Bruce Fenton, A Better Human Origin Story |429|

Have now listened to the podcast. Very interesting, and a great job done by both Alex and Bruce in presenting the ideas and contentions. Thanks, guys.

Would need at least to listen to the podcast another time, and almost certainly to read Bruce's and Valerie's books, before even hoping to come to a clear understanding of exactly what's being proposed and why, so if the response to the rest of this post is "Stop wasting our time - just do the listening/reading; that will answer your questions / address your points", then fair enough. I have, at least, reread those parts of this thread that are directly relevant to the podcast (as opposed to, say, the somewhat-related diversions into ID, which I skipped on a second reading).

That said, I would love - for the purposes of a clear overview - for Bruce to respond to David's post on page 3 re the proposed sequence of events.

I also think that malf's objection has not been adequately addressed:



A fair question, malf. As I understand it (and this might be way off base), the exchange stands roughly like this:

malf: It doesn't seem to me that there's a problem with the mainstream view that Australia was populated 60-70,0000 years ago by migration from South-East Asia, because the route at that time was mostly by land (due to lower sea levels).

Bruce: But I'm not talking about 60-70,000 years ago, I'm talking about a million years ago.

In which case, isn't Bruce's a non-response? We are talking about the viability of the mainstream view, which is based on a migration several tens of thousands of years ago, so what happened millions of years ago is surely irrelevant?

I hope I am not misunderstanding/misrepresenting anybody, and I welcome any corrections/clarifications.

Also, to be clear: I am not endorsing either view, though I am very sympathetic to a view which has indigenous Australians here from the start, as their oral tradition claims (not least because their oral traditions have proven to have been reliable in many other respects).
Thanks Laird. I was just about to listen again as I thought I must be missing something.
 
Thanks Laird. I was just about to listen again as I thought I must be missing something.
Well, I think you might be missing something. According to the transcript, Bruce said in the interview that there is evidence that "right back to th[e] beginning of th[e] homo sapiens story, [...] there were hominins in the area [of Oceania and Australia]". So, it seems to me that his response to your criticism is (would be): regardless of whether or not the mainstream view is correct in arguing that migration to Australia several tens of thousands of years ago was possible (and occurred) due to low sea levels, it is anyway incorrect that the presence of homo sapiens in Australia is due to its (our) arrival in Australia via that means at that time, because homo sapiens (and the precursors of homo sapiens) were - based on reliable evidence - already there well before that time.

Perhaps Bruce is even saying that the precursors to homo sapiens were present in Australia right from the time of the proposed alien craft break-up, 780,000 years ago.

I hope that Bruce will clarify if I have misrepresented him, and especially whether the "perhaps" of my previous paragraph is actually what he is saying.
 
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Perhaps Bruce is even saying that the precursors to homo sapiens were present in Australia right from the time of the proposed alien craft break-up, 780,000 years ago.
In fact, there's no "perhaps" about it, nor any need for him to clarify that quote, because shortly after that which I quoted him saying in the interview in my above post, he said this, according to the interview transcript: "Now, this is going back at least a million years ago, so this is before the rise of homo sapiens".

In other words, it seems to be Bruce's contention, based on the evidence, that the precursor hominids to homo sapiens were present in Australia/Oceania one million years ago, before the proposed alien craft break-up.
 
Remember, this is the article Bruce posted. I’ve read it carefully several times... I don’t think it supports anything he is claiming.
I think you omitted the link to the article, which I assume is the one Bruce posted in post #36, https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...es-rhino-south-east-asia-flores-a8335241.html?

In any case, to resolve this, perhaps you could describe what you think it is that Bruce is claiming, then why you think the article doesn't support those claims?
 
∧ Deductive inconsistency between genetic and archeo-datings for 'Out of Africa' singular migration hypothesis
Into Africa 73 Kya
∧ Eurasia migrations Out of Africa 50-60 Kya


I am gonna attempt this, but must comment that I am not fully versed on this and normally would not make conjecture therein. But will try and summarize what I think Bruce is supporting (???). Brian Sykes outlines in his excellent work, The Seven Daughters of Eve - the 7 mitochondrial (mother's) DNA groupings in which all of Humanity bear membership. All of these seven groups emanate from one individual female (moniker 'Eve') in Africa from 60 K ya.​
This fits nicely with Out of Africa socio-anthropology theory. It however is inductive only as a stand alone observation.​
Once we open up the vastly more complex and risky set of autosomal DNA (the complete makeup of the organism, not simply the mother's mother's DNA), the question of origins become more convoluted - not murky per se, but rather contradictory. Autosomal DNA shows older human autosomal DNA outside of Africa - which is a problem if one is to presume that mankind originated IN Africa.​
So, we face the alternative of assembling conjecture that this older DNA wandered INTO Africa and banged Mitochondrial Eve.. and that progeny then exited Africa at a later time.​
∧ These same changes were not paralleled inside other hominin, and should have had analogue progressions occur
∧ The HAR changes were enormously successful on the first try, as there existed no neutral interea mutations in the conserved genome

Chimpanzee and proto-humans split at a Last Common Ancestor around 4 to 8 million years ago. Common to both us and chimps are regions of the genome which pertain to our vocal, spatial processing and frontal lobe cognitive abilities. These regions of the genome have been very resistant to change through the history of hominidae (apes). They are our evolutionary fitness asset as a family.​
However, after humans diverged from this lineage, all of a sudden mutations in these regions became all the rage (human accelerated regions). Suddenly this area began to mutate in mass and more importantly, in blocks - and​
a. possessed no interea - i.e. no conserved history of neutral, benign or failed mutations​
b. happened 10,000 times faster than even average whole genome mutation rates​
c. produced specific highly advantageous ergodicity (advantageous capabilities)​
d. were constrained to only these cognitive functional areas.​
Meanwhile in our peer lineages - those sister hominidae species under the same environment and same genetic pressures and bearing the same exact DNA............................... NOTHING mutated. Humans were adapting at an alarming rate, ...................yet our sister species, eating the same things and bearing the same DNA, in the same exact environment, here longer, and under extaordinary genetic and inbreeding pressure themselves

..........did not have one base pair migration, did not undergo a single frameshift and had not altered a thing....
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excellent! many thx.
 
Wormwood asked, couldn't downloads be deceptive?

I brought up that possibility of trickster deception in downloads or visions and the like at the outset, but it wasn't picked up on. I know of a case where hundreds in a ufology forum were deceived by counterfeiters for many years. Eventually the latter were outed and the group dispersed, many with PTSD. Note also that many abductees talk of looking into the eyes of their abductors and feeling overwhelming love. Mind control is often at work, and the victims (many of whom can be very bright Ph.D.s) have no clue.
wow great point... sorry I missed it.

Can you provide any more information / links about download deception? this is an interesting topic. has many (but less sophisticated) parallels with the richard doty disinformation campaign against Paul Bennewitz. funny how everyone seems to forget about that case.
 
great stuff... opens up many new avenues!

I find this all really interesting but a bit confusing.

Bruce seems to be talking nuts and bolts Alien manipulation on one hand and present day "psychic" manipulation at the same time, one fits a timescale and is accidental (if so who is doing the manipulation of that) the other a sort of psi "watcher" long term thing.
I think you're right to point out the contradictions this presents. but I think this is the new reality once we try to "scientifically" explore extended consciousness. grab microscope in one hand and a telescope in the other?


One of the strange manipulators is the whole "crapsicle" debate which seems to be morphing into a branch of science,
where gut bacteria can almost control the emotions of the host and a change in gut bacteria will make the timid brave and the brave timid.
Now if you control diet ( and most religions do) you can sort of control bacteria.
I know this is a small thing but I introduce it to show how complicated this manipulation really is and how we need to
look out to the mundane and see it isnt so mundane after all.
Step in a pile of shit and your whole life could change, never mind aliens landing on your head.
great observation... thanks for connecting it to this conversation.

what immediately springs to mind is the stoned ape hypothesis... i.e. what happens when an ancient human stumbles across a psilocybin mushroom and travels into the extended consciousness realms?
 
Bruce: But I'm not talking about 60-70,000 years ago, I'm talking about a million years ago.

In which case, isn't Bruce's a non-response? We are talking about the viability of the mainstream view, which is based on a migration several tens of thousands of years ago, so what happened millions of years ago is surely irrelevant?
I think two theories became mixed together here. first is bruce's dismantling of the out of africa theory. second is bruce's theory about an event from 780000 years ago. the two are essentially unrelated.
 
Hi Blaise, I have heard that the most significant person in a Buddhist monastery is the cook, because they can influence the mental state of all the monks by how and what they serve for food, but this must surely be temporary, only 3 days for food to pass through. Is this what you mean by "crapsicle" debate?
True, an 'alien' bacteria could access a human body by one's stepping in shit and bacteria do treat us as gut hosts, along with viruses and fungi, but I think because they are not driven by a singular conscious entity, more a drive to survive, they cannot be compared to an intelligent outsider having the means to control by genetic manipulation.
Hi Alice
No its not a temporary thing in that the effect lasts as long as the transfered biome stays dominant in the gut.
Crapsicle refers to "crap in a capsule" or taking the biome from a "healthy" person's gut and putting it into a "sick" person.
The effect of this can even change a persons temprament amoungst other things.
I only wanted to add this to the debate to show how complicated the effects on our psyche are.
Could the voice in your head be from an alien, spirit,tulpa,drugs from food,infection or stuff in our guts.
 
great stuff... opens up many new avenues!


I think you're right to point out the contradictions this presents. but I think this is the new reality once we try to "scientifically" explore extended consciousness. grab microscope in one hand and a telescope in the other?



great observation... thanks for connecting it to this conversation.

what immediately springs to mind is the stoned ape hypothesis... i.e. what happens when an ancient human stumbles across a psilocybin mushroom and travels into the extended consciousness realms?
Yes Alex
I have a sort of fondness for the stoned ape thing but note that it seems far less of the drug dose was needed the further you go back, the Egyptians
used blue lotus which hardly touches us today, perhaps they were closer to the veil than we are.
 
wow great point... sorry I missed it.

Can you provide any more information / links about download deception? this is an interesting topic. has many (but less sophisticated) parallels with the richard doty disinformation campaign against Paul Bennewitz. funny how everyone seems to forget about that case.
As I have stated here before, I gave up on research in the field of ufology after a year or so, because it was clear to me that the field is a labyrinth of disinformation and deception. I looked up Richard Doty just now and learned that it was he who provided much of the disinformation-- stories of UFO crashes and secret UFO management groups, such as the fabled MJ-12--which became the subject of a large amount of books, movies, video games, television shows et alia. In my own research I learned that the tricksters at play can be either humans or interdimensional spirits or the two acting in conjuncntion. Often dark interdimensional entities will pose as ETs--as Star Nations-- here to help humanity. IMO anyone who sets out with the intention to receive downloads needs to rigorously invoke protection and gatekeeping to ensure quality control of what is received. When downloads occur spontaneously--even with a large group--great care must be taken to test their validity. If you interview Valerie, Alex, I ask you to bear all this in mind.
 
Intrigued by his story and evidence connecting this account to actual facts. Gnostic teachings and a bit of Chris Geo and you have yourself a working hypothesis...archons, Michael Tellinger? My mind reels, as they don't really contradict each other. Wow. More exploration needed. Hadibov? I mean really, its astounding how all these stories link up...Alex- please explore these strands as I think you will find a lot in common. Love your work!!
 
I think you omitted the link to the article, which I assume is the one Bruce posted in post #36, https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...es-rhino-south-east-asia-flores-a8335241.html?

In any case, to resolve this, perhaps you could describe what you think it is that Bruce is claiming, then why you think the article doesn't support those claims?
Thanks for that. I ended up listening again and I've realised that my confusion comes from Bruce conflating evidence for "hominids in the region" with modern humans in Australia. It gets a bit sketchy but this appears to be an effort to create a timeline to crowbar in the more fantastical parts of his story.
 
If this is really the way that this physical reality works then it would seem that ET understands this better than us considering their seemingly hyper advanced understanding of consciousness. So, is their motive one in keeping with this idea of the growth of consciousness? Are they tending a garden here that consciousness may then use in order to grow? Or, are their goals more materialistic in nature? People often say during their experiences that they feel connected to everything and everyone. I’d be willing to bet that this connection transcends our Universe and that we share a connection of some sort with all consciousness, irregardless of where it comes from or “resides.”
Wormwood, perfectly lucid questions. My sense is that these 'creators' must be at the foundation of the creation myths, so I am disposed to think they have a motive to facilitate the evolution of our consciousness. That may involve stimulating the evolution of human physical forms to enable a higher order of consciousness to express in the physical world.

I think what we need to work through is a number of propositions:
  • Humanity refers to a spiritual, rather than physical being.
  • Humanity refers to a set of attributes of consciousness describing a specific quality, or set of qualities.
  • There is a benefit obtained by experiencing physical existence.
  • That benefit enhances the evolution of human spiritual consciousness.
  • The quality of human experience in the physical is modified by the quality of refinement of the physical body.
  • Agents aiding human spiritual evolution would be motivated to 'evolve' the physical body so that it can adapt to projected experiences.
I am not asserting these propositions are true, but they are consistent with experiences and interpretations of them, as well as with beliefs and traditions. It strikes me that what is true is at least in this part of the ballpark.

There are numerous accounts of 'spirit guides' aiding the evolution of human consciousness. There is a worldwide tradition that suggests that breeding, hybrid or otherwise, is supposed to produce more refined humans [but checking out royals would make you wonder]. And perhaps, more to the point in an as above so below kind of way - this is exactly what we humans do for ourselves. Among some classes, we manage our breeding - seeking out or avoiding 'hybridisation'. We train and educate and generally seek to 'improve' ourselves and others. We send folk out as missionaries, promoters and developers of varying kinds to uplift others.

What part of the ET 'agenda' do we not partake in on our own account? In all this there are base and venal motives as well, but the spectrum of activity and intent tends to be benign, aspirational and uplifting. We abhor the opposite, as a rule. Those who are motivated to 'self-improvement' tend to seek to lift up others as well - in ways that can be seen as naive as well as noble.
 
Hi Alice
No its not a temporary thing in that the effect lasts as long as the transfered biome stays dominant in the gut.
Crapsicle refers to "crap in a capsule" or taking the biome from a "healthy" person's gut and putting it into a "sick" person.
The effect of this can even change a persons temprament amoungst other things.
I only wanted to add this to the debate to show how complicated the effects on our psyche are.
Could the voice in your head be from an alien, spirit,tulpa,drugs from food,infection or stuff in our guts.
Right, yes I've heard of the procedure, and its efficacy in healing, but not of the psychological effects.
It correlates well with the discovery that heart transplants have shown memory retention and personality changes related to the donor in recipients.
This isn't surprising since 60% of the heart is made up of cells identical to the brain. Also that more information travels to our brain from our heart than the other way around. We behave as if we're very cranium-brain centred, while the gut and heart are also 'brains'.

Dr Michael Moseley a gut dietician, says 'the gut is extremely clever. It contains millions of neurones and is home to microbes and neurotransmitters that communicate with the brain and influence our mood by altering neural signals via the blood and vagus nerve'.
We are mostly unaware of the influence of this, except in phrases like having 'a gut-feeling' or 'an impulse of the heart'
 
Intrigued by his story and evidence connecting this account to actual facts. Gnostic teachings and a bit of Chris Geo and you have yourself a working hypothesis...archons, Michael Tellinger? My mind reels, as they don't really contradict each other. Wow. More exploration needed. Hadibov? I mean really, its astounding how all these stories link up...Alex- please explore these strands as I think you will find a lot in common. Love your work!!
thx Iam... I'm on it :)
 
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