Mod+ 242. OLIVER HOCKENHULL, NEURONS TO NIRVANA

The body should or could be thought of as prison for the soul. In a near death experience, if the heart stops, or high-G stresses, why should the soul separate (partially separate) from the body resulting in a NDE?

Anyway quantum mechanics proves that materialism is only a half truth. Particle-wave duality, quantum field theory, the Higgs field are all clues that invisible fields are a normal part of nature. Living creatures are made of fundamental particles. Why wouldn't they also be made of quantum fields as well?
 
D. Shropshire said:
By 'materialism', I guess you mean what is often called 'reality', right? .
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We all want to consider reality, but many of us suspect that the 'reality' of materialism is incomplete - it leaves out a lot of phenomena that certainly exist. It isn't by any means clear that materialism can even explain ordinary consciousness!

If you are interested in any of these issues, why not read some of what is on offer here, and actually learn a bit. If on the other hand you are convinced that materialism is the correct description of reality (as I used to be, BTW) and don't want to learn anything that might disturb that belief, I don't see the point in your continuing to post here.

David
 
ghost said:
The body should or could be thought of as prison for the soul. In a near death experience, if the heart stops, or high-G stresses, why should the soul separate (partially separate) from the body resulting in a NDE?
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The word "prison" may carry different connotations for you than it does for me. It sounds unduly pessimistic to me, as though this life in itself was a sentence. I'd suggest a more neutral sounding word, such as "container" perhaps, or whatever you prefer, so long as it allows the possibility of some of the positive and uplifting experiences which can occur while we inhabit the body.
 
Typoz said:
The word "prison" may carry different connotations for you than it does for me. It sounds unduly pessimistic to me, as though this life in itself was a sentence. I'd suggest a more neutral sounding word, such as "container" perhaps, or whatever you prefer, so long as it allows the possibility of some of the positive and uplifting experiences which can occur while we inhabit the body.
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I agree with your sentiment. I just haven't found a better way to articulate "gilded cage" in a way that sounds more like "strapped in for the ride". :D
 
Bucky said:
I call it the "diving suit" :)

ETA: Or maybe the "armor" which seems closer to the original noun in my native language

ps: how do you call this in English?
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That's a diving suit. How about a mech warrior?
MechWarrior_Mercs_Wallpaper_3_by_Mecha_Master.jpg
 
By the way, the other silly argument of materialist skeptics is that neurochemicals cause consciousness to occur. But there is no evidence that atoms or molecules can result in consciousness. The brain can modulate or paint a picture for the consciousness observer, but it can't create consciousness. There is more evidence for the existence of a soul than there is for an "experiencer" made of atoms.
 
D. Shropshire said:
No, that doesn't follow......either. Nor do I see anybody answering my query about how you can call a guy dead when no death certificate has been issued, and there is no copy of the doctors tape saying; ''patient died at 3:15pm''.
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Oh, so now doctors confirm the time of death? But according to many skeptics, even our current metrics of death don't apply. When the heart stop beating, the blood stops moving, and the machines are flat; that's not death! Death is when some young intern asks a nurse what time it is, and then has the coroner come down and write up a death certificate.

I guess people only started dying when modern medicine was invented, right? Everyone without a death certificate and a time of death still lives.

Praise the spaghetti monster!
 
I'd suggest that unless Mr. Shropshire reappears, we all get back to the main topic of this thread.

I'd like to know if anyone has watched "Neurons to Nirvana" yet? I see it can be downloaded for $15.

I also wonder if others have experienced precognition while under the influence of cannabis?

David
 
David Bailey said:
I'd suggest that unless Mr. Shropshire reappears, we all get back to the main topic of this thread.
I'd like to know if anyone has watched "Neurons to Nirvana" yet? I see it can be downloaded for $15.
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Actually I think you can see it in HD streaming for $4.99 unless Amazon has some limitations for people outside the US.
I haven't seen it yet but plan to do so very soon. See here:
http://www.amazon.com/Neurons-Nirva...HX72/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1397233332&sr=8-1

cheers
 
Bucky said:
Actually I think you can see it in HD streaming for $4.99 unless Amazon has some limitations for people outside the US.
I haven't seen it yet but plan to do so very soon. See here:
http://www.amazon.com/Neurons-Nirva...HX72/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1397233332&sr=8-1

cheers
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Thanks for this, will probably watch it when I visit some friends who are into this stuff, though it'll probably have to wait until after a long distance trip.

In lighter fare, here's a cute animation "arguing" for entheogen based spirituality:

Trip, a short film by VJSuave.
 
Michael Larkin said:
Fair point, LS. If people don't confuse the two, it's possible there's benefits to be had from both. It's just that for me personally, I think it would muddy the waters.
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Well it is always a personal choice. But beyond the mysticism there are some solid truths. One of them is the deep instrospection and personal evaluation of all aspects of your life that occurs as the layers of the ego peel away. You see yourself from another perspective without the muddying from the ego. This it how it works as a psychological therapeutic tool. It is how it has helped people with depression, addiction, anxiety, ptsd etc...

If anything at all it clears the waters and does not muddy them. That is the whole point, and why it can be of real value, dare I say far, far, more than studying any religious doctrine, personal experience is always more powerful. I think you have more chance muddying the waters by being influenced by dogma and doctrines, false messiahs, and misinterpretations from spiritual leaders. Modern systems are just shells of the past. Shamanism is the original and oldest spiritual practise. Emphasis on practise, it is not a religion.

Entheogens offer a personal path, without the clutter, the knowledge comes from within. There is no greater tool for gnosis.

Each to their own, people can meditate for decades, study ancient writings and wisdoms and never even come close to having a spiritual experience, yet a visit to the shamans of the rainforest can and has transformed them in one night! It happens all the time, the fact it demonstrates positive lasting change shows that it is not muddy waters being seen, but the result of clarity and truth. I can say this with certainty.
 
Max_B said:
I think people generally take drugs because it tends to be a nice experience, and makes them feel good... they wouldn't take them if they were horrible
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That is a western view Max. The difficult experiences are most often the most beneficial.

My experience was horrendous... from what I was told, it's relatively rare, and perhaps '...I was wired up a bit differently...'? Who knows... I'm already very sensitive so I now feel no need to increase my sensitivity, and certainly not if there was any risk of having that experience again... a couple more of those, and I could see myself developing mental health problems.
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It is rare, considering it was just hash, which Is only mildly psychedelic and works in an entirely different way to DMT, Aya, shrooms, mescaline, LSD etc.. While extreme those unpleasant effects with cannabis diminish after a few uses.

I think it was Huxley who said they can open heaven or hell. It is just that sometimes hell can teach you more.
 
Michael Larkin said:
I checked out some of the reports. I can't say that I'm convinced there's a close parallel between the two. I liked a couple of Robert Perry's posts, and the report he included, from someone who's had both and NDE and pschedelic experiences, is instructive.

If there are specific reports (I found it impractical to plow through all the many reports in the references you supplied) that show closer similarities to NDEs, please let me have the links and I'll take a closer look.
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My point wasn't so much that DMT experiences map to NDEs in some significant way. My comment was related more to when you said this:

It wouldn't surprise me if DMT does in fact affect the brain filter and "lets in" some of the manifestations of reality that ordinarily escape us--e.g. unusual sensations of colour and sound--but possibly not in a coherent way.
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It doesn't take much reading on the DMT experience to realize that it goes well beyond sensations of colour and sound--and that there are many unexplainable commonalities across some DMT experiences just as we see in the NDE.
 
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