Mod+ 255. IAN MCCORMACK’S EXCLUSIVELY CHRISTIAN NEAR-DEATH EXPEIENCE

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by alex.tsakiris, Sep 30, 2014.

  1. bishop

    bishop Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Messages:
    641
    This is very interesting. Is it possible that this happens to all NDErs? And to what level and across what scale? For example, do people overlay specific loved ones (after the experience) over beings that are not specifically defined during the NDE? Or even much more broadly speaking, do they see light or feel love because those are common experiences?
     
    Sciborg_S_Patel likes this.
  2. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Messages:
    4,468
    Clearly we are all floundering about a bit when it comes to NDE's, so it is impossible to be definite.

    However, I think there is a vast difference between people someone has actually known, and people like Jesus - I know some believers talk about 'knowing Jesus' but this is obviously something of a metaphor.

    The other thing that I think is important, is that we generalise from typical NDE's rather than from the outliers.

    NDE's suggest that consciousness continues in some way after death. That in itself is fascinating, particularly if we can assume that this is not a few minutes of excitement followed by oblivion. I think that is unlikely because my impression is that the longer someone is 'dead' the more intense are their experiences.

    David
     
  3. Dmitch

    Dmitch New

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Messages:
    152
    When I was 4, I used to wake up at night and see people around my bed. I'd often scream in terror and my father would come in and do the 'under the bed' search. One night I woke up and a man in a cloak and beard was standing at the foot of my bed with a light in his right hand. It wasn't scary and I guess I fell back asleep. The next day I told my mother sitting on her lap and remember having no doubt. I pointed to the center figure in a picture of the Last Supper hanging in her bedroom. I didn't know his name at the time and can't remember if any special feeling or info was exchanged. I don't remember if my waking nightmares came back after that, but I could definitely interpret that experience into something paranormal if I chose to. I never thought about it until I started reading about Jesus based NDEs. I must say I'm totally neutral but maybe there's something to the collective unconscious that these religious figures are encountered.

    My tendency is to accept the bulk of basic commonalities of NDEs: Hyper-reality, a matrix of peace and unconditional love to those that wish to receive it, deceased relatives or other guiding spirits which receive the NDEer. It seems free will can direct the experience and individual perception paints the NDE picture. I came across A case of an NDEer who was born blind. Now it's not all subjective.
    http://web.archive.org/web/20080117054508/http:/www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence03.html
     
    Sciborg_S_Patel and MysticG like this.
  4. Michael Larkin

    Michael Larkin Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2013
    Messages:
    2,134
  5. Typoz

    Typoz Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2013
    Messages:
    2,407
    Perhaps she did see in colour, but wasn't familiar with the meaning of the words we use to describe colour. In other words, the lack may not have been in the perception, but in the ability to describe it.
     
    Dmitch and K9! like this.
  6. Michael Larkin

    Michael Larkin Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2013
    Messages:
    2,134
    Yes, could be so; but to me, that also would speak of the same thing.
     
    Dmitch likes this.
  7. Szechuan

    Szechuan New

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2014
    Messages:
    170
    No, I wouldn't feel had. I am convinced that one of the primary purposes of life is to learn stuff - primarily to grow into emotional, spiritual and relational maturity. For what, and why, I don't know. But I tend to view this existence as a kind of kindergarten. I expect everyone has at least some experiences that they are meant to have. But experiences don't occur in vacuums - we interpret them. Our experiences inform our beliefs and then our beliefs inform our interpretations and thus ultimately what an experience means to us, which in turn can lead to modification of beliefs, and so on. Maybe we pick the cultural context we are born into. Hell! Maybe we pick our personality and a whole bunch of stuff, just the way a gamer picks their RPG character in order to have certain kinds of experiences within the game that would not be available had she picked a different kind of character to play. From within this perspective, the divine Mind (God/Source/The Architect) may well give seemingly contradictory instructions to different people precisely in order to have experiences and character growth that would not occur if they had been given some other instructions.
     
  8. Ian Thompson

    Ian Thompson Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2013
    Messages:
    349
    Home Page:
    If the person giving the recommendations is sufficiently perceptive of our loves and abilities, they should give us advice that they can discern in advance that we are willing to accept and follow. Not blind following, but willing from our life's loves to follow.
     
    Sciborg_S_Patel and Szechuan like this.
  9. Dmitch

    Dmitch New

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Messages:
    152
    For anyone casually perusing the site. I highly recommend doing some of your own research and joining the forum. There's a bounty of NDE reports from NDERF.org and IANDS both here.
    http://nderf.org/
    http://iands.org/home.html
     
    Sciborg_S_Patel likes this.
  10. Matt²

    Matt² New

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Messages:
    263
    Great interview Alex. Your talks are always interesting regardless of the outcome because you make an effort to connect to the guest, even if the guest doesn't reciprocate.

    You call it like you see it, which I have observed to be a very down to earth perspective. So it doesn't matter which way the talk swings, because you're consistent attitude holds up both ends.
     
  11. ghost

    ghost New

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2014
    Messages:
    804
    I wish Alex would interview someone who knew statistics of NDE experiences heaven/hell with respect to religion and other factors. It would be nice to know.
     
    Sciborg_S_Patel likes this.
  12. I think we'd have to look at the historical record to see how this was worked out. It seems to me the NDEs told people to spread different "winning tickets" for the Belief Lottery, but it's possible people simply misinterpreted a personal message for a universal one.
     
    Stephen Wright likes this.
  13. ghost

    ghost New

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2014
    Messages:
    804
    If we rely upon the NDE evidence, it scares me that some idiot is going to make false claims and create confusion. *Sigh*. I'm going to stick to meditation/yoga/spirituality.
     
  14. Ian Thompson

    Ian Thompson Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2013
    Messages:
    349
    Home Page:
    Just look at all the different views of even the people posting and reading this forum. Is there any single overall view that they could all accept and be lead thereby to the fullest spiritual life possible for them? I think not.
     
  15. Dmitch

    Dmitch New

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Messages:
    152
    Yes, we have to acknowledge that even as there is the 'human' experience in that there are common extrinsic conditioning factors and tendencies as well as intrinsic brain based commonalities. There are also a wide variety of personalities and ways people perceive, interpret and respond to their experience. We all read the stories, or know of people raised under severe circumstances who later led inspired lives because of the way they interpreted their experience. Also the opposite is true. We all have individual learning styles because of being a certain type of person. The NDE reports seem to reflect our diverse cognitive abilities. How could it be any different?
     
    Stephen Wright and Ian Gordon like this.
  16. K9!

    K9! New

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,597
    I agree. I think what many people forget is that an NDE is basically an ineffable experience. It makes perfect sense when you are in that expanded state of awareness, but then you come back here... and you have to make sense of things within a much more limited context. What you are able to carry back here with you depends a lot on you.
     
  17. David Eire

    David Eire New

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    338
    Well Alex sure gave this guest a difficult time of it.

    I want to suggest this perspective.
    Ian is obviously a christian fundamentalist and claims that his NDE confirms that christianity is the only way etc.
    I doubt if many other NDEers would agree with or support such a belief (which of course Ian regards not as a belief but as simply the truth).

    Personally I dont believe it for one moment. I dont believe the Divine places any conditions or restrictions on its love and care for all souls.

    But consider this....the only way news of NDEs could possibly penetrate into christian fundamentalist circles would be through testimony such as Ian's.
    Their paranoia about the devil and the new age etc closes them off from anything that is not purely christian fundamentalism.
    I suggest that in the bigger picture Ian is doing good work in bringing the good news of NDEs to christian fundamentalists.
     
    Ian Thompson likes this.
  18. Ian Gordon

    Ian Gordon Ninshub Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Messages:
    1,676
    In what way is it good work if that news is that only NDEs with a Christian fundamentalist message are real, and the rest are Lucifer's doing? Also: what exactly would be the "good news" in that context?
     
  19. Ian Thompson

    Ian Thompson Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2013
    Messages:
    349
    Home Page:
    The good news is that Christian fundamentalists begin to take NDEs more seriously, at least for their own group.

    MccCormack's original NDE did not involve Satan/Lucifer at all: that was only introduced later to support his strict interpretation of his NDE instruction to "read the Bible". That might seem to you to be a major defect in his ideas, but the question is the overall balance of good results for some people where previously there was ignorance about NDEs.
     
    Stephen Wright likes this.
  20. David Eire

    David Eire New

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    338
    Exactly as Ian Thompson said.
    Only a fundamentalist christian can bring the testimony of NDEs into the paranoid realm of christian fundamentalism.
    All their beliefs about lucifer and everyone who doesnt believe what they believe going to hell is entirely irrelevant...from the point of view of the Divine.
    I know many sincere & devout christians who are terrified of dying.

    Furthermore I dont know about you Ian Gordon, but for me the discovery of NDEs was very good news indeed; and continues to be.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2014

Share This Page