Beverly Gilmour, 100s of NDE and a New Insight About Consciousness |350|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, May 23, 2017.

  1. hypermagda

    hypermagda Member

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    Hehe! You can always choose to see this as some kind of lesson I suppose ;-)
    Take care Steve x
     
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  2. hypermagda

    hypermagda Member

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    Good point (as many others you made). The guy's name is Procrustes btw :).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procrustes
     
  3. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    I like your humor :) and admire your use of it in a language that isn't your primary!

    I was relaxing watching a perfect sunset the other day on my back porch and was slightly irritated by a mosquito and thought... "why is there always something ruining perfection? Am I subconsciously creating this mosquito in an act of self-sabotage the way my dreams at night always seem to slip away unfulfilled? Would I prefer there not be a mosquito? If I start erasing unpleasant things, where would I stop?"

    I don't know about the love of the "source"... I just think of it as a game and a drama. It seems to me that the main problem in the universe is not evil, but boredom. Evil is a secondary problem that emerges as a solution to the first problem. It is only pain that makes something "serious".

    I think that what emerges out of a set of conscious beings is a hierarchy which can be "good or evil" and that there must be a continual effort to revitalize it so that it does not become corrupt and evil. This is the case on earth, and so I assume in the great beyond. I extrapolate this out to assume that there is something of an archetypal benevolent father figure at the head of this metaphysical hierarchy who is love and light, and there is also the demiurge with his oppressive hierarchy and the hierarchies are locked in a battle. There's also probably a great deal of creatures out there who don't give a damn about this epic battle and carry on independently and sometimes do fine and sometimes get splattered. Neither one (benevolent father figure nor demiurge) is THE "source" but all (including us) together make up the Source, and when we get bored like teens often do, this is the kind of stupid shit we dream up to do together. :)

    The main unresolved question for me is: would it be better to develop individually or join the metaphysical hierarchy by surrendering something of myself to it in exchange for being a part of the power structure? Christianity (my roots) paradoxically seems to very individualistic in some ways yet also very collectivist in some ways. I guess the optimal conclusion is likely a balance of both. Anyway it has made me reconsider the value in praying to "a benevolent higher power" (which I haven't done much of in a long time) since in all likelihood one does exist and if it exists, it seems most likely to be beneficial to be attached to it as long as you can jump out and flip the bird to it if the head of it turns out to be the Demiurge.
     
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  4. Steve

    Steve Member

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    Uh oh.
     
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  5. hypermagda

    hypermagda Member

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    Thank you for your kind words Hurmanetar. The appreciation is definitely mutual! You're one of my favourite people around here in fact, although I will humbly admit that a lot of your posts go over my head, hehe!
    Yes, I am certainly more open to seeing existence in this flawed material world as some kind of stupid, cruel game concocted by (bored?) entities who are very different from us, rather than as something that is designed to make sense *for us*, given that we all have to look so much around to find a meaning in our existence (often failing) that it is more likely that we are just forcing ourselves to endorse the "meaning" this reality might (just might, we don't know) have for other, more powerful entities who are doing their thing, whatever it is....As I wrote in an old post: this does not seem to be "about us" individually. We don't matter (that much).
    I am actually very interested in what you wrote about connecting to a "benevolent higher power", because empirically speaking it would indeed seem to work, although imo whatever power/entity/being we seem to be connecting with would not be the (supposedly) ultimate one but just one of the (many?) strange inhabitants of what I increasingly suspect is a shamanistic universe....
     
  6. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    Don't worry... according to Malf my posts are merely nice sounding pseudoprofundities... and by my own admission: there's nothing there to grasp... :)

    I don't know about the "very different than us" description... I think they are exactly like us or at least sub-components present within us.. and we are them. I think the archetypes are not merely characters distilled and abstracted from our experiences, but that our experiences are instantiations of archetypal patterns that repeat at various levels of reality: "As above, so below". I don't accept any room for a victim mentality. I think that for anything to exist it must exist by agreement - but that there is always some ambiguity present in any agreement which is what creates the novelty and variation of existence (and the opportunity for deception). Pure perfect lossless reflection contains no novelty, but infinite reflection with a flaw in each reflection creates novelty (not unlike a game of telephone). Now you could make the argument that if you made an agreement to go through this and forgot that you made it when you woke up in the hospital on your birthday, was it really you who made the agreement to be here? Is an agreement that you can't remember making still an agreement? Is an agreement that was in some way ambiguous and therefore possibly deceptive still valid? And that's fair... but I also have to wonder about our dreams: do we identify with the part of our minds that composes the (often frustrating) dream world? If we take responsibility for the unpleasantness of the dream world as a creation of our subconscious, maybe the unpleasantness of the "real" world is also a manifestation of our subconscious - at least I think we have a valid option to choose to identify with it.

    Maybe it is easier for a masculine personality to accept the value of the "game" description than a feminine type because it is more in the masculine nature to be drawn to competition and hierarchy and heroism and to disregard the pain involved as "sport", and it is more in the feminine type to focus on compassion and equality,,, but part of the "game" is to defeat hierarchies that have become corrupt and that is function of the divine feminine - so your mom-like anger at the mess made by the "bored teenage-boy gods" is exactly the thing needed to bring order to the chaos they've created.

    But back to identity... There's no logical reason not to identify with all of reality because identity is a mentally created boundary that we draw around something for a particular purpose. If your purpose is to avoid accepting a victim mindset and to change the world for the better, why not choose to identify with it all (suicide bombers and all)? This just now occurred to me: maybe that's the meaning of "pick up your cross and follow me": to save the world you have to take on the sins of the whole world by identifying with the world - Christ on the Cross is one archetypal symbol of that. And then if you identify with the world, you cannot have a victim mentality and you recognize that the best way to fix it all is to fix yourself and be at the right place at the right time for opportunity to meet preparedness, and that is when you momentarily become an instantiation of the archetypal hero.

    I sometimes stop and think how strange it is that out of all the endless potential possibilities for an identity and a circumstance, I happen to be this person with this particular body in these particular circumstances. How weird is that? And since I'm me here now, and I generally like who I am, I must have wanted to be "me" on some subconscious level and if I can bring my conscious awareness to understand and accept whatever it was that led me to be me, then that seems like the resolution to any problems I might have created for myself.

    When I'm awoken by a stressful dream, there's a part of me that thinks the problem is real and that part of me is truly suffering from what it considers to be a real serious problem, and then there's a part of me that knows that problem is my own mental creation and that I have the power to make it stop, so when I wake up, I have to talk to myself getting the two parts of me to understand one another and agree on what is really happening, and the issue is resolved and then I sleep peacefully. Maybe that's a good analogy?

    As compared to what? Where and how do you calibrate the "0" on your scale of "mattering"? It seems to me that what matters or is meaningful is a function of meaningful connections (both internal and external) which are increased by emotionally impactful actions and increasing knowledge. The more emotionally impactful the action the closer that action is to the instantiation of an archetypal character.

    Furthermore, it seems that meaning is increased if those connections are maintained over longer periods of time (memories stored), and so if the memories of our individual experiences are aggregated and remembered by a larger mind (or a collected subconscious) which is being informed through them, the meaning is not lost at death. There seems to be some evidence that could lead to that conclusion (Sheldrake's morphogenetic fields and studies with animal instincts and species' meta-learning).

    It seems more and more obvious to me that reality is circular and reflexive and the hermetic principle "as above, so below" must be true. So I think patterns repeat, and one pattern that I can see at least 3 powerful iterations of is hierarchy: hierarchy in the individual mind, hierarchy in the food chain, and hierarchy in political systems. And the archetypes are different orientations to those hierarchies. So it just seems very reasonable to me that we are part of a larger mind which has the same kind of internal struggles that we do which manifest as reality on various levels. External struggles are in some ways manifestations of abstract internal conflict.

    We could think of it this way: self-hypnosis seems to work pretty well and my understanding of that is that you are composed of sub-personalities which are not necessarily all in agreement, but if you can get these sub-personalities aligned with the goals of the top personality or the ego, then you can accomplish things you didn't think were possible, AND you can be good to yourself (because many sub-personalities are selfish with goals that do not serve the whole self such as alcoholism).

    So if each of us is kind of like a sub-personality in a larger mind, and we decide to get in line with the benevolent goals of the larger mind then there is mutual benefit to us as well as to the larger mind.

    The "ultimate one" is the paradox of all paradoxes and it is the numinous and the thing which cannot be spoken and in some way it is our own consciousness, so we cannot describe it directly (only with self-contradictory metaphor) because it is the ultimate boundary condition. (More pseudo-profundity for Malf here)
     
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  7. AryaS

    AryaS Member

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    This podcast and this post made me think of two weird experiences I have had:

    The first happened to me in my twenties. I was living in the Virgin Islands and sleeping in my room and possibly/maybe a little drunk or at least I'm sure I had had a drink (I worked as a waitress/bartender at the time... that's what we all did after our shifts ended). I was awoken by this incredible brilliant white light/force that came in through my bedroom window. The energy in the light was palpable -- very strong, a force, like a strong vibration. At the time, I instantly recognized the light as "Jesus" -- although it wasn't a human form at all, it was only a force/light. The light telepathically communicated to me that it wanted to "tell me something" and "reveal itself to me" but I immediately felt small and frightened and I communicated back to the light that I was not prepared to face it/Him and that if I faced Him/It I would immediately die. I'm not sure why I knew or felt that, but I felt instinctively that I was not ready for this meeting -- maybe that I wasn't worthy? Not sure. Anyway, the light respectfully acknowledged and understood my fear and slowly withdrew from my room through the window again. Unfortunately, It/Him/Whatever it was has never returned, and I have often wondered if I actually squandered my one chance of seeing "God" up close and personal! Come back! Come back! I'm ready now! :) Of course, now I think that the only reason I saw "Jesus" in the light was because of my prior upbringing (raised a marginal Easter and Christmas Catholic) -- and for all I know it could have been aliens, the military, an angel, an ultradimensional -- or someone just messing with me. I also wonder if maybe I was just hallucinating, drunk/stoned, or lucid dreaming.

    The second weird experience happened much more recently when I tried magic mushrooms. I experienced this weird mechanistic world, in all grays and blacks, with grinding machinery -- it was almost like I was in a large, robotic brain, seeing the gears and wheels cranking and sputtering. I felt presences there and demanded: Who created this World? What are you? The response I got back was: "We are Bored Immortals." Not sure what to make of all this. Are entheogens truly a gateway to other dimensions/worlds -- or simply brain tricks?
     
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  8. hypermagda

    hypermagda Member

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    Thank you very much for sharing! I find your experiences very interesting, maybe because they kind of confirm my working theory about what is going on :). There seem to be powerful beings behind this "theatre" of physical reality, where we are merely puppets with pretty limited leeway. I guess at best we can choose our master, like puppies hoping to be liked, taken home and "adopted"/protected by good "powerful beings"....

    Of course some believe there's only ONE being behind it all (see Yogananda for instance: http://www.theself.com/lifeisadream_yogananda.cfm).

    "To the audience it was a tragic experience. To the operator in the projection booth, it was only a movie! And so it is with God. He has created (imagined) movies of light and shadows, the hero and the villain, good and evil, and we are the audience and the actors."

    "The director of the movie sees the murders and the suffering and the comedy and the drama as means to create interest for the audience. He stands apart from the play and directs and observes it. God wants us to behave with detachment realizing we are only actors or observers in his cosmic movie"

    I hope this is not the case because it would mean that s/he/it is a dangerous psychopath. But it certainly is a possibility.

    And of course some people think it's OK that physical reality is the way it is (it's a question of personal taste, at the end of the day....some people like watching horror movies, some don't). This is how I feel about it:

    "Not a sparrow falls to the ground without your father knowing it-Matthew 10:29
    But it falls, just the same. What good is seeing it fall?"-The Mysterious Stranger by Mark Twain
     
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  9. AryaS

    AryaS Member

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    I currently tend to share your world view, Magda -- seems to me there's definitely a psychopath at the helm of this particular planet. Even the natural world, with all its beauty, requires creatures to eat other creatures -- with all the attendant pain and fear that goes along with that process. The question for me is whether there's anyone/anything else? The Gnostic worldview appeals to me in that it suggests that this particular world is controlled by a psychopathic/confused/arrogant Demi-urge, which seems just about right to me, but if I'm not mistaken, that view still suggests that there's some higher "Good" God somewhere else. So how come this "higher" good god/force is letting all this evil crap happen down here? Either He/She/It doesn't have the power to intervene -- or doesn't care to?

    I'd still like to believe in some kind of dualistic or polytheistic creator Being/Beings -- cause we are totally and hopelessly #$% if it's just ONE bipolar being running this mad show.
     
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  10. hypermagda

    hypermagda Member

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    I agree with this 100%. In particular, it's very refreshing to see that you acknowledge the horrors inherent in the very functioning of nature/the material world: most people seem to think that only human nature can be cruel while the natural world('God') is sweet and good, while this is very obviously not true.

    Of course, the Gnostic God-above-God doesn't solve the problem of evil/suffering (theodicy). I think that at the end of the day the most logical explanation is that the very nature of all that is (both in the physical and in the spiritual world) is dualistic (kind of yin and yang, neither able to prevail). I (and other people) have posted a lot about this, you can find my musings in my old posts and there are several threads here in Skeptiko about this and related subjects. Basically I have come to the (working) conclusion that all that is 'emanates' from an indifferent and certainly not entirely benevolent "ground of being" (impossible to define it better, because the concept of eternity - or infinity - is really not something we can comprehend, it's just a vague concept but when you examine it closely it is ungraspable as it is not part of our experience).

    Bottom line: I do not have the answer, only working theories (believers have all the answers, I'm just a seeker :)). Like you, I like to believe in dualism because the idea that "we are all one" is not appealing at all (to say the least). It doesn't feel at all uplifting to speculate that murderers, sadists, paedophiles and myself are "all ONE".

    People come up with lots of possible explanations for why so much is intrinsically wrong. None of them however has really worked for me in the sense of holding water as a justification for the widespread suffering of sentient beings, and the condition of ignorance and mystery in which we are forced to live. But you know, I have come to the conclusion that this is ultimately a question of individual differences in sensitivity, empathy as well as willingness to trust "authority" (higher powers). Those who say that 'it's all a lesson' and 'it's all good' accept that the end justifies the means and that "God (which they believe in) knows better".

    Back to your experiences (and by the way if you wish to share more I'm interested!): I have never taken any entheogens myself but a very good friend of mine tried ayahuasca and basically came back with the same realisation as you, namely that the universe/all that is appeared to him as a perfectly synchronised and orchestrated mechanism/machinery making up the "mind of God". So you see, again it's all about our approach: my friend doesn't really mind that much that there is violence in nature etc (to him it's not a big deal) so he was simply awed and ecstatic - he loved this "revelation". He thinks it's very cool that we are part of this awesome mechanism. My reaction would have been entirely the opposite (I am trapped in a project I dislike). After all, this phantasmagoria appears to be for this powerful mind's "entertainment", like s/he/it is lucid-dreaming us to pass the time, be creative or something.
    One really hopes this is not the case, and that the "revelations" of entheogens are just brain tricks, as you say - or that at least there's a way out of this machine/matrix. I guess this is the best I can hope for.

    Nice to have you here :)!
     
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  11. AryaS

    AryaS Member

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    Thanks Magda! Yes, in some ways, it's almost better to be a materialist where there's no "God/force/ground of Being" to blame for all of this -- it's just random/the way the world works -- a dog eat dog world/survival of the fittest/absolute power corrupts absolutely type of thing. I considered myself an agnostic for a long time and wasn't really troubled that much about the nature of God/Evil for a very long time since I didn't really "believe" it/he/she existed and evil was easily understood in human terms (greed/power/control/psychopathy) anyway.

    But when I started looking deeper into what I thought were "simple" real world deep state conspiracies, it seemed to eventually and always point to stranger things going on. Maybe it's just demented people who "think" they can channel metaphysical evil. But maybe there's something there. That, coupled with some of my own limited experiences of woo/psi/entheogens have made me wonder whether a metaphysical aspect does in fact exist -- though I tend to agree that if there IS anything beyond this material world, it appears to be an amoral/indifferent force or ground of being.

    I guess that's why part of me is becoming drawn to "magick" as a possibly working concept: if there's this amoral ground of being/force that can be channeled/utilized for "evil" (as clearly some think), then perhaps it can also be utilized/channeled for good or to counteract/stop evil? In other words, maybe we can actually participate more powerfully in this very strange "game" or "movie" we seemed to be trapped in?

    I hope that all just made sense! :)
     
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  12. hypermagda

    hypermagda Member

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    Yes, this makes lots of sense to me. I basically was like you described in your first paragraph above, too.

    I totally applaud your intention (utilising this "indifferent force" in the service of good) - only the word "magick" is typically associated with Crowley (he came up with it!) so it gives me the creeps just seeing it :). The problem is, this field seems to be hogged by people who want to acquire power for their own personal ends/for their own personal development and in general are philosophically totally OK with "what is", i.e., this "Force/Ground of Being", they just want a bigger bite of the cherry if you see what I mean. Don't know, this has been my impression whenever I have had a brush with "magicians" or the like. So the whole "magic(k) scene" is not something I am drawn to to be honest with you. But if you can direct me to something better, I'll be happy to check it out!

    Somewhat off topic maybe (not really though, since you used the expression metaphysical evil in you latest post), and relevant also considering that there is a big discussion in this Forum about Pizzagate/ritual child abuse - have you watched the series True Detective? It's very "metaphysical", and practically postulates that there are two equal ways to "contact the divine": good and evil. So the ritual child abusers in the series are on a spiritual quest, too (no matter how despicable). It's VERY thought-provoking, I really recommend it, although it's quite heavy and horrific at times (I don't enjoy stuff like that AT ALL, it's actually a coincidence that I came across it - it would be too long to explain - and moreover I don't even watch TV series, I even get impatient watching most movies! I much prefer reading).

    BTW I don't have an opinion about Pizzagate frankly (so the above is not an indirect way of saying that I agree that there is something there :)) It feels too much for me to deal with - there are lots of things, like UFOs, on which I prefer to remain agnostic because I don't have the ability, the energy or the interest to dig deeper. Of course it's not the same thing because in one case there are innocent victims involved, but I trust that enough people are on the case and I wouldn't really bring any added value to their actions even if I had a clear opinion about it all.

    EDIT: I should have clarified that I'm talking about True Detective FIRST SEASON only, this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Detective_(season_1)
    Apparently the second season is a completely different story with different characters
     
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  13. AryaS

    AryaS Member

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    Hi Magda,
    I get you on the Crowley stuff -- he totally creeps me out too. I find his tarot deck very dark too. And just to clarify: I know very little about magick -- I'm just very curious about whether there's something to it since it seems to be practiced by certain dark forces - or those are the rumors/"conspiracy" theories anyway. My understanding of the Kabbalah is that there's both a Left Hand Path (i.e, the dark/power seeking magician side) and the Right Hand Path (Mercy; the good magician, perhaps performs magic(k) for more altruistic/unselfish purposes?) but we tend not to hear about the Right Hand Path. I know Kabbalists strive to balance both paths to walk the Middle Path, which I assume means trying to reconcile both the good/shadow (dark) parts of oneself. Perhaps this is necessary in this dualistic world we find ourselves in, but personally, I'd like to eradicate evil, not reconcile with it.

    Yes, I watched True Detective (both seasons) and yes this is exactly what I'm talking about -- i.e., the idea that there are people who are manifesting/manipulating the spirit worlds/the energetic amoral force for ill/dark intent -- and doing so through really horrific means like child ritual abuse/murder. Whether they are just total nutjobs operating in a materialist world devoid of a metaphysical reality -- or whether there is something to it (metaphysically) is the question I'm trying to answer for myself. What kind of "God" would demand such behavior? Is it the same ground of being that created a dog-eat-dog natural world?

    With respect to Pizzagate: I don't like going down dark paths either, but I guess because I have worked with (physically and sexually) abused children and know so many people (friends/family) who have shared with me about their childhood sexual abuse traumas, it is far more plausible to me that this stuff is happening at the higher echelons, esp when coupled with so much historical precedent. It's actually extremely puzzling to me that people can discuss the possibility of dark metaphysical forces (e.g., in the astral, in NDE's, as evidenced by various events, etc.) or a psychopathic demiurge -- and yet cannot connect these thoughts/ideas/theories to the very real physical evil being perpetuated against other human beings here. I do get that some people don't have the interest or the inclination to want to go there -- and I don't particularly want to dwell there either. But it is currently part of my rumination on what the heck is going on in this "game" or "school" or "movie" or "nightmare" or "God's entertainment."

    I guess I think if there IS a conscious force/ground of being, that some people have figured out various ways to tap into it (e.g., magick, ritual, energetic practices, entheogens, meditation, medication, trauma, etc.). So that's another one of my current conspiracy theories (understand that I'm just trying to make sense of things -- I have no firm beliefs): that the mainstream denial of the reality of consciousness beyond the brain is specifically so that that the general public/average Joe doesn't figure out how to "tap" into the same force that those in the know tap into.

    Again, maybe it's my own way of trying to figure out if there's any way out of this flawed movie, other than what we all eventually find out at the end of life.
     
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  14. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    In Magick the biblical GOD is just one of many god archetypes you can draw from.

    So if you were to do a ritual and wanted to use the associations of a jealous GOD for whatever your intent was well.....you can use that. Or you can do a ritual with jesus and use his humility and such
     
  15. hypermagda

    hypermagda Member

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    Loved loved loved your post AryaS! :)
    I have singled out and numbered a few specific points you made on which I would like to dig deeper (but I loved your post in its entirety)

    1. I have been studying the Kabbalah in depth lately. Of course it's a HUGE topic so I don't claim to "know" it or "understand it" fully, it would be truly presumptuous and delusional of me to say as much. But yes, as you say it's basically an approach which "justifies" the presence of evil in the world (and even in human life!) as a "necessary counterbalance" to good (Gevurah vs Hesed, see here for instance

    https://books.google.it/books?id=md...CvAQ6AEIPTAC#v=onepage&q=gevurah evil&f=false

    This to me doesn't make sense, especially not as far as EXTREME evil (such as paedophilia) is concerned. A physical world so designed that such extreme evils are "necessary" to make the system work is a world that could never have been emanated by an entirely benevolent source. I believe however that there are schools of thought within Kabbalah which in fact recognise this and instead of maintaining that "all is perfect" just because it is emanated by God, see this world as the product of an accident, which we are called to "repair" - although I don't see how this is possible because I do not see how even a perfect human community could change, say, the instincts of animals - "nature red in tooth and claw"; it seems once again a convenient way of placing all the blame on mankind while it is very obvious that the natural world is not under our control (and are we ourselves under our complete control? Don't think so or there would be no mental illnesses, addictions etc) - natural disasters, diseases, animals killing each other constantly etc are all examples of things which are not under human control
    (see this for example: http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/tikkun-in-lurianic-kabbalah/ -- this still does not explain why there is "the other side" (sitra ahra) - once again, we're back to what I consider an inescapable dualism if we really want to be objective about the nature of what is!

    2. Yes indeed. It may all be in their minds and still be "real" only in the sense that they act according to this belief. But after all, the existence of this material world which prominently features cruelty and violence is quite striking evidence that its deepest root cannot be an entirely loving one (if there truly were only one root, rather than a radical moral dualism in the very nature of the "ground-of-being"). So they may absolutely be connecting to something real out there in the spiritual world which would help them in their endeavours.

    3. You are right and I will admit to cowardice. There are horrors that of course I am aware of, that feel truly overwhelming to me. I mean, already "ordinary life" as it is is full of things that hurt me (the "hyper" in my nickname comes from "hypersensitive :)"). I feel I am not powerful enough psychologically to deal with such dark realities as child abuse (I truly admire you for the work you did!) and prefer to stay "on the sunny side of the street" and not actively look for more info about it (which however does not at all mean that I am not aware of the dark side as the vast majority of so-called "spiritual people", who belittle evil and suffering and say that it's all just a lesson and we are all one and it's all love and light etc - if you have read some my old posts you will have seen that I constantly rebut such facile attitudes and, believe me, even here on Skeptiko you and I are definitely in a minority!)

    4. I don't know....it would be such a huge conspiracy that it's impossible that so many would toe the line. I think that most people simply are like you and I were - until one has a direct, personal experience which shatters one's "mainstream" view of reality, by default they think the physical world is just a dead piece of machinery and there's nothing more to it than material causes and effects. I think not everybody is willing to deal with this strange stuff because they are comfortable enough in their reassuring world view; also, a lot of people are just busy with survival full stop. Or they simply choose to believe in the stories they have been told (religion) and that's enough for them, so they don't have to make any effort and simply conform to what most people in their culture are doing (the gregarious instinct is a very strong one in mankind). I mean, I can think of gazillions of reasons why most people are just not interested in anything beyond their physical daily lives and the pleasures they wish to extract from them - so no conspiracy theory is necessary imo to account for this.

    5. Let's hope death means a final way out! Reincarnation is a horrific possibility! :)
     
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  16. AryaS

    AryaS Member

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    220
    Thanks, Baccarat. I am curious as to how you think this all works since you seem to be a practitioner? Can you elaborate on your thoughts? Are the use of archetypes in your opinion simply ways to focus one's thoughts on "good" or "evil" outcomes/desires? So, if you identify with Jehovah as a jealous, vindictive, vengeful persona, and you yourself want to channel vengeful/jealous/vindictive energy for whatever physical desires you want to manifest, you'd "channel" this energetic archetype? Seems to me that the "good" guys tend to lose in this magickal equation, since presumably the "good" magician is always cognizant of not interfering with someone else's will/desires/well-being, or is generally operating only defensively, whereas a selfish left hand path magician would not care about the magick's effects on others?

    Magda -- loved your post as well and will respond more in depth later (off to work!). I want to take some time to read the Kabbalah links you offered first. They look quite interesting and I'm trying to look more deeply into the Kabbalistic theories of "God" and this bewildering manifestation myself! PS: the link was in Italian but was able to use the translate button to convert to English -- I'm hoping I can order the Zohar book in English and read it more easily on my ipad. I'm actually half Italian myself (my mother) but do not speak it. :)
     
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  17. hypermagda

    hypermagda Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Messages:
    216
    Take your time AryaS - I'm going to be offline for about two weeks starting from this afternoon so I won't be able to post in the very near future.
    The book I linked to is one of hundreds and hundreds about Kabbalah (I haven't read that particular book myself but I searched for some resource online about evil and Kabbalah to show you some 'evidence' for the traditional interpretation of the sephirot Gevurah). The book itself is in English anyway, not in Italian :). PS: Very cool to hear that you are half Italian! :)
     
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