Anneke Lucas, Recovering From Unimaginable Evil |441|

Epstein was murdered. We agree there. I'm guessing you then agree that he was part of a pedo-ring in order to procure girls?

I can understand if you deny he's into any SRA stuff. Fine. Besides weird occult temples and sundials on his island I agree there is no real evidence for that, only speculation.

But what you seem to be saying is that he didn't use his connections at all in order to cover his tracks? Even though the first accusation against him of sexual assault was in the 90's.

That none of his connections of elite level people were into the same pedophilia besides him?

How can you say that for this conversation that is neither here nor there? This strikes to the heart of elite-level connected pedo individuals influencing the world. (Saying they "rule the world" is an example of black and white thinking. You talk a big game about black and white thinking but then keep engaging in it yourself.)

Although I will say there was some conspiratorial elements in the 9/11 towers coming down
With Baccarat saying that does that make him a "poor" person...or equally a sick person that needs help and is part of the problem?

What alone is dark stuff is an ignoramus with limited ability to reason and with paranoid leanings spreading sinister rumors to scare people and make them feel bad about their society and themselves - and to glorify himself in a weird and dishonest way.
You're saying that overthrowing other peaceful countries, poisoning and torturing your own people isn't dark stuff? Only little me spouting some facts as well as some theories is dark? That's messed up if you honestly believe that.

Look, I do agree political opportunists do take and run with this stuff. I just finished reading The Smear by Sharyl Attkisson which I thought was quite illuminating on the topic. For instance, I am not convinced that the Clinton's are satanist pedophiles. But we know they're liars involved in many scandals. And judging by the number of convicted pedophiles they are surrounded by, I do think it is suspicious and worth talking about, rather than labeling as a sick and twisted conspiracy theory in order to shut down conversation.

What is with all the insults? I really was hoping for more from this forum than that ignorant behavior.
 
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Epstein was murdered; which is neither here nor there.

The finders was a little cult of very sick people. The FBI reports that were released under FOIA and are used by conspiracy theorists to prove the CIA and Illluminati were behind the cult are taken out of context by idiots. It's clear that the reports are describing what the FBI was told - and follow upped - by various sources; including politicians that had weaponized the discovery of the little cult. In an investigation all kind of false leads are offered and need to be drilled into. A lead is just a lead. It's not a material fact.

What alone is dark stuff is an ignoramus with limited ability to reason and with paranoid leanings spreading sinister rumors to scare people and make them feel bad about their society and themselves - and to glorify himself in a weird and dishonest way.
Illuminati are notjinf
Epstein was murdered. We agree there. I'm guessing you then agree that he was part of a pedo-ring in order to procure girls?

I can understand if you deny he's into any SRA stuff. Fine. Besides weird occult temples and sundials on his island I agree there is no real evidence for that, only speculation.

But what you seem to be saying is that he didn't use his connections at all in order to cover his tracks? Even though the first accusation against him of sexual assault was in the 90's.

That none of his connections of elite level people were into the same pedophilia besides him?

How can you say that for this conversation that is neither here nor there? This strikes to the heart of elite-level connected pedo individuals influencing the world. (Saying they "rule the world" is an example of black and white thinking. You talk a big game about black and white thinking but then keep engaging in it yourself.)



With Baccarat saying that does that make him a "poor" person...or equally a sick person that needs help and is part of the problem?



You're saying that overthrowing other peaceful countries, poisoning and torturing your own people isn't dark stuff? Only little me spouting some facts as well as some theories is dark? That's messed up if you honestly believe that.

Look, I do agree political opportunists do take and run with this stuff. I just finished reading The Smear by Sharyl Attkisson which I thought was quite illuminating on the topic. For instance, I am not convinced that the Clinton's are satanist pedophiles. But we know they're liars involved in many scandals. And judging by the number of convicted pedophiles they are surrounded by, I do think it is suspicious and worth talking about, rather than labeling as a sick and twisted conspiracy theory in order to shut down conversation.

What is with all the insults? I really was hoping for more from this forum than that ignorant behavior.
Temples don't nessacarily denote satanic aka cosplay rituals, many cultural worship many different idols for example the Serapis which is a bull, this happened before Satan was a made up concept.
 
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Epstein was murdered. We agree there. I'm guessing you then agree that he was part of a pedo-ring in order to procure girls?

I can understand if you deny he's into any SRA stuff. Fine. Besides weird occult temples and sundials on his island I agree there is no real evidence for that, only speculation.

But what you seem to be saying is that he didn't use his connections at all in order to cover his tracks? Even though the first accusation against him of sexual assault was in the 90's.

That none of his connections of elite level people were into the same pedophilia besides him?

How can you say that for this conversation that is neither here nor there? This strikes to the heart of elite-level connected pedo individuals influencing the world. (Saying they "rule the world" is an example of black and white thinking. You talk a big game about black and white thinking but then keep engaging in it yourself.)



With Baccarat saying that does that make him a "poor" person...or equally a sick person that needs help and is part of the problem?



You're saying that overthrowing other peaceful countries, poisoning and torturing your own people isn't dark stuff? Only little me spouting some facts as well as some theories is dark? That's messed up if you honestly believe that.

Look, I do agree political opportunists do take and run with this stuff. I just finished reading The Smear by Sharyl Attkisson which I thought was quite illuminating on the topic. For instance, I am not convinced that the Clinton's are satanist pedophiles. But we know they're liars involved in many scandals. And judging by the number of convicted pedophiles they are surrounded by, I do think it is suspicious and worth talking about, rather than labeling as a sick and twisted conspiracy theory in order to shut down conversation.

What is with all the insults? I really was hoping for more from this forum than that ignorant behavior.
For me my suspicions are in the fact of how can knife wielding men take over a plane with dozens of people on board?
And of course tower 7
 
I gave an interview to Jasun over at The Liminalist recently, which I was unsure about allowing him to publish but have given him the go-ahead. Maybe he'll release it eventually if my hesitance after recording didn't turn him off too much. My personal history is a lot to recount - but in short, as a teenager (age 13-19), I prostituted myself to pedophile men and women, through the internet, and was involved in the on-line pedophile/ child pornography underground in the late 90s.

When Pizzagate was breaking and SRA was becoming all the rage again, I took to the dark web (not unlike the student Baccarat referred to) to see if what I knew from my time as a teenager would get me back into that world easily and perhaps put myself in the position to do some sort of activism around this issue. (Let's put aside arguments about the reality or unreality of certain aspects of Pizzagate for the purpose of this particular line of discussion) I had a snoop around - things were much worse than in the 90s in terms of numbers of users and proliferation of material.

I share this unflattering info about myself to get to a point which I think everyone so convinced of SRA needs to confront: Why is there no actual hard evidence (other than anecdotes and interpretations of crime scenes by Christians)? Why is there no satanic flavor to ANY material in the online CP communities? I never saw a single image, story, or hint of anything cultic or Satanic in my 6 years as a teenager in those communities and my month snooping around a few years back. Why is that? I'm not saying it's because there is no truth to SRA... but maybe it is.
 
I want to add I even have friends and family friends that swear they have either been victims of SRA cults as children or have helped get people out of SRA cults. My TMJD specialist dentist, who supposedly part of a clandestine network which is somehow church related, claims he harbored a girl who ran away from one after she was impregnated by her father and forced to watch the cult kill her baby on the altar. My mom's good friend and yoga instructor claims that her parents were SRA cult leaders and when she tried to tell her school teachers they killed her pet dog in front of her and said she'd be next if she talked again.

Even still, I don't blindly believe these people. None of this is as simple as just believing people because they have a story that is hard to believe or we "don't want to believe."

I'm with Eric that believing the vast conspiracy is actually the easier route and it's a very weak argument to say that people are trying to poke holes in this because they don't want to really look. I've really looked, way further and harder than most people. What I've come back with is much much more nuanced than any of the pro-SRA theory guests on Skeptiko so far.
 
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I want to add I even have friends and family friends that swear they have either been victims of SRA cults as children or have helped get people out of SRA cults. My TMJD specialist dentist, who supposedly part of a clandestine network which is somehow church related, claims he harbored a girl who ran away from one after she was impregnated by her father and forced to watch the cult kill her baby on the altar. My mom's good friend and yoga instructor claims that her parents were SRA cult leaders and when she tried to tell her school teachers they killed her pet dog in front of her and said she'd be next if she talked again.

Even still, I don't blindly believe these people. None of this is as simple as just believing people because they have a story that is hard to believe or we "don't want to believe."

I'm with Eric that believing the vast conspiracy is actually the easier route and it's a very weak argument to say that people are trying to poke holes in this because they don't want to really look. I've really looked, way further and harder than most people. What I've come back with is much much more nuanced than any of the pro-SRA theory guests on Skeptiko so far.
Thank you for sharing and I hope your soul finds the peace it needs
 
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I want to add I even have friends and family friends that swear they have either been victims of SRA cults as children or have helped get people out of SRA cults. My TMJD specialist dentist, who supposedly part of a clandestine network which is somehow church related, claims he harbored a girl who ran away from one after she was impregnated by her father and forced to watch the cult kill her baby on the altar. My mom's good friend and yoga instructor claims that her parents were SRA cult leaders and when she tried to tell her school teachers they killed her pet dog in front of her and said she'd be next if she talked again.

Even still, I don't blindly believe these people. None of this is as simple as just believing people because they have a story that is hard to believe or we "don't want to believe."

I'm with Eric that believing the vast conspiracy is actually the easier route and it's a very weak argument to say that people are trying to poke holes in this because they don't want to really look. I've really looked, way further and harder than most people. What I've come back with is much much more nuanced than any of the pro-SRA theory guests on Skeptiko so far.
I'm curious though is their like an community of these people outside the internet? Do they have meetups or places to hide or is just a loosely based network?
 
Thank you for sharing and I hope your soul finds the peace it needs
Thanks, I appreciate the sentiment. It's pretty well integrated and I'm at peace with it at this point in my life. These kinds of things happen. I don't think they will ever stop. This sort of thing may happen less if more people can be frank about what they've experienced and less hysterical about the potential implications. That is a tall order, though. It's not like I want to go on camera and give my legal name and share my experience and perspective on these matters; not many others do either... mostly it is those who seem to have an agenda or a yarn to spin (Dizdar and Lucas, respectively, in my estimation).

I'm curious though is their like an community of these people outside the internet? Do they have meetups or places to hide or is just a loosely based network?
Pedophiles? Yes, of course, there are communities outside of the internet. Pedophile rings and networks existed well before the internet. Look no further than PIE in the UK and NAMBLA in the US for much larger and organized instances. It seems highly unlikely there are no remnants of those networks now, that none of the groomed into them back then aren't perps now. There are all shapes/sizes/flavors to any kind of criminality and the associated networks.
 
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Thanks, I appreciate the sentiment. It's pretty well integrated and I'm at peace with it at this point in my life. These kinds of things happen. I don't think they will ever stop. This sort of thing may happen less if more people can be frank about what they've experienced and less hysterical about the potential implications. That is a tall order, though. It's not like I want to go on camera and give my legal name and share my experience and perspective on these matters; not many others do either... mostly it is those who seem to have an agenda or a yarn to spin (Dizdar and Lucas, respectively, in my estimation).


Pedophiles? Yes, of course, there are communities outside of the internet. Pedophile rings and networks existed well before the internet. Look no further than PIE in the UK and NAMBLA in the US for much larger and organized instances. It seems highly unlikely there are no remnants of those networks now, that none of the groomed into them back then aren't perps now. There are all shapes/sizes/flavors to any kind of criminality and the associated networks.
Interesting what percentage of people do you think are involved? I'm also curious about women pedophiles as well is there a good portion of them? That demographic seems to get overlooked until recently with all the teacher student trisks going on.
Should I assume many of my neighbors are involved what should we look out for?
 
I don’t know. I have no reason to believe the academic psychological community’s estimates of 1-5% of the population being pedophiles is wildly off.

If it’s 1% - that’s 750 million pedophiles globally; and if 1% of them are involved in networks of some kind - that’s 750 thousand networked pedophiles.

In the online pedo underground, “pedomoms” are definitely less prevalent. I can’t estimate the percentage. They are definitely sought after and heralded by a subset of the men.

Assumptions like that don’t seem healthy or helpful. I can’t say what to look out for, a lot of these people would pass as completely “normal” otherwise.
 

Alex

Administrator
I want to add I even have friends and family friends that swear they have either been victims of SRA cults as children or have helped get people out of SRA cults. My TMJD specialist dentist, who supposedly part of a clandestine network which is somehow church related, claims he harbored a girl who ran away from one after she was impregnated by her father and forced to watch the cult kill her baby on the altar. My mom's good friend and yoga instructor claims that her parents were SRA cult leaders and when she tried to tell her school teachers they killed her pet dog in front of her and said she'd be next if she talked again.

Even still, I don't blindly believe these people. None of this is as simple as just believing people because they have a story that is hard to believe or we "don't want to believe."

I'm with Eric that believing the vast conspiracy is actually the easier route and it's a very weak argument to say that people are trying to poke holes in this because they don't want to really look. I've really looked, way further and harder than most people. What I've come back with is much much more nuanced than any of the pro-SRA theory guests on Skeptiko so far.
thanks for sharing all this. I know it must be very difficult.

Here's where I'm leaning based on my investigation so far:
- the"satanic " part of SRA is a metaphor... a placeholder. that is not to say people aren't engaged in practices that seek to align them with extended Consciousness entities that we would identify as "satanic" because there's enough of hard evidence of this. but what really muddies the waters is that this partnership with monovalent forces does not seem to be monolithic in the way that Christians imagine.

- so, in my interview with Anneke I was surprised when she mentioned the cult who was abusing her was "satanic"... I had not heard her mention this in the previous interviews. we have to factor this underreporting into the equation.

- I think Russ gave a pretty fair accounting of some of the different groups involved.

- this stuff can quickly become a stare into the abyss... for me, I keep coming back to my main point and that is that there are entities in the extended Realm didn't seem to be interested in being apart of this evil in our world.
 
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thanks for sharing all this. I know it must be very difficult.

Here's where I'm leaning based on my investigation so far:
- the"satanic " part of SRA is a metaphor... a placeholder. that is not to say people aren't engaged in practices that seek to align them with extended Consciousness entities that we would identify as "satanic" because there's enough of hard evidence of this. but what really muddies the waters is that this partnership with monovalent forces does not seem to be monolithic in the way that Christians imagine.

- so, in my interview with Anneke I was surprised when she mentioned the cult who was abusing her was "satanic"... I had not heard her mention this in the previous interviews. we have to factor this underreporting into the equation.

- I think Russ gave a pretty fair accounting of some of the different groups involved.

- this stuff can quickly become a stare into the abyss... for me, I keep coming back to my main point and that is that there are entities in the extended Realm didn't seem to be interested in being apart of this evil in our world.
Why would seemingly lower entities bother with this material realm? And who are we to believe someone who claims to work with entities? Should we take what they say at face value? I mean what benefit does one gain from "working with entities"? We all live grow old if we are fortunate and die. Surely working with entities would be a waste of time. Surely not immortality, I have a practical approach to entities, similar to Jung, entities could be suppressed or buried emotions, thoughts or our lower human nature we bury under many masks which manifest culturally as the demons and devils and angels we believe them to look like through movies, drawings and such.
 
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thanks for sharing all this. I know it must be very difficult.

Here's where I'm leaning based on my investigation so far:
- the"satanic " part of SRA is a metaphor... a placeholder. that is not to say people aren't engaged in practices that seek to align them with extended Consciousness entities that we would identify as "satanic" because there's enough of hard evidence of this. but what really muddies the waters is that this partnership with monovalent forces does not seem to be monolithic in the way that Christians imagine.

- so, in my interview with Anneke I was surprised when she mentioned the cult who was abusing her was "satanic"... I had not heard her mention this in the previous interviews. we have to factor this underreporting into the equation.

- I think Russ gave a pretty fair accounting of some of the different groups involved.

- this stuff can quickly become a stare into the abyss... for me, I keep coming back to my main point and that is that there are entities in the extended Realm didn't seem to be interested in being apart of this evil in our world.
Don't stare too long in to the abyss
 
thanks for sharing all this. I know it must be very difficult.

Here's where I'm leaning based on my investigation so far:
- the"satanic " part of SRA is a metaphor... a placeholder. that is not to say people aren't engaged in practices that seek to align them with extended Consciousness entities that we would identify as "satanic" because there's enough of hard evidence of this. but what really muddies the waters is that this partnership with monovalent forces does not seem to be monolithic in the way that Christians imagine.

- so, in my interview with Anneke I was surprised when she mentioned the cult who was abusing her was "satanic"... I had not heard her mention this in the previous interviews. we have to factor this underreporting into the equation.

- I think Russ gave a pretty fair accounting of some of the different groups involved.

- this stuff can quickly become a stare into the abyss... for me, I keep coming back to my main point and that is that there are entities in the extended Realm didn't seem to be interested in being apart of this evil in our world.
I don’t think you can have it both ways here, Alex. Getting the details right (of which Lucas has absolutely none - see Eric’s plentitude of pulling apart her flimsy story) is necessary, if you have to “stare” to do so, it’s not really what the word “staring” implies. It sounds like an excuse for making generalizations and just leaving it to the word of people like Dizdar and Lucas. And then you say others won’t believe because they don’t want to look... yet if we talk too much about the details it’s abyss staring? Feels like a cop out to me.

I will have to read Dizdar’s book to see what’s there; but his interview, to me, was not a “fair accounting” of the groups involved. It was more an amalgamation of internet memes about SRA and ignorance of western esotericism/occultism.
 

Alex

Administrator
yet if we talk too much about the details it’s abyss staring?
I'm ok with hashing out the details. I don't get the "flimsy" thing re Lucas or Russ... then again, everyone has an opinion... some folks think LHO was a lone nut assassin, 9/11 was Bin Laden's fault, and Epstein's demise was due to sleepy prison guards...
Barr calls Jeffrey Epstein's death a 'perfect storm of screw-ups'

"staring" into the abyss is a personal call... everyone has a diff standard.
 
I'm ok with hashing out the details. I don't get the "flimsy" thing re Lucas or Russ... then again, everyone has an opinion... some folks think LHO was a lone nut assassin, 9/11 was Bin Laden's fault, and Epstein's demise was due to sleepy prison guards...
Barr calls Jeffrey Epstein's death a 'perfect storm of screw-ups'

"staring" into the abyss is a personal call... everyone has a diff standard.
If you're ok with hashing out the details, you should start doing so on the shows. You essentially said to Lucas you didn't want to hash out the details because people can go elsewhere to do that. Well, we really can't, all we get elsewhere is Lucas' story - no one questioning her. If her story is true, questioning her certainly is a hard thing to do - but it is a necessary hardship if more people are to be convinced of the reality of "this stuff."

Re:Lucas - see all of Eric's posts in this thread. Address why the dates and details don't line up all over the place. Why does Lucas have nothing other than her own words to validate her story? It is flimsy, period. Christine Blasey Ford and Julie Swetnick had less holes in their stories than Lucas. I can't imagine you believed them?

Re:Dizdar - He talks about all of these victims and how almost every one of them has a remote viewer alter, this and that alter, etc etc. Is there documentation of this? Is it corroborated by anyone other than him? I really would have to go back into the interview to tick off the the ridiculous generalizations and straight up errors re: occultism.

There is no documentation or study of the purported phenomena, just wild extrapolation from exaggerated re-tellings of things we do know and are documented like MK-Ultra/often/etc., Esptein, Dutroux, Saville. Crystal covered that aspect of this very well early on in the thread.

We set the bar so much higher for proof of Psi, why is it set so low for SRA?

There are so many more authoritative sources on this you could go to. Do you still trust Gordon? Wonder if he'd talk to you about it, I'm sure he knows the recorded history around using children as mediums and scryers. How about the several psychologists or academics I suggested who have written on ritual abuse? Not sensational enough?

Let me reiterate, in no way am I trying to say ritual abuse does not occur. It does. It just doesn't occur the way Dizdar or Lucas are claiming.
 
Maybe Lonevoice doesn't realise that podcasts threads remain open to new comments indefinitely?

David
Thanks, David, I did know this and I wrote a new post to clarify my meaning. But it does not seem that Alex saw it. It also seems he missed this vital input:

This is the most comprehensive and detailed book I have seen on pedophila: A FREE DOWNLOAD, or at Kindle, your preference.

Pedophilia & Empire – Satan, Sodomy, & the Deep State

https://phibetaiota.net/2017/07/joachim-hagopian-pedophilia-empire/ SCROLL DOWN FOR THE FULL TABLE OF CONTENTS.

My problem with it is that author endorses the David Icke view that the global overlords are Reptilians, as does the book's sponsor Robert Steele. But the book's research seems useful despite that and despite the author's other personal political views (the parts I have read), and is unbelievably detailed.

P.S. There is a chapter on Belgium's pedophilia in the planning stage / or currently being written.
 
If you're ok with hashing out the details, you should start doing so on the shows. You essentially said to Lucas you didn't want to hash out the details because people can go elsewhere to do that. Well, we really can't, all we get elsewhere is Lucas' story - no one questioning her. If her story is true, questioning her certainly is a hard thing to do - but it is a necessary hardship if more people are to be convinced of the reality of "this stuff."

Re:Lucas - see all of Eric's posts in this thread. Address why the dates and details don't line up all over the place. Why does Lucas have nothing other than her own words to validate her story? It is flimsy, period. Christine Blasey Ford and Julie Swetnick had less holes in their stories than Lucas. I can't imagine you believed them?

Re:Dizdar - He talks about all of these victims and how almost every one of them has a remote viewer alter, this and that alter, etc etc. Is there documentation of this? Is it corroborated by anyone other than him? I really would have to go back into the interview to tick off the the ridiculous generalizations and straight up errors re: occultism.

There is no documentation or study of the purported phenomena, just wild extrapolation from exaggerated re-tellings of things we do know and are documented like MK-Ultra/often/etc., Esptein, Dutroux, Saville. Crystal covered that aspect of this very well early on in the thread.

We set the bar so much higher for proof of Psi, why is it set so low for SRA?

There are so many more authoritative sources on this you could go to. Do you still trust Gordon? Wonder if he'd talk to you about it, I'm sure he knows the recorded history around using children as mediums and scryers. How about the several psychologists or academics I suggested who have written on ritual abuse? Not sensational enough?

Let me reiterate, in no way am I trying to say ritual abuse does not occur. It does. It just doesn't occur the way Dizdar or Lucas are claiming.
First, thanks for the support. I would be very discouraged with this forum if everyone here just accepted everything that every guest has to say.

Lucas has a blog of sorts that is in something of a diary format. I recommend people interested in her story go read it. IMO, it is very fantasy prone and disturbing (it's where I got the story of her torrid sexual affair with her biological father, beginning after only the second time she ever met him). A lot of reads like she is a twisted pervert writing for some pedo porn publication. That is because of how she handles the material. It's lurid, not coldly factual. It reminds me womens' romance novels style prose. Bizarre.

While you have a perspective as a child prostitute, I have a perspective from actually knowing some "elites" (includes some people fairly high up in the CIA and other intelligence services). These are/were fairly stodgy patriot types. Very conservative. Not into satanism and pedophilia - in fact would probably simply kill such a person if they encountered one. Between our real life experience, we're not seeing it. Like I say, beyond the normal pimps and prostitutes and usual mix of Johns, there are no major rings run by satanist world leaders. Those are camp fire stories. And no, Epstein doesn't count. He was just a rich guy in jet set circles who liked younger women and girls; girls who volunteered for the job (and no Satanism involved). The girls themselves state that many people at Epstein's parties were not having sex with them (Trump being one such). Epstein may have been killed by someone who did have sex and had something to lose, but also may have been killed by another prisoner who hates pedos, happens all of the time in prison. Guards don't give a damn.

Something else, re; Epstein - Mohammed married an 11 year old. In various parts of the world girls are married off at 11 or 12. They're having babies at 13 or 14. Even once upon a time in the US teenagers were regularly married at 14 - 16 and then having babies. I don't approve of that, but part of it is that I'm a man of my current culture. But Epstein having voluntary teenage girls having sex isn't at all the same thing as the story that Lucas tells. Trying to say it is just shows a desperation to keep the conspiracy narrative alive. It obvious and not at all convincing.

For those who keep shrieking "MK Ultra!" as "proof" of something or another - MK ULTRA was a small compartment and it got into trouble with oversight. As I have tried to explain many times - mostly with futility because conspiracy theorists don't want their bubble burst - compartments are sealed and others don't know is going on inside it. It'snot like the entire CIA was engaged in these activities. In fact, most would have been - and were when it was found out - shocked at such unethical and immoral behavior. Once again we have black/white all/nothing thinking on the part of the conspiracy theorists. if anyone went bad in a large organization, then the whole organization is bad (though I note that this style of thinking doesn't seem to be applied to yoga wherein we have lots of rapists).
 
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