Mod+ 252. BERNADETTE DORAN ON ENERGY HEALING

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by alex.tsakiris, Aug 26, 2014.

  1. Alex

    Alex New

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,608
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 17, 2015
  2. http://www.skeptiko.com/252-bernadette-doran-on-energy-healing/

    I have taken classes in spiritual healing at Spiritualist churches and have had many positive experiences giving and receiving healing. Before I learned to do this type of healing I had read about it but I didn't really think I could do it until I took a class. When I experienced giving or receiving healing, I could feel sensations so I knew something was happening. Anyone can learn to do it. I've described the technique I use on my web site:
    http://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/spiritual_healing

    I have given healing at Spiritualist churches and as part of a program for certification in healing I obtained seven affidavits of healing from people who I gave healing to. The conditions treated included, flu symptoms, joint disorders, psychological conditions, respiratory conditions and others.


    Energy healing is much older than the modern movement of mind-body medicine. For example qigong is over 4000 years old.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2014
  3. Michael Larkin

    Michael Larkin Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2013
    Messages:
    2,119
    Interesting to hear that you too have been affected by heart palpitations, Alex.

    Fairly recently, they got very bad for me: every third beat missing, which leads to various unpleasant sensations and worry. In my experience, cardiologists in the UK don't consider palpitations as too serious an issue and tend to put them down to stress, etc. So, no point looking to them for help.

    I've tried all sorts of things over the years, but then I found something not very long ago that had an immediate effect: hempseed oil, which is freely available in the UK and can be purchased on Amazon. It's free of cannabinoids, which is why, I suppose, it's legal.

    I had to experiment to find the right dose: too much and it led to nausea. Currently, I take 10-15 ml a day. I might reduce that a bit: could be only a teaspoon a day (around 5ml) might work just as well, and maybe not even every day.

    I'm also fascinated by your experience with Bernadette Doran and am considering trying out the energy healing myself for other health issues: the price seems affordable to me and has the advantage I don't need to travel anywhere. What the hell, 95% of the things I've tried over the years don't work. That includes doctors, who have in the past been very dismissive, so I rarely go to my local GP: I went just yesterday, as it happens, and his first remark was "long time, no see" (last time I went was 7 years ago). My reply was "I hate going to the doctor", to which he said nothing: I guess many middle-aged and older men have said the same thing to him: apparently, women are much more likely to go to see doctors than men. Which possibly helps account for why there's less focus on things like prostate cancer than breast or cervical cancer. I guess some of us don't want to go to the doctor lest he find something wrong.;)

    ETA: If I try the treatment, I may report back about my experience.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2014
    MysticG likes this.
  4. Ian Gordon

    Ian Gordon Ninshub Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Messages:
    1,676
    Whatever it was that helped, good to hear you're better, Alex. :)
     
    Bucky likes this.
  5. Interesting stuff - glad you're feeling better Alex. Sorry to be a bother, but did you get my PM regarding Jack Hunter wanting to do an interview?
    On Show 252:

    That it seems to work at a far distance, even when someone is skeptical, is something I hope is further tested. I recall Fred Alan Wolf and Krippner saying shamanic healers want to make you open to the possibility, even using some magic tricks to do so, b/c that openness helps them work on your ailment. I recall there being some successful healings recorded by anthropologists, though they may have all been for the type of cases most successfully treated by placebos (nausea, pain, and other subjective phenomena.)

    Krippner also notes the relationship between healing and dreaming in the above link.

    On the question of energy and healing, the physicist F. David Peat had an essay on how it might possibly work:

    Towards a process Theory of Healing: Energy, Activity and Global Form

    Also, another Krippner link:

     
    Jim_Smith likes this.
  6. mybell

    mybell New

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2014
    Messages:
    91
    (Other than the very well-known concept of "prayer") "John of God" and "Braco the Gazer" are also two well-known "healers/distance healers", in that biz that is. And those who claim to have reiki special-powers are working in many hospitals now believing they add a different dimension to the healing process. Reiki of course being commonly used for distance sessions. It usually plays out as pretty "amazing" or "miraculous" when these types of sessions appear to resolve issues (health or otherwise), so agreed, it is nice you appear to have experienced so-called positive benefits.

    Due to apparent severe health complications from life injuries etc, you name an "alternative" modality, I have tried it, likely many times with different "healers". Mine was the cliche "journey through desperation" which knows few limits. Years ago one so-called "very powerful energy healer" told me two minutes into a session "Oh. I can't help you. You need to heal yourself.". It seemed "the angels" told her that or something. I tried live Braco sessions and even considered scheduling Caroline Myss (talk about desperation), and as mentioned by another above, I took many courses to learn how to harness the "special powers" myself.

    All that said, the beliefs of needing to "seek outside myself for healing" were not so fortuitous and those days are long gone, but each journey appears as its own. If anything, it seems the experiences and stories are great for perpetuating the "mystical magical mysteries". (like Sciborg mentioned placebos, which is likely not very popular in pharmaceutical circles!)

    Cheers.
     
  7. If the placebo effect was the cause of the healing, then it should also have occurred when mainstream medical treatments were tried. If energy healing causes an "enhanced placebo effect", it is not a placebo effect, it is a real effect.

    The term placebo effect describes several different phenomenon, some are better understood than others. Giving a name to a phenomenon is not the same as explaining it. Using the term "placebo effect" outside of a controlled experiment is just another way of saying, "I don't how it happened but I have faith in materialism."
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2014
    alex.tsakiris likes this.
  8. mybell

    mybell New

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2014
    Messages:
    91
    Is that so?

    Which placebo-type phenomenon are considered better understood than others? Those where "science" has published studies?

    I did not realize any placebo-like phenomenon were understood well at all actually, unless one was ascribing the unexplainable phenomenal healing to their notion of "god". (Or perhaps in cases where science would say the individual was not diseased/crippled/ill in the first place so the "placebo" was unrelated to the apparent healing e.g. a so-called hypochondriac being dispensed sugar pills and claiming to be cured?)
     
  9. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naloxone
     
    Sciborg_S_Patel likes this.
  10. Alex

    Alex New

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,608
    thx for this. yea, I can't see much downside in trying energy healing. pls let us know how it goes.
     
  11. Alex

    Alex New

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,608
    thx Ian :)
     
  12. Alex

    Alex New

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,608
    thx for this. sorry about dropping the ball re Jack (didn't see the PM)... corrected now.
     
  13. Alex

    Alex New

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,608
    exactly. also, to put this episode chapter into context, this is just one example of the silliness of mind=brain.
     
    Jim_Smith likes this.
  14. EthanT

    EthanT Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1,013
    Home Page:
    The placebo effect can still be real, even if the energy healing effect is also real and not necessarily dependent upon any placebo effect.
     
    Sciborg_S_Patel likes this.
  15. Bucky

    Bucky Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Messages:
    1,681
    Hey Alex, nice to hear you were able to fix the problem avoiding drugs and hospitals.
    Having changed the diet is likely to also have improved the condition but that doesn't subtract from the experience.

    I have experimented with energy healing during 2006-8. I had met several people doing reiki and pranic healing at the time and was very curious, in particular with remote healing which for me was almost inconceivable at the time. I had several treatments done by different people and I was very surprised about the outcome. I didn't suffer from anything major but I was in a stressful period of time and I was in need of some mental reset.

    I have no doubt that "energy" can be moved around and accessed from remote, although I have no idea of what energy we're really talking about, I doubt it's something known in the realm of today physics. And I doubt it is only EM as Gary Schwartz posits in his "Energy Healing Experiments" book.

    As regards the placebo effect I am not particularly blown away by the studies I've seen, which kind of makes me skeptic of the usual materialist's approach to label as "placebo" any unexplainable healing.

    There are studies on Parkinson's patients being able to significantly increase endogenous dopamine levels, via placebo, and thus reducing their symptoms. On the surface this is fascinating but we all know that when we get excited, for example for participating in a promising medical trial, our brain chemistry changes and we can see powerful effects. The question however is... can we sustain that effect for a long time? Some placebos can work for a relatively long time (months), other wear off more rapidly.

    As regards the power of expectation and suggestion... placebo works even if people are told they are given a fake remedy!
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode/placebos-work-even-when-you-know-10-12-23/

    A study reported in a recent BBC documentary presented the case of a woman suffering from IBS who benefited from a placebo medication even knowing that she was administered a inactive remedy! The sole idea of being involved in a medical study was sufficient to help her symptoms, even though she knew she was swallowing sugar pills. When the study was over her symptoms worsened again. This is not to say that the placebo effect is unremarkable, but it seems pretty intuitive the symptoms will change when the patient spends a lot of time at home vs being engaged in a stimulating activity, for example.

    The are other documented placebo effects that seem remarkable like "placebo surgery". At first it sounds amazing that a fake knee surgery can produce the same effect of a real meniscus operation, but it turns out that simply most of these procedures have no particular effect in the first place.

    However, in most chronic and degenerative illnesses the placebo effect can be useful to relieve some symptoms but it's unlikely to produce a complete remission. There's simply not enough evidence to jump to such conclusion. When an energy healer or any other alternative practitioner resolves one of these long standing issues the default explanation from medicine is "spontaneous remission" or "placebo". Which is like saying... could have been anything, but not the healer :D

    It's amazing how "critical thinkers" loose their ability to think straight when something goes beyond their heavily guarded intellectual borders :D

    There is probably more to the placebo effect than what we know, and studies are contradictory, but I wouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions whenever a remarkable case of healing is documented, especially in complex cases that have been going on for years.
     
  16. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Messages:
    4,452
    Alex,

    Thanks for sharing all that with us! Did you ever discover why your doctor was trying to get you for an urgent detailed heart examination, and were you ever tested conventionally to confirm that you are now cured?

    If you ever receive any more remote energy healing, it might be good to specify a start time of between 9 and 10 (say), and then see if you can pinpoint the time when the process actually begins - something you seem to have done with your first treatment. On the other hand, I understand that you would not want to do anything that might detract from your treatment.

    My feeling about placebo, is that doctors are probably seeing just the fringe of a very powerful mechanism. After all, in most of science, people pounce on weak effects and work to make them stronger and longer lasting - think of radioactivity, which originally seemed to do nothing but fog photographic plates, and discharge static electricity!

    Maybe these 'energy' healings are indeed harnessing whatever causes the the placebo effect, but in a more efficient way.

    David
     
    Sciborg_S_Patel likes this.
  17. Bucky

    Bucky Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Messages:
    1,681
    About what I was saying before... even if not directly related to energy-healing:



    Doctors have a hard time admitting high dose vitamin C can do remarkable things... which is still a very material, quantifiable, non supernatural substance :D
     
    Reece and Jim_Smith like this.
  18. John Maguire

    John Maguire New

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2013
    Messages:
    268
    Home Page:
    My understanding is that Vitamin C is effective in augmenting (if not outright curing) cancer treatment for example, but only if done intravenously. I believe this was originally put forward by Linus Pauling (winner of two Nobel prizes) -- who was denounced for the idea by most of the scientific community, but has clearly been shown to be more right than wrong on the matter.
     
    Reece likes this.
  19. Bucky

    Bucky Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Messages:
    1,681
    The man in the video responded dramatically to high dose IV vit. C which is what saved his life, since every time they stopped it his recovery would stop as well.
    However he kept improving also using an oral form which is referred to as "liposhpere" or liposomal, which is essentially vit. C coated in phospholipids. This is thought to be effective in transporting the substance directly to the cells, similar if not better to IV.
    I don't know if any studies have been done on this particular form but it seems to have made the difference for this man.
     
    Reece likes this.
  20. Alex

    Alex New

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,608
    nope. thought about it, but I figured I'd just go with how I feel.
     

Share This Page