Mod+ 242. OLIVER HOCKENHULL, NEURONS TO NIRVANA

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by alex.tsakiris, Apr 8, 2014.

  1. D. Shropshire

    D. Shropshire New

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2014
    Messages:
    106
    If sufism has such a capacity to change people how do you account for the fact that it hasn't even changed too many muslims? Apparently of all those muslims out there, there are only about 2-5 million sufis. If even muslims don't much go for it, why would you expect others to?
     
  2. LoneShaman

    LoneShaman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1,430
    Likewise Michael, we are still friends you are one of my favourites here.
    I was upset with your one post regarding native cultures. It is something close to my heart. I have an adopted indigenous son who I will be helping to discover his roots with the help of some elders. So I did get upset with that.

    I know very little of the Sufi's, I am willing to know more only because of your endorsement. The way you feel about them is probably the way I feel about the Amazonian shamans. They do live and breath spirituality, it is not fair that you say they are any less than any other tradition. That is my only point.

    I am sure we can agree on that.
     
  3. D. Shropshire

    D. Shropshire New

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2014
    Messages:
    106
    I too studied more about Sufis, so can endorse that. But when you study about them, you better concentrate on the pro-sufi literature, because if you depend on regular muslims, you'll really get an earfull, because most of them are against it. Note my message above that most muslims do NOT go for sufiism and have not been convinced.
     
  4. Michael Larkin

    Michael Larkin Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2013
    Messages:
    2,119
    I don't wish to upset you and commend your adoption of a Native American son. I feel quite sure you have his best interests at heart and that you love one another very dearly. I'm not quite sure whether you are saying you want a copy of The Sufis, but if you do, please contact me via a private conversation thread and I will make the arrangements. Using your Amazon public wishlist would be most convenient and easy, I'd imagine.
     
  5. LoneShaman

    LoneShaman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1,430
    From the little I know that seems apparent. I will keep that in mind.
     
  6. LoneShaman

    LoneShaman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1,430
    Thanks Michael, he's an Australian aboriginal actually. He's a handful, keeps me on my toes. But don't they all.
    Talk soon, yes I am interested. And thank you so much for the generous offer.
     
    MysticG and Sciborg_S_Patel like this.
  7. Glad that's settled. :)

    For my part I think the right take on spiritual experience was said a long time ago:

    "We look on the same stars, the sky is common, the same world surrounds us. What difference does it make by what pains each seeks the Truth?

    We cannot attain to so great a secret by one road alone. There cannot be but one answer to this great question."
    --Symmachus, (c. 340-c. 405)
     
    LoneShaman and MysticG like this.
  8. radicalpolitik

    radicalpolitik New

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    737
    Well, like any religion, when it comes to it. Muslims can be a bit dogged in their beliefs.
     
  9. D. Shropshire

    D. Shropshire New

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2014
    Messages:
    106
    Right, so nobody else in the whole wide world is convinced by their anecdotes but themselves.
    In fact Sufis have often been persecuted in muslim lands.
     
  10. chuck.drake

    chuck.drake Guest

    I got that book this summer, Michael. Probably after you recommended it elsewhere. I will put it on my reading list.
     
  11. Under the Influence: How did enlightenment thinkers distinguish between ‘drugs’ and ‘medicines’? And how should we?

     
  12. Vortex

    Vortex Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Messages:
    637
    As well as Gnostics in Christian lands. By "persecution", I mean "mass torture and murder".
     
  13. Technicolor Medicine: Magic Mushrooms Can Create New Brain Cells

     
  14. LoneShaman

    LoneShaman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1,430
    Well I can say that mushrooms changed my life on several occasions, even the first which was the most terrifying event of my life.
    Not everytime will you have what could be a spiritual experience but ocasionally you get a glimpse of something unfathomable.
    As well as having some disturbing experiences a good handful have been the most profound and meaningful experiences of my life.
    Indescribable, I am hesitant to say it, but the prescence of god.

    Then I find the same experiences connected to the roots of all religions and that modern science confirirms the same thing, it can produce profound mystical experiences that are life changing. I can honestly say that is the case with me. Profound mystical experiences may be an understatement. The awe sticks with you for a long time.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
    Sciborg_S_Patel likes this.
  15. Max_B

    Max_B Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2013
    Messages:
    3,155
    Home Page:
    Sciborg_S_Patel likes this.
  16. Alexander (Sasha) Shulgin - A fascinating perspective on the nature of consciousness

    Some discussion of drug receptors leftover from evolution, and mention of consciousness as mental function being more than brain function -> I think a lot of people have been wondering if the transmission/filter hypothesis can reconcile Psi & evolution by thinking that animals being distracted by the larger/higher realities would die off.

    The idea also fits into Strassman's theoneurological model I mentioned before.

    Full film from which the above was cut:

    Dirty Pictures "The creator of MDMA (Ecstasy)"

     
    LoneShaman and radicalpolitik like this.
  17. HOW WE ALMOST CURED ADDICTION: THE STRANGE HISTORY OF THE IBOGAINE MOVEMENT IN THE UNITED STATES.

     
    Trancestate likes this.
  18. radicalpolitik

    radicalpolitik New

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    737
    Sciborg_S_Patel likes this.
  19. Mind at Large

     
  20. I don't believe I posted this, though continual traveling has altered my sense of memory...In any case I thought it was an interesting reflection on the "ascetic vs psychedelic" discussion -

    Prolegomena to a Guide for the Emerging Yoga Shaman

     

Share This Page