    http://www.skeptiko.com/forum/threa...human-experiences-matter.367/page-3#post-8241

    Many folks, including myself, come to the view that this is more likely than not accurate NOT because of any New Age philosophy, but because of data. (see the post I referenced).
     
    Steve likes this.
  5. Bucky

    Bucky Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Messages:
    1,681
    Hi Juliano,
    my feeling in this type of subject is that yes, there is evidence that people choose their role in their incarnation, but just because we have some evidence we can't jump to definitive conclusions. There is also evidence for the contrary, so how do we reconcile opposite views? If you have ever read any books by parapsychologist Hiroshi Motoyama, for example, you will find conflicting data that points to personal and group karma as the main driving force for reincarnation. Also I think most of the "we choose our life experience" type of literature comes from Western sources, so it's just a portion of the picture, not the full view.

    Even in Newton's book it's not a done deal that everyone choses it's role as if we were actors in search of interesting parts to play.

    When researchers report the case of people who have been regressed and report about these contracts I take it with a grain of salt and I would avoid to infer that that must be the rule the governs the spiritual world. I very much doubt that there's a general rule. Maybe it is one of the ways in which we can come to this earthly experience. Maybe it's another way to represent karma.

    It is very human for researchers to come to these black and white conclusions after 20-30 years of experience and it's understandable.
    If you speak with a naturopath he will tell you that his methods are superior to other practices. Then you speak with an allopath an he will tell you the same and so on and so forth. They are probably both right and wrong at the same time.

    I am growing increasing tired of the true/false, black/white paradigm, it is essentially a mind trap well ingrained in our culture. Possibly more in western culture. Just yesterday I was pondering (in another thread) on how we tend to favor the Aristotelian/dualistic modality of thinking . It's the law of the excluded middle. But the middle should not be discarded at all :D It is part of the "truth".

    So, yeah... I agree, it's not very likely that every handicapped human being that is born has decided his role before coming to this world. You also mention karma as a myth to absolve the responsibilities of the power elites. Honestly, I think you have it backwards, because the idea of Karma is extremely ancient and much more profound and sophisticated than the way you depict it. Just take a look at the immense work that Theosophists have done with the ancient esoteric Indian texts and how well they have described the many facets and levels of karmic manifestations.

    When I say that you have it backwards I mean that, as usual, politics and power can take very profound and powerful ideas and turn them into dumbed-down versions to exercise their control over people, just like the Catholic church has distorted and manipulated the original message of Jesus Christ for centuries to maintain their privileges and cultivate their very earthly interests.
     
    Ian Gordon, Steve and Stewart Lynch like this.
  6. Alex

    Alex New

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,616
    agree with much of this... would also point to Ian's excellent post:
    http://www.skeptiko.com/forum/threa...human-experiences-matter.367/page-3#post-8241

    paraphrasing... "yea, you pick a path for your soul journey, but your human existence influence and can change it." not saying this is true, but it possibly speaks to the complexity you're talking about.
     
  7. Ian Gordon

    Ian Gordon Ninshub Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Messages:
    1,676
    Yes, going back to Robert Schwartz' work I referenced above, the opposite lesson from what Juliano says comes through loud and clear: don't judge that wino on the street, he might be an extremely courageous and more advanced soul who chose that path for specific reasons. (Which also doesn't mean it's a fixed, rigid path, nor that other people shouldn't help others!!). It's the complete opposite of the Indian caste system philosophy.

    But yes, on the other hand, I can also see how people coming to any of these high spiritual/metaphysical concepts superficially, or without the necessary sophistication or maturity or whatever (maybe I'm wrong here and am guilty of "adultism" as Vortex would say ;)) could get into all kinds of damaging mischief or attempts at control.

    This reminds me of when Alex brings up the question of: what happens when the paradigm changes? Will everything become rosy? Or will, for example, humans who know they are unending souls get into "inhuman"/non-humane behaviour? (I definitely see a possibility for the latter, though I tend to intuit the advantages would probably outweigh the disadvantages.) Maybe the veil is there for a reason.

    In this line of thought, I think, for example, of PMH Atwater, in her Big Book of Near Death Experiences, bringing up the "dirty secret" often neglected by other NDE researchers that a sizeable minority of NDErs do choose suicide afterwards because it was so great "over there" (Home) and so incredibly lousy here by comparison.
     
  8. Alex

    Alex New

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,616
    I totally get this... and I don't care if it sounds a little condescending because I can relate to it on a personal level... e.g. being judgmental or mean and then gaining a deeper appreciation for an individual or situation.
     
  9. ghost

    ghost New

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2014
    Messages:
    804
    I can envision a soul volunteering to incarnate to become the object of extreme attention from extra-terrestrial powers. On the one hand, you have to endure the fear and discomfort. On the other hand, you get to tell your story. These alien entities do exist. I am sure they would very much like to reveal their existence to the mass of humanity. The problem is that their technology is built around ESP. I work in the technnology sector and I can assure you that ESP has nothing to do with technology. It would be a massive shock to the scientific and engineering community if it turned out that ESP and consciousness become integrated with technology, in terms of using psychic powers. When an aircraft lands, it kicks up lots of dust and wind. When a UFO lands, it creates a psychic disturbance. Psychic and paranormal phenomena fly in the face of what the scientific community believes. If the aliens really landed, there would be physicists going insane.

    By the way, when I was a kid, I saw the greys as a vision. I was very positively predisposed to the aliens. I like aliens.
     
  10. Alex

    Alex New

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,616
    maybe... but it all seems more complicated... more of an and/also rather than a but/or. there are plenty of cases where folks encounter something physical, and others where the encounters are at the level of consciousness (whatever that means).
     
  11. ghost

    ghost New

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2014
    Messages:
    804
    My experiences with aliens were at the level of consciousness. As a kid, I did see a black cloaked entity in a sleep paralysis experience. I am not well versed in the literature about alien abductions, but from what I've heard, there have been reports of physically impossible events happening; for example, being levitated and carried through a closed window onto a craft. I was impressed by the true story movie, Fire in the Sky. It is my opinion that even aliens can be incompetent and unfamiliar with their own equipment in such a way as to traumatize an abductee.
     
  12. K9!

    K9! New

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,597
     
    Judith likes this.
  13. india7

    india7 New

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    Messages:
    21
    I told a friend, who has many strange experiences typical of abductions, about Mary Rodwell's alien writing research.
    He was immediately interested and asked to see.
    When he saw it he was in a state of disbelief. He said that it looks very similar to scripts that he doodles all the time.
    He showed me some random old pieces of paper he had lying around on which he had doodled these scripts.
    Some pictures are attached - they look very similar to some of Mary Rodwell's discoveries. writing2.jpg writing3.jpg
    writing1.jpg

    I was pretty shocked by this. I tried to replicate this to see if I could spontaneously do something similar, but to no avail (my attempts looked pretty poor in comparison.)
    Most shocking of all was seeing him actually write this - it was incredibly fast and "fluent" - absolutely no "conscious thinking" was necessary, it just came...pages and pages...

    See a similar example here from Mary Rodwell: http://www.ufodigest.com/images/alien-script.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2016
  14. Dmitch

    Dmitch New

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Messages:
    152
    Ghost, Reading your experience, thought I'd chime in. I had a similar experience of a dark cloaked figure a few years ago. I was at the end of the nights sleep and was sleeping lightly on my back. Suddenly I felt an powerful electric like shock in my head. It lasted about 2 seconds and there were 3 shocks in quick succession. At the end of the 3rd shock, I turned my head and saw a dark cloaked figure standing by my bed next to me. Its head was covered by the front of the cloak. I struggled to wake up and when I did I immediately looked left and there was nothing there. I remember, I fully expected to see something and was not fearful. I also noted no unusual feeling in my head either. I passed it off as one of those very strange lucid dreams. It was definitely not a nightmare and the shocks are remembered as real events. Later when I went through what I saw, I realized the figure was actually not very tall. maybe only 4 1/2 ft.
    The thing about the incident was at the time I wasn't the least bit interested in paranormal events and hadn't watched any such movies recently. I don't draw any conclusions because I have no idea what I experienced. cheers.
     
    Alex and Sciborg_S_Patel like this.
  15. Dmitch

    Dmitch New

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Messages:
    152
    I work with institutionalized psychiatric patients and I wonder why would they have chosen to manifest in such heartbreaking ways. There is no salvation for some of them except from this life. I often think I must honor their choice and try to reciprocate in as respect a way as possible.
     
    Alex and Ian Gordon like this.
  16. Alex

    Alex New

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,616
    fascinating!
     
  17. Mishelle

    Mishelle Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2017
    Messages:
    246
    Home Page:
    This interview and thread is fascinating to me and I want to spend more time on it and with her work, thanks for the introduction!

    Obviously I'm quite late to this conversation, but if anyone is still interested in it and has more info I'd be grateful to hear it. I think this sort of therapy can be extremely cathartic and is helping and healing folks, but I do question how that is being achieved exactly and if in the long-term what is helpful to the individuals here is still unwholesome to the culture.

    My question, if anyone would care to comment, would be centered around some of the conclusions she seems to want to draw. Like at 59:29 "What 8 year old knows that . . ." speaking about the planets and Big Bang. Well, most 8 year olds in Western culture actually "know" this. I first heard of this in cartoons, when I was about 3 or 4 years old. At such a young age one simply accepts these things as reality, as real as the reality of any of the 'knowings' of the lower or survival senses, it gets imbedded there. We have evolved around stories since before civilization, and the stories have really not changed that much. If there is a collective unconscious, is that where some of these children are getting stuck? Nothing to do with 'false' memories, but reality all around us, whether we were the direct experiencer or not.

    My point is only that she does not seem to question where this is coming from but assumes 'truth' in these accounts, even collectively, when maybe the truths were based in psychosis from the initiating point. IDK, maybe that's the best way to heal others, or maybe culturally we are not often enough throwing out the bathwater . . . ?
     

Share This Page