Bruce Fenton, A Better Human Origin Story |429|

Soul that commits suicide by dissolving into the "eternal oneness of all" is not immortal. It ceases to exist.
Just because a soul may have (as I implied) the option to exist forever does not (in my opinion) imply it has to... but I suggest this may be true from a choice I have made. That choice is to not hold within my current set of operational assumptions that a "third party God thingie" determines what is true for myself as an individualized expression of consciousness.

What I suggested may be a possibility is for a soul to choose to disolve yet also, have the capacity to exist in an unbroken, continous individualized state as "soul" forever if that soil chooses.
 
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Karma is a tricky one. Generally I avoid using the term, it seems to have so many different meanings, some rooted in serious religious tradition, others in modern colloquial conversation. However what does seem apparent to me, not from one life to the next, but just within this present single lifetime, is that some events are interconnected. Perhaps I'd say I recognise some of these events not as simple cause and effect, that is overly simplistic, but there are interactions between seemingly completely separate events.

One thing I'd add in terms of reincarnation. I seem to have picked up the pieces and carried on with the same things which were my lot in a past life. That isn't how I think karma is usually considered. I think perhaps I see it as simply a continuation, not in terms of worldly goods or status in society or anything like that, but of those things on the inside, the things that make us ourselves.
 
Bruce how do you stand on the notion that human civilisation may be cyclical? Graham Hancock and others make compelling arguments for there being a sophisticated culture prior to 10kya. There is compelling evidence for complex and sophisticated tech going back - who knows - 40, 50, 60kya.

Ergo might not much earlier movement been facilitated by competent navigators with well-made craft?
I think a lot comes down to what we consider to be signatures of high culture or advanced civilization, we don't find much evidence that points to a civilization with the technological advancement we have today (some texts are suggestive it did exist once) but I think Graham Hancock is right that we probably had a 'fairly advanced' civilization existing before the Younger Dryas, maybe equal to how things were a couple of hundred years ago in the 'developed world' nations. We also may have had cultures with very advanced spiritual or psychical attainment but they rejected high tech, it would be hard to identify such evidence from the archaeological records.
 
Bruce,

What I have heard about "service to self" (evil) is that it is supposedly a parallel path of soul development that eventually leads to the same end result as "service to others" (good). Is this what you are referring to? If so, what is the evidence upon which you base belief in it?

I am somewhat doubtful that such a path of soul development exists, mainly because it is conspicuously absent from discussions such as the one I have quoted below (ie I cannot find any confirmation of it from sources I believe are reliable). I am not saying evil does not exist, I am saying it is more likely due to ignorance or lack of development. I don't want to suppress any truth but if it is not true it is a particularly harmful falsehood because it could be used to rationalize evil actions.
Keep in mind this is just information that was included in the message, I am not saying people must believe it because I can't provide specific objective evidence. We do know that many people alive today claim to be 'starseeds' or aliens in human bodies and among those are some saying they are reptillians, cat people, greys, Pleiadians and many others. That does mesh precisely with what has been said in this information. The information suggests that the human form/life offers enlightenment potential that does not normally exist for some of the STS entities in this sector of space. This seems to mesh with Tibetan Buddhist claims the human vehicle is the best for making progress and even gods and demons are jealous of us and wish for reincarnation in human forms.
 
I think a lot comes down to what we consider to be signatures of high culture or advanced civilization, we don't find much evidence that points to a civilization with the technological advancement we have today (some texts are suggestive it did exist once) but I think Graham Hancock is right that we probably had a 'fairly advanced' civilization existing before the Younger Dryas, maybe equal to how things were a couple of hundred years ago in the 'developed world' nations. We also may have had cultures with very advanced spiritual or psychical attainment but they rejected high tech, it would be hard to identify such evidence from the archaeological records.
This is an interesting thing. There ae suggestions in Egypt that stone work, large and small, would have taken tech we don't have. I am particularly intrigued by scoop marks in stone. They are suggestive of methodologies and technologies unfamiliar to us. Place the inferred tech capacity into a larger context and we are looking at a culture that would have shipping and navigational capacities that exceed our imagination.

If there are cycles of development and destruction can we assume that even going back 800,000 years there were not 'advanced' humans? There was a book I read ages ago and now, sadly just another one of many from which I drew some intellectual nourishment. It argued cogently that some South American communities in the wilderness of the Amazon were not 'evolving' humans but remnants of more complex communities who had adapted to what seemed to us to be 'primitive' lifestyles. The Amazon region certainly was more settled than now. The argument was based on social rituals and language. It wouldn't be popular in conventional archaeology or anthropology.

At the time the argument made a lot of sense. Apparently levels of human evolution depend upon what is available to sustain them. Are we encountering a people on an involutionary trajectory or an evolutionary one? Are we dealing with vectors or waves?

I don't have an opinion, just questions.
 
That assertion seems to be an unfounded belief, rather than evidence-based. There is evidence to show the contrary.
The evidence shows that the "eternal oneness of all" does not exist. It is merely a religious belief.

If it would be possible to dissolve into some cosmic slime ball, perhaps the soul wouldn't be completely destroyed, but it would still only exist in a vegetative state.
 
Keep in mind this is just information that was included in the message, I am not saying people must believe it because I can't provide specific objective evidence. We do know that many people alive today claim to be 'starseeds' or aliens in human bodies and among those are some saying they are reptillians, cat people, greys, Pleiadians and many others. That does mesh precisely with what has been said in this information. The information suggests that the human form/life offers enlightenment potential that does not normally exist for some of the STS entities in this sector of space. This seems to mesh with Tibetan Buddhist claims the human vehicle is the best for making progress and even gods and demons are jealous of us and wish for reincarnation in human forms.
I am an experiencer of a single anomalous experience at age six which has had a major impact on my entire life (I am aged 62 now). For this reason I have explored all sorts of fringe subjects like so many that discussed here at Skeptiko (and thanfully are becomming less and less "fringe"). I have also explored other forums. One particular forum is focused on UFO/UAP. And what I have learned is that the UFO community is comprised of two distinct groups, one that is interested in the physical nature of the phenomena and the other that is focussed upon the experiential nature of the phenomena. It is the experiential that I am most interested.

The reason I wrote the above is to establish a basic foundation to a reader as to why I am about to suggest the following - a strange theory that just popped into my head. That being a "joining" of sorts of the crux of what you, Bruce, have shared, especially the history you suggest... and what I have discovered with regards to so many of the experiencer testimonies. It would take a few pages for me to write this up properly but here's the gist of my theory.

For a being of a specific "soul nature" to incarnate in a human body vehicle on Earth... it may take several generations of familial "experiencing" for a bloodline to be prepared for a starseed birth into a physical body vehicle. Let me be clearer by using some examples. I know experiencers who have had unusual anomalous experiences yet have not had the dramatic ones like others I know (let's call this a stage one experience). An example of a dramatic experience is the one which is more common than most might think (or wish to believe), the one where a female is raped by a being she perceives is a reptilian humanoid type being (there are other themes that don't involve "reptilian" but I will focus on this to make the point). So imagine that this is a stage two type experience. And then imagine a stage three type experience is that where the woman thinks she has birthed a child that is not human or is some sort of hybrid. And then we have the stage four type experience where one perceives they are not your typical human, they come across information related to starseeds and BAM! that's it! They now have it figured out, it now makes sense to them, they are a starseed of this or that type (and rarely does one admit if they sense they are a reptilian starseed).

And so back to why I have this theory that birthing of a starseed may take generations. In my investigations I find an all too common link between someone at one of these higher stages sharing about their mother (or grandmother) [in cases of a female lineage of the anomalous] where the previous generation has expressed experiences which suggest an equal or prior stage was being experienced.

Another thing is that it is rare to find stage four types that are open to sharing their experiences (and conclusions), but I have. In addition, I have yet to come upon what might be a potential stage five being.

One thing to throw in... I recently read an experiencer's story which was like a stage two type. The stage two involved a woman's post (on another forum) about her experience with a reptoid type being though she had quickly deleted her post and I didn't read the post but someone who had had mentioned the reptoid connection. So what struck me as interesting is that she had also seen "coming at" her what she described as "looking like red blood cells" and this is when my mind went "click" to the possibility the process of achieving a starseed birth may be a process that spans seveeral generations. Each generation experiences that which impacts their DNA (and the DNA switching) but that to achieve the capacity for an actual non-earthly "soul" to incarnate in an earthly body vehicle may take several generations of involvement with the source of the starseed implantation. Essentially the entry point is first through the mind (via the field of consciousness) that eventually manipulates the code which eventually allows for the "non-local soul" (such as a soul that has experienced many, many reptilian lifetimes) to be birthed in the prepared physical body vehicle.
 
Sam,
The more that I think about consciousness the more I think that we are all (in a Buddhist sense) dreaming this life. All of this is just a projection of our mind. I have no doubt about what you are saying. But it seems that everyone is saying something slightly different and I think that everyone is right in some sense. This life is nothing but Plato's cave allegory.
 
Sam,
The more that I think about consciousness the more I think that we are all (in a Buddhist sense) dreaming this life. All of this is just a projection of our mind. I have no doubt about what you are saying. But it seems that everyone is saying something slightly different and I think that everyone is right in some sense. This life is nothing but Plato's cave allegory.
Actually I share your view completely! I was playing around in one of the many cavities within Plato's cave. I see it all as consciousness experiencing itself and the "I" (Sam Hunter) am simply a current coagulation of that infinite consciousness that sometimes thinks I have free will (that "I" impact this collective dream) and yet when miracles happen, wonder if I don't... haha... but there I just hit on the keyword - wonder... and thus, wonderment. This is what it all is for me - an exploration into what may be true and how wonderful (and horrific at times) the illusion can be.
 
The evidence shows that the "eternal oneness of all" does not exist. It is merely a religious belief.

If it would be possible to dissolve into some cosmic slime ball, perhaps the soul wouldn't be completely destroyed, but it would still only exist in a vegetative state.
Evidence is found by those who seek it and the kind of evidence that is found is determined by the seeker's wish and desire. If one wishes to find evidence life is nothing but a cosmic accident that manifested within a purely physical potential, then I promise one will be flooded with such evidence. And as one's life moves on and on, prior to their death (or perhaps in a lifetime after), one might get sick and tired of the meaninglessness of it all and then comes that lovely "dark night of the soul" which, if one is fortunate, a shift in their experiences occurs (due to the crack in the door of their previously closed mind) where a miracle or two is un-evadable to their focused attention and suddenly... uh, oh, their world view begins to shift. It doesn't have to go down a path of a religion (which may result in new but different "dark nights"), but might just reveal the fundamental of it all - consciousness. Once one sees that, unless they decide to sell out, they will never touch materialism again.

I know a few former LaVeyian "Satanists" who woke up and if one of them can, anyone can.
 
Evidence is found by those who seek it and the kind of evidence that is found is determined by the seeker's wish and desire. If one wishes to find evidence life is nothing but a cosmic accident that manifested within a purely physical potential, then I promise one will be flooded with such evidence. And as one's life moves on and on, prior to their death (or perhaps in a lifetime after), one might get sick and tired of the meaninglessness of it all and then comes that lovely "dark night of the soul" which, if one is fortunate, a shift in their experiences occurs (due to the crack in the door of their previously closed mind) where a miracle or two is un-evadable to their focused attention and suddenly... uh, oh, their world view begins to shift. It doesn't have to go down a path of a religion (which may result in new but different "dark nights"), but might just reveal the fundamental of it all - consciousness. Once one sees that, unless they decide to sell out, they will never touch materialism again.

I know a few former LaVeyian "Satanists" who woke up and if one of them can, anyone can.
CLARO!
 
Evidence is found by those who seek it and the kind of evidence that is found is determined by the seeker's wish and desire. If one wishes to find evidence life is nothing but a cosmic accident that manifested within a purely physical potential, then I promise one will be flooded with such evidence. And as one's life moves on and on, prior to their death (or perhaps in a lifetime after), one might get sick and tired of the meaninglessness of it all and then comes that lovely "dark night of the soul" which, if one is fortunate, a shift in their experiences occurs (due to the crack in the door of their previously closed mind) where a miracle or two is un-evadable to their focused attention and suddenly... uh, oh, their world view begins to shift. It doesn't have to go down a path of a religion (which may result in new but different "dark nights"), but might just reveal the fundamental of it all - consciousness. Once one sees that, unless they decide to sell out, they will never touch materialism again.

I know a few former LaVeyian "Satanists" who woke up and if one of them can, anyone can.

I'm not a materialist. I believe in personal survival after death. These quotations by Titus Rivas summarize very well what I think about this topic:

My own conceptualisation of reincarnation is personalistic. I hold that the mind is not some impersonal or collective category, but the life of a constant, substantial self.
There can be no mind without a self. The self is the ontological substance which is the condition for mental life. This goes for any mind, both animal and human, and even for any possible extraterrestrial and discarnate minds.
AMNESIA: The universality of reincarnation and the preservation of psychological structure by Titus Rivas, MA
 
Keep in mind this is just information that was included in the message, I am not saying people must believe it because I can't provide specific objective evidence. We do know that many people alive today claim to be 'starseeds' or aliens in human bodies and among those are some saying they are reptillians, cat people, greys, Pleiadians and many others. That does mesh precisely with what has been said in this information. The information suggests that the human form/life offers enlightenment potential that does not normally exist for some of the STS entities in this sector of space. This seems to mesh with Tibetan Buddhist claims the human vehicle is the best for making progress and even gods and demons are jealous of us and wish for reincarnation in human forms.
Bruce,

I don't have any objection to what you say here. I suppose I would like to ask those who are giving the messages what exactly they mean by "service-to-self". Is it something for a particular incarnation for a particular purpose, or is it a path that can lead to the highest level of spiritual development? Do you know what they meant by it?

Also, can you explain how the messages come through? Is "service-to-self" literally coming from the sender in those exact words, or is it an interpretation by the medium?
 
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And what I have learned is that the UFO community is comprised of two distinct groups, one that is interested in the physical nature of the phenomena and the other that is focussed upon the experiential nature of the phenomena. It is the experiential that I am most interested.
What I find a little incongruous here is that much of the remainder of the post focusses upon the physical, the DNA, the bloodline, the physical body. Rather more of a physical interest than I would have expected, given the opening statements.

I'm sympathetic with an experiential view. That is to say, how it impacts the individual consciousness of the person having the experience, and to some extent, the collective consciousness. On the other matters I am neutral.
 
Responding to Typoz - Though it is the experiential that I am most interested in, almost all experiencers of the phenomena, whether they "see" a UFO or they experience "abduction" when they thought they were asleep, almost always report their findings via descriptions that relate to something they are familiar with from their life experiences involving their senses, realiting to or reminding them of physical objects, even if they use the refernces as metaphors. I call the reality of physical objects "hard reality." Still, in my experience with synchronicity, the arising of "things" objjects or information transmitted via a physical means, consdering the timing of the arisings, speak to me metaphorically and all that is is, for me, experiential.

Since I hold the metaphysical, cosmological assumption of Idealism (specifically Monistic Idealism), (for me) that which may appear as a hard object is still within all, all being all consciousness. I hold there's a seemless transition from the field of consciousness and its potential for coagulative organizations to arise within that consciousness whether they be a thought form or a table and chair where my physical body is stationed while eating my lunch, or my individualized "self" as a soul with potential for immortality.

So, I also am open to organizations of consciousness that are capable of appearing in different forms to different levels of a perceiver's limits of perception (Extra Dimensional beings as an example). I also am open to macro organizations within grander consciousness such as what some call "physicality" and the physical world can appear as a whole, albeit, in my view, within all consciousness and thus other regions of consciousness may contain a similar property - appearance as a whole.

Regarding the post - Since the human body is part of physicality, DNA may play a role that bridges hard physicality with the subtler regions of grand reality. I hold the possibility that beings (individualized manifestations of consciousness) can exist at various regions of consciousness where to the physical human being, if the being is observed might appear in as a physical body yet also, within the senses considered by the individualized mind of that same being might appear to the perceiver in a form that is not existing within hard physicality and is only perceived by the mind of the observer (as seems to be the case with Reptilian rape experiences). I hold the possibility that a being such as this may have the desire and wherewithal to insert itself into hard physicality and thus the post I wrote was simply a theory based on how "they" might be achieving that goal.

I am not a dualist so I see it all as experiential to an individualized perceiver where it all has arisen from the potential of and within infinite consciousness.
 
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