Mod+ 234. GLOBAL WARMING, CLIMATE CHANGE AND OUR ILLUSION OF CONTROL

Hello, yep I'm back.

There seems to be some big developments in climate science that is going on behind the scenes.

Climate forcing. 2 years ago data sets were released to the public that now include solar particles and cosmic rays (due to be included in ipcc 2022 report), this undermines every single climate model up until that time. Since that time not a single peer reviewed paper using these data sets has been able to show any human influence on the climate.
Here's is a short summary.


The full documentary.

A surprising about face from The UN secretary general, perhaps because the inclusion of particle forcing.

A key paper in the latest IPCC sub report had to be retracted.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1585-5
hi LS... welcome back. I have scheduled a great guest to revisit this topic but I figure there's a 50% chance he'll back out of the debate.
 
hi LS... welcome back. I have scheduled a great guest to revisit this topic but I figure there's a 50% chance he'll back out of the debate.
Thanks Alex!

If you do get that interview I hope you can bring up these new developments, we are not hearing about it in the media of course but it seems to be making waves in academia. I would love to see if your guest was aware and what the response would be. The bottom line being that this missing element would have been by default attributed to human influence, so it is a spanner in the works of that argument to say the very least.

I'd just like to add that my personal issue with the CO2 debate is that it forces other more serious environmental issues to take a back seat or be ignored completely. I am all for less pollution, clean air, clean water, conservation etc.. Who wouldn't be,? I think we could all agree here. It's just that this CO2 thing completely misses the mark and actually does nothing but help hinder these other issues.

And thanks as well to Dave and Michael, I look forward to once again sharing some thoughts.
 
If you do get that interview I hope you can bring up these new developments, we are not hearing about it in the media of course but it seems to be making waves in academia. I would love to see if your guest was aware and what the response would be. The bottom line being that this missing element would have been by default attributed to human influence, so it is a spanner in the works of that argument to say the very least.
My bet is that people are busy burying all those new ideas as fast as they can go, because the whole thing is political - I hope I am wrong!

To me, one of the problems is that the ground temperature data was extremely dodgy from get go. Because the locations have to remain fixed for comparison purposes, when these locations become urbanised they are given a computer correction that is supposed to correct for the fact that weather temperature measurements are always higher in urban areas - the Urban Heat Island Effect. These corrections are often many times larger than the CO2 'signlal' they claim to be measuring.
I'd just like to add that my personal issue with the CO2 debate is that it forces other more serious environmental issues to take a back seat or be ignored completely. I am all for less pollution, clean air, clean water, conservation etc.. Who wouldn't be,? I think we could all agree here. It's just that this CO2 thing completely misses the mark and actually does nothing but help hinder these other issues.
I certainly agree with that comment. When we started collecting plastic for 'recycling' the Greens vetoed incinerating the stuff for energy. Their main reason was the extra CO2. So we ended up with plastic 'recycling' firms that shipped the stuff somewhere poor abroad, where it seems to have got dumped in the sea. This is just one egregious effect of the obsession this CO2.

Over the next few days, I am also going to add a few posts here that I shared privately with people

David
 
My bet is that people are busy burying all those new ideas as fast as they can go, because the whole thing is political - I hope I am wrong!

To me, one of the problems is that the ground temperature data was extremely dodgy from get go. Because the locations have to remain fixed for comparison purposes, when these locations become urbanised they are given a computer correction that is supposed to correct for the fact that weather temperature measurements are always higher in urban areas - the Urban Heat Island Effect. These corrections are often many times larger than the CO2 'signlal' they claim to be measuring.
Yes, the video you posted with Dr Soon, who was a really entertaining character btw, did a great job of exposing some of the tricks being used, from satistics to out right fraud. The thing is as mentioned in the video's I posted they even let the data manipulation through, giving them the benefit of doubt and still with these new data sets the human factor was no where to be found. I'm sure we'll see further attempts to control the narrative and damage control at the very least to save face. The positive sign is that some 700 plus papers are forcing the narrative, which seems to be coming from major universities. Some real mental acrobatics are going to be needed, I not sure they can be so blatant as time goes on you end up just looking foolish. As well this extremists culture is actually working against the movement in the public eye.

We are due for dramatic cooling this century, it's only a matter of time. Not that this is a good thing because a grand solar minimum will be far more devastating.

I certainly agree with that comment. When we started collecting plastic for 'recycling' the Greens vetoed incinerating the stuff for energy. Their main reason was the extra CO2. So we ended up with plastic 'recycling' firms that shipped the stuff somewhere poor abroad, where it seems to have got dumped in the sea. This is just one egregious effect of the obsession this CO2.
Madness, from all available evidence more CO2 is actually beneficial to the planet. What an absurd situation we have.
I have deep reverence for nature, it's part of my spirituality. This was once true for all. Animism was global. It was and is built into us. I think this is why so many feel alienated and a bit lost. We have forgotten our connection and our ancestral roots leading to a spiritual crisis that is reflected in society. And it in turn reflected in mother Earth. We could actually be a benefit to the planet instead of a virus. If people want to make a difference we should be looking at becoming as self sufficient as possible connecting with nature and find once again those old ways. Since I left the forum I have embraced Paganism and I have to say it has been incredibly trans formative, I feel complete. It is far more than just enjoying clean air and water and it's beauty. But that is another subject. .
Over the next few days, I am also going to add a few posts here that I shared privately with people

David
Please do.
 
OK, each of these is unedited, so some may overlap a bit with things already discussed.

I am sure you have heard the story - Venus' atmosphere is almost all CO2, and the temperature at the surface of the planet is hot enough to melt lead - all absolutely true, except for one thing - the pressure of the atmosphere at the surface of Venus is 92 times that on earth!

There used to a website that showed the full set of data, but the link doesn't seem work - but I'll give you the link in case that is just a glitch

http://www.datasync.com/~rsf1/vel/1918vpt.htm

Alternatively there is a table (right hand column some way down) in this article. The article discusses the supposed runaway greenhouse effect, and yet you obviously need to compare Venus and Earth at 1 Atmosphere pressure. As you can see, the temperature comes out at 75C (66C on the original set of data). This is probably accounted for by the fact that the planet is much closer to the sun!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Venus

The second observation that stunned me when I first heard it, is that when you think about it, actual greenhouses don't retain heat because of the greenhouse effect (if one really exists) but because the glass stops heat escaping by convection. Open the doors, and the heat escapes!

However, perhaps this video is the most convincing. This is a guy who got the Nobel prize in physics, tearing into the idea of GW:

http://www.mediatheque.lindau-nobel...ver-global-warming-revisited/laureate-giaever

The introduction of the idea of Climate Change as opposed to Global Warming, effectively made the theory untestable - because the climate is constantly changing. Thus back in Roman times, people in the North of England could grow grapes for wine! The climate was considerably warmer then, and between then and now, there was the period when the Thames froze hard enough for people to set up fairs on the surface:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Thames_frost_fairs

To me, the tragedy of the green movement, is that it has been sent off on an expensive wild goose chase, to the detriment of the topics that it should concentrate on - nuclear weapons and the destruction of the rain forest! Overpopulation can also wreck the planet regardless of how frugally we all live.

I can give you some interesting websites if you want more details. I try to avoid these discussions in the forum, because they tend to create enormous passions in some people, and to draw in others who are hell bent on overwhelming any reasonable discussion of the issue. For example they sometimes wrote posts that were several pages long with lots of links. In the end they had to be banned. I checked and the worst offenders had not written one post about our primary topics such as ψ.

More to follow.

David
 
OK, each of these is unedited, so some may overlap a bit with things already discussed.

I am sure you have heard the story - Venus' atmosphere is almost all CO2, and the temperature at the surface of the planet is hot enough to melt lead - all absolutely true, except for one thing - the pressure of the atmosphere at the surface of Venus is 92 times that on earth!

There used to a website that showed the full set of data, but the link doesn't seem work - but I'll give you the link in case that is just a glitch

http://www.datasync.com/~rsf1/vel/1918vpt.htm
It's archived on the Wayback machine...

https://web.archive.org/web/20180128074727/http://www.datasync.com/~rsf1/vel/1918vpt.htm

So, in spite of the surface temperature of Venus being on the order of 864 degrees Fahrenheit, and the Venusian surface pressure being on the order of 90 earth atmospheres,
 
Since I left the forum I have embraced Paganism and I have to say it has been incredibly trans formative, I feel complete.
Can you describe that a bit - did you join any organisations, or simply accept animistic ideas.

Paganism certainly sounds potentially interesting, but that might be that it is the spiritual movement that is furthest from Christianity and Islam!

David
 
Can you describe that a bit - did you join any organisations, or simply accept animistic ideas.

Paganism certainly sounds potentially interesting, but that might be that it is the spiritual movement that is furthest from Christianity and Islam!

David
I was thinking of writing a bit about it, it is a huge topic and I'm not sure where to begin. No I didn't join any organisation I'm sticking to the left hand path. As you know I was always interested in Shamanism, and started looking into Teutonic shamanism since much of my ancestry stems from northern Europe. Ancestry is a big part of both animism and paganism. Animism is the foundation of paganism. I think my ancestors were guiding me. I am still some what eclectic but use Norse traditions as a framework you could say. I found it to be incredibly rich, and deeply psychologically symbolic. It spoke to me.

Something I had experienced hundreds of times during shamanic journeys I found in the ancient myths. it then became very real for me. My experience converged with something for the first time ever and I finally understood what was once impossible to put into words. This was the ǫnd, the spirit, sometimes called breath or soul. In mythology it is the cosmic serpent the Ouroboros. Think of kundalini of Hinduism, the Aether of the Greeks, Phanes or Protogonos of the Orphic. I'd been interacting with this thing for years and not knowing what was happening. It is like a web of energy that connects all life. Our ancestors were very aware of it.

So it was not just accepting a concept but actually experiencing it, even seeing it. As real as anything in the physical world. It is right here with us now.

I have always been a spiritual inclined person but was never satisfied with religion, it seemed far removed from experience, far from this world, detached, it did not offer anything for me except confusion and contradiction. I wanted experience not just have faith or believe something for no reason.
 
Last edited:
Hi again, LS. I've watched the video on radiative forcing now, and have been trying to find where it might have been discussed on WUWT, but can't, which is surprising since it seems like a big deal. Can you find coverage of it at WUWT? Maybe I've been searching using the wrong terms there...
 
Hi again, LS. I've watched the video on radiative forcing now, and have been trying to find where it might have been discussed on WUWT, but can't, which is surprising since it seems like a big deal. Can you find coverage of it at WUWT? Maybe I've been searching using the wrong terms there...
Only had a quick look so far, I could not find any specifics to the data sets. There are some articles on cosmic rays. This has been building for a long time,These 700 or so papers span around a decade. The big news is the IPCC has now been forced to include these data sets. Perhaps look for any news on the 2022 report?

Here's a link to cmip6 for the data sets, maybe you can find some search terms here?
https://esgf-node.llnl.gov/projects/cmip6/
 
I'd just like to add that my personal issue with the CO2 debate is that it forces other more serious environmental issues to take a back seat or be ignored completely. I am all for less pollution, clean air, clean water, conservation etc.. Who wouldn't be,? I think we could all agree here. It's just that this CO2 thing completely misses the mark and actually does nothing but help hinder these other issues.
agreed... I know this may sound over-the-top conspiratorial but I have to wonder if this isn't part of the plan... i.e. focus on the carbon trading so as to distract from the other stuff that might threaten friendly business interests.
 
Top