Mod+ 284. Why police don’t use psychic detectives? Even though they are effective.

#4
Alex's question at the end of the interview:

Alex thinks that police departments are less likely now to use psychic resources on account of successful sceptical pressure. What do you think about that?
 
#5
http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2013/09/practical-uses-of-esp-joe-mcmoneagle-on.html
The use of psychic detectives is more prevalent than is generally known because most law enforcement agencies will not admit they use psychic detectives and they are not willing to work with psychics who talk about being a psychic detective. Joseph McMoneagle, one of the worlds greatest psychics and military remoteviewer, discusses psychic detectives on in is blog post: Do you tell anyone?.
If you think you are that good and the information is that good, you pick up a phone and call someone at your local FBI Regional Headquarters and give them your name. You tell them you are a psychic [don't try and explain remote viewing, they don't care about it] and you have information you feel is important. Then you give them the information. They take it and put it all in the “Nut-bag File.” If it comes true, they will show up at your door and you will be seriously interviewed and asked where you were and what you were doing when it occurred. I hope you have a great alibi for where you were when it happened.
Now, you keep doing that, until you’ve established a track record that contains more accurate information than inaccurate information, at which point they will then take you out of the “Nut-bag File” and give you a confidential informant number, and may actually accept your phone calls. However, and this is critically important you hear this because I will only say this one time. If you tell anyone you are working for the Government or the FBI, and they find out you said that, you will go permanently into the “Nut-bag File” and they will never speak to you again. The rule is; if you talk about their business, they will have no business to do with you. And that is the same with every law enforcement agency I’ve ever had any knowledge of.
 
#6
Alex's question at the end of the interview:

Alex thinks that police departments are less likely now to use psychic resources on account of successful sceptical pressure. What do you think about that?
I think it's sad but true. I also think skeptical pressure is keeping parapsychologists from openly using psychics in research. Dean Radin stated this week on Art Bell's show that he would not consider using someone thought to be psychically gifted in experiments.
 
#7
Great interview!

Why do police departments shy away from using psychics even though they can be effective?

Since I am still viewing the world through my newly acquired lens of structure / anti-structure developed from "The Trickster and the Paranormal" by George P. Hansen, I'll answer accordingly... Police departments are highly structured hierarchical organizations and they exist to support societal structures and institutions. Consequently, their methods of operation must be highly structured and have the appearance of rationality. Since there is no known rational explanation for psychic phenomena, employing psychics undercuts the foundation of rationality and control that the structure of hierarchy is built upon. Yes psychics can be very effective at providing important information, but giving prominence to psychics takes a toll on the overall organism of the state in its current state of evolution.

Edit: the marginalization of psychics and the occult has been an important part of the development of the state and societal structures for ages. For example the Hebraic law has some very odd requirements that seem to be ridiculous unless you view them as a means to bring cohesiveness to a group. The outlawing of psychics and mediums is one such law.
 
#8
I think it's sad but true. I also think skeptical pressure is keeping parapsychologists from openly using psychics in research. Dean Radin stated this week on Art Bell's show that he would not consider using someone thought to be psychically gifted in experiments.
Interesting... why? I thought this was one of his areas of interest... i.e. extraordinarily gifted.
 
#9
Great interview!

Why do police departments shy away from using psychics even though they can be effective?

Since I am still viewing the world through my newly acquired lens of structure / anti-structure developed from "The Trickster and the Paranormal" by George P. Hansen, I'll answer accordingly... Police departments are highly structured hierarchical organizations and they exist to support societal structures and institutions. Consequently, their methods of operation must be highly structured and have the appearance of rationality. Since there is no known rational explanation for psychic phenomena, employing psychics undercuts the foundation of rationality and control that the structure of hierarchy is built upon. Yes psychics can be very effective at providing important information, but giving prominence to psychics takes a toll on the overall organism of the state in its current state of evolution.

Edit: the marginalization of psychics and the occult has been an important part of the development of the state and societal structures for ages. For example the Hebraic law has some very odd requirements that seem to be ridiculous unless you view them as a means to bring cohesiveness to a group. The outlawing of psychics and mediums is one such law.
Interesting... I've never really bought into Hansen's take the "trickster." And I'm not sure it fits here... I think cops have done a better job than other institutions (e.g. academia, church, government) at embracing psychics. Similar to the way doctors are more open to NDEs... both groups are more likely to go with whatever gets the job done.

I should have Hansen on some time.
 
#10
Interesting... why? I thought this was one of his areas of interest... i.e. extraordinarily gifted.
He said that it would encourage them to have big egos if they were successful at tests, if they weren't already afflicted as such.

I have to say that I was surprised to hear his comments.

EDIT: Doug was kind enough to provide a quote from Art Bell's interview with Dean Radin:

[In response to a caller who spoke about ego creating interference in psychic experiments]

Dean (1:57:20):

"She's completely correct in terms of ego getting in the way. That's definitely -- we see that in the lab a lot. That's one of the reasons, by the way, that we don't test people who come to us who claim to have special abilities. Because the moment that they learn that maybe they may have some kind of ability, their ego always becomes inflated, and we don't want to be responsible for that."
 
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C

Chris

#11
EDIT: Doug was kind enough to provide a quote from Art Bell's interview with Dean Radin:

[In response to a caller who spoke about ego creating interference in psychic experiments]

Dean (1:57:20):

"She's completely correct in terms of ego getting in the way. That's definitely -- we see that in the lab a lot. That's one of the reasons, by the way, that we don't test people who come to us who claim to have special abilities. Because the moment that they learn that maybe they may have some kind of ability, their ego always becomes inflated, and we don't want to be responsible for that."
I can imagine why he might not want to encourage a lot of people to approach him with claims that they have psychic powers. Could that just be a diplomatic way of putting it?
 
#12
I can imagine why he might not want to encourage a lot of people to approach him with claims that they have psychic powers. Could that just be a diplomatic way of putting it?
It could. But in the process he's essentially stated that all gifted psychics are not very nice people.
 
#15
When I lived in Flagstaff I worked in the Philosophy Dept. At one point, one of the graduate students had a dream about a woman who had just been killed. The dream was pre-cognitive or something. He made the mistake of sharing the info he got with law enforcement and was actually arrested for the murder. He was in jail for quite a while...if I remember correctly he even went to trial. He was eventually released.
 
#16
Is the issue maybe that psi just returns results that aren't concrete enough to satisfy the nahsayers? That maybe psi is just a somewhat faint signal that can't really be relied upon for absolute information...that's it's a vague source of information at best...it's real, but it's just not a strong enough signal to sway the fence-sitters?
 
#17
Is the issue maybe that psi just returns results that aren't concrete enough to satisfy the nahsayers? That maybe psi is just a somewhat faint signal that can't really be relied upon for absolute information...that's it's a vague source of information at best...it's real, but it's just not a strong enough signal to sway the fence-sitters?
Or they just don't know how what they are dealing with works exactly. The thing is, the more people shun psychic abilities and shy away from the faint signals, the less we learn and understand how or what exactly is going on.


I think it's a shame that the sceptics are so afraid, they choose to shut their eyes, rather than try to understand the slight glimpses being offered.
 
#18
Is the issue maybe that psi just returns results that aren't concrete enough to satisfy the nahsayers? That maybe psi is just a somewhat faint signal that can't really be relied upon for absolute information...that's it's a vague source of information at best...it's real, but it's just not a strong enough signal to sway the fence-sitters?
I don't think ψ evidence is ever used to convict someone directly - nor should it be! The aim is to lead police to a line of enquiry that results in conventional evidence that can be used to convict someone.

Lot's of police lines of inquiry lead nowhere - they don't need psychics to be totally accurate.

David
 
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#19
Alex,

Can you tell us something about the new (again) Skeptiko website - or was this interview perhaps recorded some time back when we were still on the old Skeptiko website?

David
 
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