A brief summary of paranormal entities based upon years of study

[gabriel]

Thank you for this interesting thread. What I am curious about -- and I know this may be outside of your realm of expertise -- is why negative hauntings and possessions seem to happen often enough to warrant data collection like this and books on exorcism, but there are no (similarly frequent?) occurrences of the "good" entities manifesting in the physical realm. I know some people do claim that angels help them, etc. but these good entities don't seem to be nearly as interested in going around physically asserting themselves or letting their existence be known. I wonder why this is -- if (a good) God exists?

In other words, why aren't there good angels/entities who, instead of leaving dead birds, leave some chocolate or help with the housework?

First, there are lots of positive interventions if you believe them, both negative and positive influences require belief in the testimony. Secondly, good entities may be less interested in intervening in the mortal plan. If you believe we exist materially for a reason, continued subversion of that materiality may undermine its purpose. Perhaps both are continually at play on a subtle level but rarely manifest into the physical domain. Thirdly, Christianity in which notions of the angelic and demonic are framed, insists on a story of the two forces embattled from some ancient time in the history of mankind. Whether you take the story literally or as a placeholder, it reflects what seems to be the reality of human nature.

 

[nbtruthman]

Very interesting, if rather alarming. A few comments:

- The universal spiritual system claimed by deep NDEers through their own direct realer-than-real experiences, and by very many spiritual channelers and psychic mediums, conflicts radically with the universal scheme involving a preeminence of evil forces that is implied by the phenomena Wormwood cites.

- How can these two very different claims about human reality be reconciled, or is only one the truth?
- If only one is the truth, which one?
- If only one is the truth, how can the mass of empirical evidence amassed by the other one be dismissed?

- Perhaps one should be wary of becoming too immersed in such matters, because to do so may dangerously open one up to the influence of evil forces.

 

[AryaS]

First, there are lots of positive interventions if you believe them, both negative and positive influences require belief in the testimony. Secondly, good entities may be less interested in intervening in the mortal plan. If you believe we exist materially for a reason, continued subversion of that materiality may undermine its purpose. Perhaps both are continually at play on a subtle level but rarely manifest into the physical domain. Thirdly, Christianity in which notions of the angelic and demonic are framed, insists on a story of the two forces embattled from some ancient time in the history of mankind. Whether you take the story literally or as a placeholder, it reflects what seems to be the reality of human nature.

I guess I haven't heard much about the evidence for the physical interventions of angels/positive beings in our physical realm. I have read about NDE experiences, but those involve seeing/experiencing those entities in another non-physical/after death realm. I have also read some stories by people who have had a near-death experience say they "felt" something rescue them (e.g, from a drowning, from a car accident, fire, etc.), but even these stories seem very different from the recurring physical manifestations Wormwood chronicles of negative entity hauntings (of a house or a family) or literal demonic possessions, where the being takes over the human, causing the human to spew curses in ancient languages or scare the wits out of other people. It certainly seems to me that the "bad entities" have a much stronger actual presence/foothold down here in the physical world -- and I find that curious/puzzling.

I guess I can understand the theory that the "good" entities might be more respectful of the overall plan (?) and thus not willing to continually intrude on a human's sovereignty in this realm, but then why intrude at all in some cases -- so that the rest of us have to rely on other people's NDE/OBE experiences for "proof" of an afterlife?

 

[gabriel]

I guess I can understand the theory that the "good" entities might be more respectful of the overall plan (?) and thus not willing to continually intrude on a human's sovereignty in this realm, but then why intrude at all in some cases -- so that the rest of us have to rely on other people's NDE/OBE experiences for "proof" of an afterlife?

It seems to be more complicated than that. Many, perhaps a majority of psychic infestations (possession, haunting, poltergeists) appear to be the result of invitations to manifest, things like Ouija boards, ghost "hunting" and similar activities. They can't account for all instances, but there seems to be a correlation. I think there's evidence that other obsessive behaviour gives such entities an opportunity to gain a hold in the lives of human beings. There's an almost folkloric symmetry to the request-receive pattern of hidden information, with rewards having a disproportionate penalty to be paid.

An example in one of Colin Wilson's books concerned someone who was so obsessed with horse racing that he began experimenting with a planchette to obtain future racing results. He contacted an entity with a remarkable record with winning outsiders, but his winnings bought complete misery and personal losses and physical and mental heath outweighed the money he won. (dinner time, so can't elaborate on the idea)

 

[nbtruthman]

I guess I haven't heard much about the evidence for the physical interventions of angels/positive beings in our physical realm.

There seem to be a lot of accounts of angelic intervention happening in everyday life, though not anywhere near the number of NDEs reported. For instance this compendium. There doesn't appear to be anywhere near the empirical veridical evidence, that has been accumulated in good NDE accounts.

"...there are degrees of (apparently angelic) encounters:

Encounter of the first kind: Receiving of some information, object or gift that is attributed to angelic intervention.
Encounter of the second kind: The sighting of what appears to be an angelic being, without interaction.
Encounter of the third kind: Interaction with what is assumed by the experiencer to be an angelic being.

These are highly subjective experiences, of course, and are strongly influenced by people's belief systems. So what are we to make of the stories that follow, which we're told by the experiencers are true? I'll leave that for you to decide."

 

[Laird]

For instance this compendium.

Nice resource, thanks for that. The link's broken though: I had to copy it to open it, and found in the process of doing that that the problem is a preceding "http:// " that you need to delete from it.

 

[Wormwood]

You may like this data.

I just found this Ph.D. Clinical Psychologist who spent decades compiling data about schizophrenic individuals experiencing auditory hallucinations (voices) in mental institutions.

Interesting things he says:

* The Voices NEVER say anything positive, only negative. If "The Voices" are a random chemical phenomena, they should say positive things at least some of the time.

* The Voices detest formal religion.

* The Voices assist criminals by providing super-natural knowledge regarding locations, people, and police.

There's more, but I've only listened to about 4 hours of interviews with this guy. I don't know much about "demonology", and I'm really not very interested in it, I just thought you might like this data.

Dr. Jerry Marzinsky. He is not hawking a book or promoting any ideology. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBNoxH3e_xoufUo4MTVJ2XQ

wow, thanks a lot for the info. Thats incredibly interesting.

 

[Wormwood]

Very interesting, if rather alarming. A few comments:

- The universal spiritual system claimed by deep NDEers through their own direct realer-than-real experiences, and by very many spiritual channelers and psychic mediums, conflicts radically with the universal scheme involving a preeminence of evil forces that is implied by the phenomena Wormwood cites.

- How can these two very different claims about human reality be reconciled, or is only one the truth?
- If only one is the truth, which one?
- If only one is the truth, how can the mass of empirical evidence amassed by the other one be dismissed?

- Perhaps one should be wary of becoming too immersed in such matters, because to do so may dangerously open one up to the influence of evil forces.

Ya know what? That was one of the very reasons i stopped (mostly) reading about it. A couple of demonologists have put forth theory (one of them being Ed Warren) that you may be able to bring paranormal activity upon yourself by wishing or obbssessing over it. I am not sure what sort of experience or "data" they are basing those theories on of course, but it is something that I sort of thought about separately and sort of decided to stop doing. I now find NDE experiences and things of the sort more fascinating.

As for the first part of your post, there are a number of "dNDE's" (distressing near death experiences) which many report. It is a well established phenomenon and these people do report seeing "horrible creatures" and things of the sort and some are either tormented by them or witness others being tormented upon by them. Seems maybe 1 in 10 or 15 or so people has what is known as this "distressing NDE." So I really don't see the NDE data as being contradictory towards traditional "demonology." At least not as I personally see it. I don't see it being directly contradictory towards the mediumship data either. Maybe theres something in particular about the phenomenons that you feel are contradictory that I don't see?

 

[Wormwood]

It seems to be more complicated than that. Many, perhaps a majority of psychic infestations (possession, haunting, poltergeists) appear to be the result of invitations to manifest, things like Ouija boards, ghost "hunting" and similar activities. They can't account for all instances, but there seems to be a correlation. I think there's evidence that other obsessive behaviour gives such entities an opportunity to gain a hold in the lives of human beings. There's an almost folkloric symmetry to the request-receive pattern of hidden information, with rewards having a disproportionate penalty to be paid.

An example in one of Colin Wilson's books concerned someone who was so obsessed with horse racing that he began experimenting with a planchette to obtain future racing results. He contacted an entity with a remarkable record with winning outsiders, but his winnings bought complete misery and personal losses and physical and mental heath outweighed the money he won. (dinner time, so can't elaborate on the idea)

Ive come across A TON of cases where people yell out and make a pact to "anybody or anything with the power to give them what they want." And they get what they asked for, usually in some twisted way or sometimes in the very way they wished. Only to see their lives torn apart shortly thereafter.

 

[Wormwood]

Nothing in that suggests Luciferianism. Not sure what your Liberation Theology point is, Malachi Martin is at the opposite end of the spectrum to Marxist influenced religion.

Martin has had an incredible amount of people take shots at him over the years. Its hard for me to understand why, but Ive almost never seen such unwarranted criticism. I suppose its due largely because his beliefs don't line up with others. But the people who dont like his philosophies had always taken the low road and attempted various ridiculous smear campaigns about him.

I guess I haven't heard much about the evidence for the physical interventions of angels/positive beings in our physical realm. I have read about NDE experiences, but those involve seeing/experiencing those entities in another non-physical/after death realm. I have also read some stories by people who have had a near-death experience say they "felt" something rescue them (e.g, from a drowning, from a car accident, fire, etc.), but even these stories seem very different from the recurring physical manifestations Wormwood chronicles of negative entity hauntings (of a house or a family) or literal demonic possessions, where the being takes over the human, causing the human to spew curses in ancient languages or scare the wits out of other people. It certainly seems to me that the "bad entities" have a much stronger actual presence/foothold down here in the physical world -- and I find that curious/puzzling.

I guess I can understand the theory that the "good" entities might be more respectful of the overall plan (?) and thus not willing to continually intrude on a human's sovereignty in this realm, but then why intrude at all in some cases -- so that the rest of us have to rely on other people's NDE/OBE experiences for "proof" of an afterlife?

Those experiences are out there. But I think they are harder to find. Partly, perhaps, because it doesnt make as exciting a story.

 

[nbtruthman]

Nice resource, thanks for that. The link's broken though: I had to copy it to open it, and found in the process of doing that that the problem is a preceding "http:// " that you need to delete from it.

Thanks for the alert. I've fixed the link.

 

[AryaS]

Ive come across A TON of cases where people yell out and make a pact to "anybody or anything with the power to give them what they want." And they get what they asked for, usually in some twisted way or sometimes in the very way they wished. Only to see their lives torn apart shortly thereafter.

I hope this is not too off-topic to your main topic on negative paranormal entities -- but I am really interested in hearing your (and other people's) thoughts about this podcast.

The interview is with an esoteric scholar/author (Peter Mark Adams) of a new book, The Game of Saturn, which is all about this tarot-ish-deck that was privately commissioned during the Renaissance by one of the ruling Venetian families and that only fairly recently resurfaced (and apparently is now being displayed in a Milan museum). The deck's images are very disturbing and very dark (some explicitly demonic) -- and the author suggests that this deck was used as a grimoire by this ruling family to help them, among other things: channel/be possessed by demons, converse with the Demiurge, and ensure reincarnation into the same ruling family (families?). So, the Renaissance version of an Ouija board I guess. The author says the deck explicitly rejects all 'christian' symbolism that was typical to most tarot decks -- and uses only older pagan/Orphic symbolism.

What I also wonder is, if the Game of Saturn author's theory (that certain ruling families actually channeled demons to stay in power) is true, then why is it that in the individual cases you note above, the person channeling demons often (always?) ends up ruined/destroyed, but ruling families who did (do?) the same on a more organized level did not seem to suffer the same ruinous ends -- or maybe they did?

https://www.thehighersidechats.com/peter-mark-adams-game-of-saturn/

This also kind of relates to stuff I'm reading right now in Colin Wilson's book about the rise of Sorcery vs. (good) Shamanism. Is there a point to all this dark vs. light?

 

[Wormwood]

Yea for sure, I’ll check it out and get back with some thoughts.

 

[Charlie Primero]

Malachi Martin is at the opposite end of the spectrum to Marxist influenced religion.

It would be discourteous to wad up this thread regarding Demonology by inserting a complex deep dive into Malachi Martin and Vatican Two.

I will simply state my opinion. You can start a new thread on the topic, but I'm not able to converse on the finer points of Catholic theology. I know more about the 2,000 year conspiracy of The Enemy, so I come at things from that base.

Basically, Martin was a Jesuit which I think is Gnosticism. He was a Jewish agent who was paid $700,000 in today's dollars to publish popular articles declaring Catholicism = Nazism. Those articles helped Nostra Aetate pass which basically destroyed the Church.

 

[gabriel]

It would be discourteous to wad up this thread regarding Demonology by inserting a complex deep dive into Malachi Martin and Vatican Two.

I will simply state my opinion. You can start a new thread on the topic, but I'm not able to converse on the finer points of Catholic theology. I know more about the 2,000 year conspiracy of The Enemy, so I come at things from that base.

Basically, Martin was a Jesuit which I think is Gnosticism. He was a Jewish agent who was paid $700,000 in today's dollars to publish popular articles declaring Catholicism = Nazism. Those articles helped Nostra Aetate pass which basically destroyed the Church.

Oh dear. You've swallowed an age old conspiracy theory I'm afraid, and one which is emblematic of join the dots conspiracies in general. It derives from the fact his name is Malachi, which was fashionable for a time in traditional Irish society and has absolutely nothing to do with Zionism. Mary and Marion were popular boys names, too, so perhaps there was a transsexual cult in the offing (!) Neither are Jesuits Gnostics, of any variety.

Malachi Martin was part of a movement that had been coming to a head some decades before Vatican II, which saw the church as betraying its traditions and apostolic lineage. In particular there was a feeling that freemasonry had infiltrated its higher offices, a claim which came to prominence in Fatima. I have no idea whether this accusation was true, and there's no way of telling as it is itself a conspiracy theory, but the mind set was linked with some rather unsavoury right wing politics which have dogged traditionalism since. Most of what we know of Malachi Martin is what he's told us, which ain't much, but is pretty typical of the mood among some clergy at the time, who found the challenge of the pill, masses in the vernacular, and the new broom of the peasant Giuseppe Roncalli (Pope John XXIII) and his successor Giovanni Montini (Pope Paul VI) too ecumenical and democratic for their taste.

Martin's disaffection with the church, and his obsession with the immanent diabolical, is one manifestation of this cultural split. I'm not saying he's wrong, though I suspect some of the more lurid aspects are showmanship, but his position can be explained by a knowledge of church history, none of which requires the intervention, financial or otherwise, of Zion. As to whether the church has been destroyed, it depends which church and where. Globally Catholicism is bigger than its ever been, and while the West has seen church attendance fall, the decline is nowhere near as marked as among Anglicans, who had nothing to do with Vatican II. If you want a conspiracy to run with, you might ask why the likes of Richard Dawkins are allowed to propound their metaphysical world view in the media, without comment or challenge, and who decides his fundamentalist liberal opinions are sacred writ and the received wisdom of gentlemen.

 

[nbtruthman]

As for the first part of your post, there are a number of "dNDE's" (distressing near death experiences) which many report. It is a well established phenomenon and these people do report seeing "horrible creatures" and things of the sort and some are either tormented by them or witness others being tormented upon by them. Seems maybe 1 in 10 or 15 or so people has what is known as this "distressing NDE." So I really don't see the NDE data as being contradictory towards traditional "demonology." At least not as I personally see it. I don't see it being directly contradictory towards the mediumship data either. Maybe theres something in particular about the phenomenons that you feel are contradictory that I don't see?

The incidence of distressing or fearful NDEs is an interesting if alarming phenomenon. I did a little research on this.

IANDS has compiled some data on distressing NDEs (https://iands.org/distressing-near-death-experiences.html). Some paraphrased excerpts:

Greyson and Bush (1996) classified 50 reports of distressing NDEs into three types. The first two types were relatively mild. The third and rarest type of distressing NDEs included hellish imagery such as an ugly or foreboding landscape; demonic beings; loud, annoying noises; frightening animals; and other beings in extreme distress. Only rarely have such NDErs themselves felt personally tormented.

The estimated incidence of distressing NDEs (dNDEs) has ranged from 1% to 15% of all NDEs (Bonenfant, 2001). The results of prospective studies in which the researchers interviewed everyone who experienced cardiac arrest in one or more hospitals during a period of at least several months are noteworthy. In the four prospective studies conducted between 1984 and 2001 involving a total of 130 NDErs, none reported distressing experiences. This finding seems to confirm that the experience is relatively rare.

However, dNDEs may occur more frequently than they are reported. This could be due to unconscious repression, or more likely because the distressing NDEer avoided talking about the bad experience for various reasons.

The way one dies may be a factor in the type of NDE one has. Rommer found that dNDErs who had self-induced their deaths made up 55% of people in her research who reported a Type II Eternal Void experience, 18% who reported a Type III Hellish experience, and most of those who reported a Type IV Negative Judgment experience. Although it may be tempting to conclude that people who attempt suicide are being punished for trying to induce their own deaths, we must avoid this temptation."



P.M.H. Atwater has compiled some data on distressing NDEs described in the near-death website (www.near-death.com/science/evidence/common-elements-are-found-in-ndes.html):

Spirits amongst the living - overall, 19% of the 50 NDEs surveyed had some sort of feature like this. "In this category the highest percentage who witnessed "ghosts" or "earthbound discarnates" or so-called "demons" on Earth trying to influence the living, are the Christians. The lowest percentages were in the non-Christian, new age, and atheist categories. More Christian NDErs (25%) saw spirits among the living on Earth. One possible explanation for this might be the strong belief amongst Christians in demons. This may be an example of "getting what you expect." Those in the atheists, non-religious and new age categories may be less likely to believe in so-called "demons.""

Hell - overall, 10% of the NDEs surveyed had some sort of feature like this. "In this category the highest percentage seeing hell were those in the Christian category. The lowest percentage were the non-religious. The high percentage of Christians going to hell is likely because of their firm belief in it and they are "getting what they expect" in this category. Non-religious people would be least likely to believe in hell and the statistic above may be reflecting this. They may be "getting what they expect" as well....The non-religious category may be "getting what they expect" because they probably did not expect seeing a hell."


NDE researcher Barbara Rommer did a study of distressing NDEs and wrote a book on them ((Rommer, B. (2000). Blessing in disguise: Another side of the near-death experience. St. Paul, MN: Llewellyn Publications). From www.nderf.org/NDERF/EvidenceAfterlife/evidence/Frightening_NDEs.htm :

"Rommer believes frightening NDEs occur for three reasons. These three reasons are 1) a motivation to the NDEr to reconsider prior choices, thoughts, and beliefs, 2) the presence of a less than loving mindset immediately prior to the NDE, and 3) due to negative programming during childhood.

Consistent with the aftereffects of pleasant NDEs, Dr. Rommer found those experiencing frightening NDEs often had substantial positive life changes, including a greatly reduced fear of death. Moreover, some individuals experiencing frightening NDEs came to view the experiences as a gift, and perhaps the most important experience of their lives. As with pleasant NDEs, changes following frightening NDEs may require many years to fully manifest.

Many prior NDE studies used the term “negative” to describe NDEs that were frightening or hellish. The term “negative” is inappropriate, as they often result in the same positive life changes resulting from pleasant NDEs. This is why the term “frightening” is the more appropriate term for these NDEs. Others have referred to them as “distressing”, which is also a good term. Although the term “frightening” expresses the emotion of the experience, it overlooks the reduction of fear, including the fear of death, which often occurs as an aftereffect of a frightening NDE."

This is one researcher's (informed) opinion. Ultimately the distressing NDEs are a mystery.

 

[Wormwood]

What I also wonder is, if the Game of Saturn author's theory (that certain ruling families actually channeled demons to stay in power) is true, then why is it that in the individual cases you note above, the person channeling demons often (always?) ends up ruined/destroyed, but ruling families who did (do?) the same on a more organized level did not seem to suffer the same ruinous ends -- or maybe they did?

Interesting Podcast. It's a good question, one that, of course, we cannot answer with any level of certainty. It's really hard to discern what the motivations of these entities are in different cases. It does, however, seem pretty obvious that they are unfriendly towards people. It may very well be that the "demonic" has/had a hold on this family and found it more beneficial for their purposes to let them continue to exist in good health and in good power in order to perform (in some capacity in some way) the bidding of the demonic. Perhaps these people were putting policies into place or behaving in a way such that it helped the dark entities achieve their ultimate goal. ie-in this case and perhaps in many others it wouldn't directly serve the dark forces to torment these people on a personal level, but to work with or through them to achieve some larger purpose. Also, perhaps these people really were tormented to some degree on a personal level. I can't imagine that these forces would enrich these people's lives and make them feel happy with a sense of fulfillment in any way except to maybe satisfy their lust for power, but only because it directly accords with the demonic purpose. But as I see it, lust for power is in no way "good" or "holy."

 

[Wormwood]

An interesting case relevant to the current conversation