Challenge to materialist atheist accepted

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

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#61
I don't fear living forever either. I don't even understand how it is possible to fear living forever.

I disagree with Paul. I don't believe in the alternative b, and I would change the alternative a as follows: I'm going to exist forever and there is no possible way this won't be absolutely delightful.
Again, I think you are imagining "a long time" rather than "forever." What could you possibly do forever that wouldn't become unbearable after awhile? That is, unless you were in some sort of permanent blissful state that has no feel of time passing, in which case you wouldn't be you anymore.

Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end. ---Woody Allen
 
#63
How can one even grasp the term forever, eternal, infinite? I think we are very limited in understanding to these concepts. I don't even understand what it would mean for something to have no beginning and no ending.

When thinking about these concepts for me it's like a dog trying to understand or formulate gravity.... I don't think we have the capability to grasp what forever or eternity would feel like or be.
 
#64
It better appear to be infinitely dynamic, in which case, again, you wouldn't be you.

~~ Paul
I'm not sure I'm all that concerned about existing forever as the current "me", as long as all the information and the memories of the thousands of "me's" that ever lived or will live are in tact for all of eternity. Otherwise, what's the point. And yes ... our definition and interpretation of eternity are lacking as we cannot remotely fathom it.
 
#65
Again, I think you are imagining "a long time" rather than "forever." What could you possibly do forever that wouldn't become unbearable after awhile?
This quotation from Michael Prescott's blog post is a good summary:
If we look at mediumistic accounts, we find that the newly deceased report themselves existing in an earthlike world where time passes, lessons are learned, and new experiences are enjoyed. But this so-called Summerland environment is not the be-all and end-all of afterlife realms. It is more like a way station, a place to rest and recuperate after the rigors of incarnation. We are consistently told that higher realms await, and that these realms are progressively less earthlike.

The highest realm, our ultimate destination, is indescribable, but apparently it has none of the properties we associate with earthly life, including physical space and sequential time. It is the eternal now. In this state we are not marking off years like a convict in a cell. We are not seeking to "make a dent in infinity." Boredom, repetition, and other issues associated with lengthy time periods are irrelevant to a state of existence in which time does not exist.
http://michaelprescott.typepad.com/michael_prescotts_blog/2017/02/world-without-end-amen.html

That is, unless you were in some sort of permanent blissful state that has no feel of time passing, in which case you wouldn't be you anymore.
I disagree. Evidence suggests that personal identity is retained. Andy Petro's NDE is a good example of this:

I was aware that I was being "absorbed" into the Light, became One with the Light. But, at the same time never lost my "Andy-ness"!
http://iands.org/research/publications/vital-signs/67-vs25no1petro.html?showall=&start=6
 
#68
I think you are imagining a "long time" as opposed to "forever." I don't believe you could sustain your interest forever unless perhaps you were a different sort of being.

~~ Paul
Hi Paul - welcome back!

Don't forget that quite a lot of people who have experienced NDE's etc, rfeport a timaless domain - as if they could observe a whole block of space-time in one gulp!


David
 

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

Nap, interrupted.
Member
#69
I'm not sure I'm all that concerned about existing forever as the current "me", as long as all the information and the memories of the thousands of "me's" that ever lived or will live are in tact for all of eternity. Otherwise, what's the point. And yes ... our definition and interpretation of eternity are lacking as we cannot remotely fathom it.
Intact for you to access? Or just intact in some kind of objective akashic record? If the former, I don't think that helps make eternity not feel like . . . well, eternity. If the latter, who cares?

~~ Paul
 

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

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Member
#70
This quotation from Michael Prescott's blog post is a good summary:

"The highest realm, our ultimate destination, is indescribable, but apparently it has none of the properties we associate with earthly life, including physical space and sequential time. It is the eternal now. In this state we are not marking off years like a convict in a cell. We are not seeking to "make a dent in infinity." Boredom, repetition, and other issues associated with lengthy time periods are irrelevant to a state of existence in which time does not exist."
This is not "you" living forever. This is you becoming something else that doesn't notice time passing. And if you no longer have an experience of time, your memories won't make any sense and would probably be unavailable.

I disagree. Evidence suggests that personal identity is retained. Andy Petro's NDE is a good example of this:
We have no idea whether NDEs are a glimpse of the afterlife, let alone the sort of afterlife we're talking about here.

~~ Paul
 

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

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Member
#71
Hi Paul - welcome back!
Thanks!

Don't forget that quite a lot of people who have experienced NDE's etc, rfeport a timaless domain - as if they could observe a whole block of space-time in one gulp!
You know that my opinion of all these experiences is that we have no idea whether they are glimpses of an afterlife. I would be surprised if they are.

~~ Paul
 
#80
I have two that I love. But they wouldn't be fun if I did them for a trillion years. And certainly not if I did them forever..

~~ Paul
I see the point.....but that's like saying if I ate a damn good turkey sandwich today that it wouldn't be just as good if I had the same turkey sandwich 10, 20, 1000 years from now.
None of us with our hugely limited mental capacity can comprehend eternity. Why are we trying? How about this? Try to comprehend eternity backwards as in ... where have we been for eternity in opposed to where are we going for eternity. It is incomprehensible. Time doesn't work linearly outside the known physical universe. Eternity is neither a segment, ray or a line as it is not confined to geometric or any other physical boundaries.
 
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