When I first started astral projecting by accident, before I even knew I was astral projecting or what it was, I referred to them as "lucid daydreams" because of how different they were from normal day dreams. In some early cases I got pulled in so deep that I actually thought I was sleeping for real at home in bed only to then come out of it sitting completely upright at a desk fully awake and aware. Oh my god thank you! Someone other than me finally made this point! Granted maybe this point has ben made hundreds of times before I even joined Skeptiko but you'er the first I've seen. I've been harping on about this since I joined. The whole good vs evil thing is childishly naive and logically impossible anyways. In my experience people's belief in some form of structured, objective morality, usually religion, gets taken advantage of by some spirits fo their own ends. Manipulating humans for reasons ranging from "just for fun" to "taking out the competition" to "I just like helping people" to "world domination" and beyond. It's all just self interest, nothing more, nothing less. Believing anything is wholly good or bad is ridiculous, everyone has their own motives, and when there's this much of a power gap between you and them it would be outright stupid to just take their word on anything. And those who do invariably seem to end up as little more than disposable tools, whether it's for gods or governments it doesn't really matter. It's all the same thing at the end of the day. I was originally going to post on this thread and go "So, why couldn't a spirit give someone a message of mass murder and call it good?" as a counter to the benevolent afterlife narrative. But now I don't even need to because you linked to actual examples. Doesn't matter how much love they radiat or how bright they shine, feelings don't matter. Question the motives behind the message to figure out what, if anything, is really happening.