Anneke Lucas, Recovering From Unimaginable Evil |441|
- Thread starter Alex
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If you're ok with hashing out the details, you should start doing so on the shows. You essentially said to Lucas you didn't want to hash out the details because people can go elsewhere to do that. Well, we really can't, all we get elsewhere is Lucas' story - no one questioning her. If her story is true, questioning her certainly is a hard thing to do - but it is a necessary hardship if more people are to be convinced of the reality of "this stuff."
Re:Lucas - see all of Eric's posts in this thread. Address why the dates and details don't line up all over the place. Why does Lucas have nothing other than her own words to validate her story? It is flimsy, period. Christine Blasey Ford and Julie Swetnick had less holes in their stories than Lucas. I can't imagine you believed them?
Re
izdar - He talks about all of these victims and how almost every one of them has a remote viewer alter, this and that alter, etc etc. Is there documentation of this? Is it corroborated by anyone other than him? I really would have to go back into the interview to tick off the the ridiculous generalizations and straight up errors re: occultism.
There is no documentation or study of the purported phenomena, just wild extrapolation from exaggerated re-tellings of things we do know and are documented like MK-Ultra/often/etc., Esptein, Dutroux, Saville. Crystal covered that aspect of this very well early on in the thread.
We set the bar so much higher for proof of Psi, why is it set so low for SRA?
There are so many more authoritative sources on this you could go to. Do you still trust Gordon? Wonder if he'd talk to you about it, I'm sure he knows the recorded history around using children as mediums and scryers. How about the several psychologists or academics I suggested who have written on ritual abuse? Not sensational enough?
Let me reiterate, in no way am I trying to say ritual abuse does not occur. It does. It just doesn't occur the way Dizdar or Lucas are claiming.
Re:Lucas - see all of Eric's posts in this thread. Address why the dates and details don't line up all over the place. Why does Lucas have nothing other than her own words to validate her story? It is flimsy, period. Christine Blasey Ford and Julie Swetnick had less holes in their stories than Lucas. I can't imagine you believed them?
Re
izdar - He talks about all of these victims and how almost every one of them has a remote viewer alter, this and that alter, etc etc. Is there documentation of this? Is it corroborated by anyone other than him? I really would have to go back into the interview to tick off the the ridiculous generalizations and straight up errors re: occultism.There is no documentation or study of the purported phenomena, just wild extrapolation from exaggerated re-tellings of things we do know and are documented like MK-Ultra/often/etc., Esptein, Dutroux, Saville. Crystal covered that aspect of this very well early on in the thread.
We set the bar so much higher for proof of Psi, why is it set so low for SRA?
There are so many more authoritative sources on this you could go to. Do you still trust Gordon? Wonder if he'd talk to you about it, I'm sure he knows the recorded history around using children as mediums and scryers. How about the several psychologists or academics I suggested who have written on ritual abuse? Not sensational enough?
Let me reiterate, in no way am I trying to say ritual abuse does not occur. It does. It just doesn't occur the way Dizdar or Lucas are claiming.
Lucas has a blog of sorts that is in something of a diary format. I recommend people interested in her story go read it. IMO, it is very fantasy prone and disturbing (it's where I got the story of her torrid sexual affair with her biological father, beginning after only the second time she ever met him). A lot of reads like she is a twisted pervert writing for some pedo porn publication. That is because of how she handles the material. It's lurid, not coldly factual. It reminds me womens' romance novels style prose. Bizarre.
While you have a perspective as a child prostitute, I have a perspective from actually knowing some "elites" (includes some people fairly high up in the CIA and other intelligence services). These are/were fairly stodgy patriot types. Very conservative. Not into satanism and pedophilia - in fact would probably simply kill such a person if they encountered one. Between our real life experience, we're not seeing it. Like I say, beyond the normal pimps and prostitutes and usual mix of Johns, there are no major rings run by satanist world leaders. Those are camp fire stories. And no, Epstein doesn't count. He was just a rich guy in jet set circles who liked younger women and girls; girls who volunteered for the job (and no Satanism involved). The girls themselves state that many people at Epstein's parties were not having sex with them (Trump being one such). Epstein may have been killed by someone who did have sex and had something to lose, but also may have been killed by another prisoner who hates pedos, happens all of the time in prison. Guards don't give a damn.
Something else, re; Epstein - Mohammed married an 11 year old. In various parts of the world girls are married off at 11 or 12. They're having babies at 13 or 14. Even once upon a time in the US teenagers were regularly married at 14 - 16 and then having babies. I don't approve of that, but part of it is that I'm a man of my current culture. But Epstein having voluntary teenage girls having sex isn't at all the same thing as the story that Lucas tells. Trying to say it is just shows a desperation to keep the conspiracy narrative alive. It obvious and not at all convincing.
For those who keep shrieking "MK Ultra!" as "proof" of something or another - MK ULTRA was a small compartment and it got into trouble with oversight. As I have tried to explain many times - mostly with futility because conspiracy theorists don't want their bubble burst - compartments are sealed and others don't know is going on inside it. It'snot like the entire CIA was engaged in these activities. In fact, most would have been - and were when it was found out - shocked at such unethical and immoral behavior. Once again we have black/white all/nothing thinking on the part of the conspiracy theorists. if anyone went bad in a large organization, then the whole organization is bad (though I note that this style of thinking doesn't seem to be applied to yoga wherein we have lots of rapists).
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Satanism in the west gets lumped in all too often with general occultism. They are not at all synomous, in fact many practitioners or scholars of the occult are very apprehensive with Christian or Islamic religious doctrines. At most they are mythologies that can be used as tools. Similar to the life of pi movie at the end. When pi finished telling his story which seemed impossible to survive, it was nothing short of a fantasy novel. At the end the interviewer asked if the story was real or not. Pi replied Does it matter? "
I blame this on Aliester Crowley and his occult trolling, Crowley didn't actual worship the devil it was mostly trolling to throw people off. In fact Crowley believed even things or people we perceive as evil was an illusion, buried deep beneath these illusions was a seed of the divine. Most people who practice Satanism got their information and ideas from Hollywood movies
I blame this on Aliester Crowley and his occult trolling, Crowley didn't actual worship the devil it was mostly trolling to throw people off. In fact Crowley believed even things or people we perceive as evil was an illusion, buried deep beneath these illusions was a seed of the divine. Most people who practice Satanism got their information and ideas from Hollywood movies
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Also, with regards to some other conspiracy theories that many here support and The Abyss, I have to say that from my perspective, the conspiracy theory looks like the security blanket from the abyss.
Oswald shot and killed Kennedy all by his own crazy damn self. You have a guy that qualified with the middle range of rifle proficiency in the Marine Corps. I can assure you that anyone with that qualification could easily hit a slow moving head sized target at less than 100 yards with a scoped rifle. The President was unprotected back in those days (no armored roof on the limo). Oswald was a weird guy with obvious psychological issues and a dislike of America and the President - and a narcissism that demanded recognition even if it meant infamy . That's all it takes.
IMO, it is unsettling to some people that a lone whacko could light up the President. Far more comfortable to believe that it takes a conspiracy of high level people and a small army of henchman to do the job. Ruby shot Oswald for the same reason that after 911 some people took out their anger on Americans that looked to them like Muslims. People can be surprisingly patriotic. Ruby wanted to act like the mafia tough guys he admired and he found a perfect excuse to "make his bones". very simple scenario.
911 - far less of a stare into the abyss to imagine a supremely complex conspiracy necessary to destroy the towers and damage the pentagon and crash a fourth airplane that was targeting the capitol. It is too discomforting for some to accept that less than two dozen dedicated jihadis with box cutters could pull it off - because if they could, then anyone could do anything terrible, any time, any place.
And sorry, but "explain building 7" doesn't do it for me. Just because you don't understand the physics involved with that exact building design under those exact circumstances doesn't mean that it couldn't happen exactly as it appeared to (uncontrolled fires melting support couplings causing the floors to pancake somewhat (but not exactly!) straight down. IMO, it is the height of arrogance to proclaim that because you don't get it, it must be something else. And you can always find 1% of any kind of professionals (i.e. architects, structural engineers) to confirm any theory. Some people like notoriety. Some like to be contrarians just for the sake of it.
As someone said upthread, the real abyss is that no one is in control. Control is an illusion that holds firm enough most of the time because we all play along with it. As soon as someone decides that the illusion isn't for them, chaos breaks out.
Child sex rings and abuse and pedophilia are always lurking around being perpetrated by sickos that don't buy into the illusion that someone is in control. In fact, all psychopathic activity follows that pattern. The psychopath feels much glee and power knowing that control over an individual or society is an illusion. He feels superior by violating the illusion. He gets off on it. It is the violating that is the true reason he acts, material gains are secondary. There is no need for world power brokers to run these things. That is a myth. That is the security blanket, the protection from the abyss. The true abyss is that the sense of control is an illusion and anyone not buying into the illusion can destroy order and control in a New York minute and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it if the violator is even a little shrewd. And you won't recognize the violator until it's too late. It won't be the "elite" that the myth says it is. It's the one you never figure.
Oswald shot and killed Kennedy all by his own crazy damn self. You have a guy that qualified with the middle range of rifle proficiency in the Marine Corps. I can assure you that anyone with that qualification could easily hit a slow moving head sized target at less than 100 yards with a scoped rifle. The President was unprotected back in those days (no armored roof on the limo). Oswald was a weird guy with obvious psychological issues and a dislike of America and the President - and a narcissism that demanded recognition even if it meant infamy . That's all it takes.
IMO, it is unsettling to some people that a lone whacko could light up the President. Far more comfortable to believe that it takes a conspiracy of high level people and a small army of henchman to do the job. Ruby shot Oswald for the same reason that after 911 some people took out their anger on Americans that looked to them like Muslims. People can be surprisingly patriotic. Ruby wanted to act like the mafia tough guys he admired and he found a perfect excuse to "make his bones". very simple scenario.
911 - far less of a stare into the abyss to imagine a supremely complex conspiracy necessary to destroy the towers and damage the pentagon and crash a fourth airplane that was targeting the capitol. It is too discomforting for some to accept that less than two dozen dedicated jihadis with box cutters could pull it off - because if they could, then anyone could do anything terrible, any time, any place.
And sorry, but "explain building 7" doesn't do it for me. Just because you don't understand the physics involved with that exact building design under those exact circumstances doesn't mean that it couldn't happen exactly as it appeared to (uncontrolled fires melting support couplings causing the floors to pancake somewhat (but not exactly!) straight down. IMO, it is the height of arrogance to proclaim that because you don't get it, it must be something else. And you can always find 1% of any kind of professionals (i.e. architects, structural engineers) to confirm any theory. Some people like notoriety. Some like to be contrarians just for the sake of it.
As someone said upthread, the real abyss is that no one is in control. Control is an illusion that holds firm enough most of the time because we all play along with it. As soon as someone decides that the illusion isn't for them, chaos breaks out.
Child sex rings and abuse and pedophilia are always lurking around being perpetrated by sickos that don't buy into the illusion that someone is in control. In fact, all psychopathic activity follows that pattern. The psychopath feels much glee and power knowing that control over an individual or society is an illusion. He feels superior by violating the illusion. He gets off on it. It is the violating that is the true reason he acts, material gains are secondary. There is no need for world power brokers to run these things. That is a myth. That is the security blanket, the protection from the abyss. The true abyss is that the sense of control is an illusion and anyone not buying into the illusion can destroy order and control in a New York minute and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it if the violator is even a little shrewd. And you won't recognize the violator until it's too late. It won't be the "elite" that the myth says it is. It's the one you never figure.
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I think you are wrong if talking about actual evil as opposed to myths.
There is a howling, raging darkness out there that hates - I mean hates - happiness and innocence and faith and hope and freedom. When it sees those things, it wants to crush them out. It only understands endless pain and confusion without possibly of redemption and wants all to join it in its misery. It is envious of what it cannot have. It is damned and knows it. Its blasphemy is boundless. It is not at all like Pan.
There is a howling, raging darkness out there that hates - I mean hates - happiness and innocence and faith and hope and freedom. When it sees those things, it wants to crush them out. It only understands endless pain and confusion without possibly of redemption and wants all to join it in its misery. It is envious of what it cannot have. It is damned and knows it. Its blasphemy is boundless. It is not at all like Pan.
Here's the Crowley quote
Crowley observed the "Divine Frenzy", the Vigorous Expression of Self, and the Universal need of "I Will Be". He commented in the Equinox: “In Daath is said to be the Head of the Great Serpent Nechesh or Leviathan, called evil to conceal its Holiness." Interestingly, Crowley had the seven headed beast of the Apocalypse, of which he personally identified with, as his representation of Lust and/or Divine Vigor. Upon the Beasts back, rides the Scarlet Woman, as a representative of the Vestal Virgins. This seemingly counter-intuitive representation goes along with the argument that the Divine Creative, only creates good and/or what it wants. Therefore, what looks to be evil, is really beneficial. In Qabalah this is known as the comment, "If it exists, it is supposed to". And to put a more positive spin on this Scarlet Woman/Divine Whore, it should at first be understood that the Tarot images are metaphors. For instance, the Divine Whore is of the red solar spectrum, and/or Red Suns, which by the way are the majority of Stars in our universe. Also life as we know it, comes in the atomic forms of the Carbon Atom, an Atom that can only be made by Red Suns. The carbon atom is the most flexible of all atoms, and will mate with most any other atom and therefore, far from being monogamous . Hence, it is the Divine Whore/Scarlet womb/wo-man and/or the atomic mother of Organic Matter, from which living forms are made. Hence, Carbon atoms are the lovers of vigor. The Lust Card-Key 11, is the Path of Teth, the 19th Path on the Qabalistic Tree of Life. The Hebrew letter, Teth, means snake, which is often referred to as Serpent Force and/or The Sex Force. The zodiacal sign assigned to this card is Sun Powered sign of Leo; Leo is symbolized as a Lion, and Teth, is a Snake, the combination of these two, is the Lion-Serpent, the idea of which fostered the Dragon and later Chimera images of the ancients. The interchangeability of the Lion and the Serpent symbols represents an important key in understanding the great embedded profundities of this card. The Serpent/Sex Force is the force that impregnates the Orphic Egg and/or Universal Ovum. It is vigorous, fecund and fertile spiral energy. Spiral and Spirit come from the same Greek root word-Spiro, which means breath and/or to breath. It is therefore, the inhale and exhale force of life and is link with the Pranayama breath exercises of yoga. Pranayama, is Sanskrit for "inhale/exhale" and/or "life/death".
Crowley observed the "Divine Frenzy", the Vigorous Expression of Self, and the Universal need of "I Will Be". He commented in the Equinox: “In Daath is said to be the Head of the Great Serpent Nechesh or Leviathan, called evil to conceal its Holiness." Interestingly, Crowley had the seven headed beast of the Apocalypse, of which he personally identified with, as his representation of Lust and/or Divine Vigor. Upon the Beasts back, rides the Scarlet Woman, as a representative of the Vestal Virgins. This seemingly counter-intuitive representation goes along with the argument that the Divine Creative, only creates good and/or what it wants. Therefore, what looks to be evil, is really beneficial. In Qabalah this is known as the comment, "If it exists, it is supposed to". And to put a more positive spin on this Scarlet Woman/Divine Whore, it should at first be understood that the Tarot images are metaphors. For instance, the Divine Whore is of the red solar spectrum, and/or Red Suns, which by the way are the majority of Stars in our universe. Also life as we know it, comes in the atomic forms of the Carbon Atom, an Atom that can only be made by Red Suns. The carbon atom is the most flexible of all atoms, and will mate with most any other atom and therefore, far from being monogamous . Hence, it is the Divine Whore/Scarlet womb/wo-man and/or the atomic mother of Organic Matter, from which living forms are made. Hence, Carbon atoms are the lovers of vigor. The Lust Card-Key 11, is the Path of Teth, the 19th Path on the Qabalistic Tree of Life. The Hebrew letter, Teth, means snake, which is often referred to as Serpent Force and/or The Sex Force. The zodiacal sign assigned to this card is Sun Powered sign of Leo; Leo is symbolized as a Lion, and Teth, is a Snake, the combination of these two, is the Lion-Serpent, the idea of which fostered the Dragon and later Chimera images of the ancients. The interchangeability of the Lion and the Serpent symbols represents an important key in understanding the great embedded profundities of this card. The Serpent/Sex Force is the force that impregnates the Orphic Egg and/or Universal Ovum. It is vigorous, fecund and fertile spiral energy. Spiral and Spirit come from the same Greek root word-Spiro, which means breath and/or to breath. It is therefore, the inhale and exhale force of life and is link with the Pranayama breath exercises of yoga. Pranayama, is Sanskrit for "inhale/exhale" and/or "life/death".
I am very familiar with Jung. I don't disagree with the shadow and what he says about it, but that is not the evil I'm talking about.
There is a malevolence to real evil that Jung doesn't address. The shadow isn't damned. It doesn't derive it's only source of power and sense of being from hurting others. It isn't envious of happiness and hope such that it wants to take it away, to crush it out, forever.
There is a malevolence to real evil that Jung doesn't address. The shadow isn't damned. It doesn't derive it's only source of power and sense of being from hurting others. It isn't envious of happiness and hope such that it wants to take it away, to crush it out, forever.
Indifferent.
The lion enjoys killing the wildebeest because it is going to get a good meal.
Evil enjoys destroying an innocent or good life because it hates, is envious and seeks to glorify its self perceived superiority by exerting power over others and the societal order and then harming them, deliberately in the process. It is anything but natural. It is a twisting of what is natural and nature's order.
Evil is not feeding its stomach or bank account. It is feeding its need to "win" against hope and freedom and peace of mind and the sovereignty of others.
people think that the greedy guy who never is satisfied even though he has $millions and who seeks to make more money by hook or by crook is evil. IMO, that person is doing wrong, but is more of a case of being misguided and having lost a sense of his true self (the new age explanation fits him). I wouldn't call him evil either. He's just a human doing some bad things and, yes, perhaps hurting people in the process - but the peple who are hurt are just collateral damage. The hurting isn't the point of what he's doing. For evil people hurting is the point; the primary objective.
Take the Dutroux couple who have been discussed in this thread. They kept girls as prisoners in horrid conditions, sexually abused them and otherwise tortured them - and then killed them. That is an expression of true evil. Dutroux lived in a relatively free society. Prostitution is legal there. If he wanted sex, he could have gotten it anywhere. He could have even found a ring that would have given him access to underage girls for sex. But you see, the sex was secondary; one method within a spectrum of awful means that he employed, to inflict damage to the souls of his victims.
The lion enjoys killing the wildebeest because it is going to get a good meal.
Evil enjoys destroying an innocent or good life because it hates, is envious and seeks to glorify its self perceived superiority by exerting power over others and the societal order and then harming them, deliberately in the process. It is anything but natural. It is a twisting of what is natural and nature's order.
Evil is not feeding its stomach or bank account. It is feeding its need to "win" against hope and freedom and peace of mind and the sovereignty of others.
people think that the greedy guy who never is satisfied even though he has $millions and who seeks to make more money by hook or by crook is evil. IMO, that person is doing wrong, but is more of a case of being misguided and having lost a sense of his true self (the new age explanation fits him). I wouldn't call him evil either. He's just a human doing some bad things and, yes, perhaps hurting people in the process - but the peple who are hurt are just collateral damage. The hurting isn't the point of what he's doing. For evil people hurting is the point; the primary objective.
Take the Dutroux couple who have been discussed in this thread. They kept girls as prisoners in horrid conditions, sexually abused them and otherwise tortured them - and then killed them. That is an expression of true evil. Dutroux lived in a relatively free society. Prostitution is legal there. If he wanted sex, he could have gotten it anywhere. He could have even found a ring that would have given him access to underage girls for sex. But you see, the sex was secondary; one method within a spectrum of awful means that he employed, to inflict damage to the souls of his victims.
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