Charlie Morely, Why His Buddhist Teacher Told Him to Dream Into Hell |455|

#21
thx for this great exchange guys... learning a lot.

Jurgen won't be up for a few weeks. I'm backlogged. but I'm happy to share it with you privately if you want to hear the raw version... or we can just wait.
Thanks Alex for the offer on Jurgen's interview. I'm happy to wait for your edit. Also, your friends from Lighting the Void have contacted me and I'll be visiting with them on Aug. 6.
 
#22
thx for this great exchange guys... learning a lot.

Jurgen won't be up for a few weeks. I'm backlogged. but I'm happy to share it with you privately if you want to hear the raw version... or we can just wait.
If that offer extended to me, I'd quite like to see it while it seems so topical.

David
 

Alex

Administrator
#23
Thanks Alex for the offer on Jurgen's interview. I'm happy to wait for your edit. Also, your friends from Lighting the Void have contacted me and I'll be visiting with them on Aug. 6.
great... can't wait to hear it.

Joe is a genuine truth seeker and a first rate interviewer.

get the coffee brewing it's a gonna be a late nite :)
 
#24
Here is the link if you're interested.

https://www.amazon.com/Soul-Awarene...ywords=katharine+mackey&qid=1595330518&sr=8-1

I have to stop here. Duty calls, so I'll leave some questions for another time.
Here are a couple of quotes from that book:

God created you to love you and to express through you in your experiences in physical form.
Disease is a disturbance of energy.
We have had odd discussions on the forum about what exactly the afterlife would be like. The first quote is a problem for me because it seems to imply that the only purpose of creation is for us to love each other! Katherine/Gerod is not the first one to claim this, but it is really hard to accept in that form. To use a rather crude analogy, it is as though you have diner with someone and praise the wonderful sauce on the dish, only to find that on your next visit, your host gives you a serving of sauce on its own! Surely life has to contain more than just love?

Maybe I am so far out of alignment with the way Gerod thinks that I am not understanding him properly?

The second quote could have come equally well from Seth. Do you understand that word 'energy' in the conventional scientific way, or some other way - does it have meaning to you?

David
 
#25
At one point Charlie said:

Yes, I mean, straight off the bat, I don’t believe in any objective existing external evil. I don’t even believe in evil as a concept. I believe in traumatized people acting out unintegrated trauma, which manifests as seeming human evil. But as far as like an objective existing evil or kind of satanic archetype, yeah, I don’t really believe in that.

I believe that there is probably, in the collective unconscious, an archetypal energy of Satan because so many people have believed and projected this belief out of the collective that this thing exists, that it probably does, just as enough people believe that there’s a God concept, that that probably exists too.


Alex - do you think that is an adequate answer to your search for the nature of evil?
David

Hello David,

Reflecting on this theme I wrote the following poem around the time of the interview. I noticed the same questions emerged in the Jasun Horsley interview.


Therapy for the Devil

‘You people are from your father the devil, and you want to do what your father desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. Whenever he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies.’
John 8:44


The central theological question is:

Is Satan truly evil,
Or just acting out his pain?

Could he come to heal his hurt,
Or would his efforts be in vain?

If he met his inner child
Would his hatred start to wain?

Would you trust him if he did
Or suspect a feign?

Could he find redemption
Or has God forever damned him in Hell to reign?


Why is it the central question?
Because it leads to the central question of psychology:



Is evil truly evil
Or is hurt in fact to blame?

This has been the question
Ever since the act of Cane


Are the worst amongst us
Simply acting out their pain?

Or are their souls just wicked
And irrevocably stained?


Which leads of course to the central question of self:



Is there that within me
For which I will ever be blamed?

Or is there hope of redemption
And freedom from these chains?

If I condemn even Satan
Then is it possible to claim?

My own sense of forgiveness
And freedom from my shame


If the latter is the case then an eternal lake of fire will probably only exacerbate the problem
 
#26
Hello David,

Reflecting on this theme I wrote the following poem around the time of the interview. I noticed the same questions emerged in the Jasun Horsley interview.


Therapy for the Devil

‘You people are from your father the devil, and you want to do what your father desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. Whenever he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies.’
John 8:44


The central theological question is:

Is Satan truly evil,
Or just acting out his pain?

Could he come to heal his hurt,
Or would his efforts be in vain?

If he met his inner child
Would his hatred start to wain?

Would you trust him if he did
Or suspect a feign?

Could he find redemption
Or has God forever damned him in Hell to reign?


Why is it the central question?
Because it leads to the central question of psychology:



Is evil truly evil
Or is hurt in fact to blame?

This has been the question
Ever since the act of Cane


Are the worst amongst us
Simply acting out their pain?

Or are their souls just wicked
And irrevocably stained?


Which leads of course to the central question of self:


Is there that within me
For which I will ever be blamed?

Or is there hope of redemption
And freedom from these chains?

If I condemn even Satan
Then is it possible to claim?

My own sense of forgiveness
And freedom from my shame


If the latter is the case then an eternal lake of fire will probably only exacerbate the problem
wow - what a brilliant post, poem and questions posed by the poem... perhaps the most brilliant post I ever read, thanks, Richard.

I always asked myself why deception somehow didn't make the list of the deadly sins? In fact, and IMO, it should not only be on the list (making the list eight), but it should lead the list.
 
#27
Here are a couple of quotes from that book:





We have had odd discussions on the forum about what exactly the afterlife would be like. The first quote is a problem for me because it seems to imply that the only purpose of creation is for us to love each other! Katherine/Gerod is not the first one to claim this, but it is really hard to accept in that form. To use a rather crude analogy, it is as though you have diner with someone and praise the wonderful sauce on the dish, only to find that on your next visit, your host gives you a serving of sauce on its own! Surely life has to contain more than just love?

Maybe I am so far out of alignment with the way Gerod thinks that I am not understanding him properly?

The second quote could have come equally well from Seth. Do you understand that word 'energy' in the conventional scientific way, or some other way - does it have meaning to you?

David
Hello David, I have to say first, I have not read Gerod's book in quite a while. As I glance through the book, it's clear to me that I could give an extended commentary on so much of what Gerod says. It would be like annotating the Bible. Having worked with Gerod all these years and discussed so much in detail, I do understand Gerod's meaning behind the words.
Regarding your first quote, for example: "God created you to love you and to express through you in your experiences in physical form."
Yes, Gerod would say the Divine Light created souls as an act of love. In a basic sense, this is what the Light does—it creates. As beings of Light, it's what we do when in tune with our own Light—love, create, grow, expand. Gerod also says that souls incarnate through lifetimes as a journey of awakening. As we awaken to our own Light and oneness with the Creator, we are bringing Light into this densest reality as well. Gerod said this physical reality was created as the level playing field—a world of Light and dark—where the soul would experience free choice. If a soul incarnated in full knowledge of itself as the Light, why would it choose anything else? The physical reality is the arena where a soul, through its choices, can come to know its own oneness with the Light. The ego may have some limited grasp of this intellectually through myths and stories and metaphor, but it can feel what is Light and what is not. Gerod has said that once a soul awakens, there will be no need to incarnate again, but will move to another level.

"Disease is a disturbance of energy." At the start of Chapter 4 of Soul Awareness, Gerod says, "You are a being following the cadence of a higher energy. This energy is spiritual energy, the energy of God, which is universal in nature." He goes on to talk about this energy which is not limited to physical matter. Disease can be a disturbance of physical energy like eating a poisonous substance, but it also can be the result of energetic interactions at other levels of one's being or reality.
 
#28
Hello David, I have to say first, I have not read Gerod's book in quite a while. As I glance through the book, it's clear to me that I could give an extended commentary on so much of what Gerod says. It would be like annotating the Bible. Having worked with Gerod all these years and discussed so much in detail, I do understand Gerod's meaning behind the words.
Regarding your first quote, for example: "God created you to love you and to express through you in your experiences in physical form."
Yes, Gerod would say the Divine Light created souls as an act of love. In a basic sense, this is what the Light does—it creates. As beings of Light, it's what we do when in tune with our own Light—love, create, grow, expand. Gerod also says that souls incarnate through lifetimes as a journey of awakening. As we awaken to our own Light and oneness with the Creator, we are bringing Light into this densest reality as well. Gerod said this physical reality was created as the level playing field—a world of Light and dark—where the soul would experience free choice. If a soul incarnated in full knowledge of itself as the Light, why would it choose anything else? The physical reality is the arena where a soul, through its choices, can come to know its own oneness with the Light. The ego may have some limited grasp of this intellectually through myths and stories and metaphor, but it can feel what is Light and what is not. Gerod has said that once a soul awakens, there will be no need to incarnate again, but will move to another level.

"Disease is a disturbance of energy." At the start of Chapter 4 of Soul Awareness, Gerod says, "You are a being following the cadence of a higher energy. This energy is spiritual energy, the energy of God, which is universal in nature." He goes on to talk about this energy which is not limited to physical matter. Disease can be a disturbance of physical energy like eating a poisonous substance, but it also can be the result of energetic interactions at other levels of one's being or reality.
I am reading Gerod's book as well, and I share David's concern that love can't be all there is and how that explains all the complexities of life. At the same time..it's would be nice if we could just focus on love. Life would be simpler and I wouldn't have to rack my brain trying to figure out what reality ultimately is. I'm of two minds about this.
 
#29
You are a being following the cadence of a higher energy
Yes, but what exactly does it mean?

Is the word 'energy' to be understood in a totally non-scientific way - it is OK if it is, but surely it needs to have some definition. Then it might be easier to understand how to attach the adjective "higher" to it, or to understand the sentence "Disease is a disturbance of energy. "

I mean, I know psychics use that word to mean something like connection to a spiritual entity, but here it is being used to lay down the structure of reality - so it needs to be reasonably precise!

I'm sorry to sound so negative, but much of what he writes seems as if it could mean almost anything or nothing. Perhaps it does need your extended commentary!

David
 

Alex

Administrator
#30
Hello David,

Reflecting on this theme I wrote the following poem around the time of the interview. I noticed the same questions emerged in the Jasun Horsley interview.


Therapy for the Devil

‘You people are from your father the devil, and you want to do what your father desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. Whenever he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies.’
John 8:44


The central theological question is:

Is Satan truly evil,
Or just acting out his pain?

Could he come to heal his hurt,
Or would his efforts be in vain?

If he met his inner child
Would his hatred start to wain?

Would you trust him if he did
Or suspect a feign?

Could he find redemption
Or has God forever damned him in Hell to reign?


Why is it the central question?
Because it leads to the central question of psychology:



Is evil truly evil
Or is hurt in fact to blame?

This has been the question
Ever since the act of Cane


Are the worst amongst us
Simply acting out their pain?

Or are their souls just wicked
And irrevocably stained?


Which leads of course to the central question of self:


Is there that within me
For which I will ever be blamed?

Or is there hope of redemption
And freedom from these chains?

If I condemn even Satan
Then is it possible to claim?

My own sense of forgiveness
And freedom from my shame


If the latter is the case then an eternal lake of fire will probably only exacerbate the problem
very excellent. thx.

funny, I get that these questions are fundamental but they don't really resonate with me as being the most important in my life... I totally get that this is a personal / individual view. I found this somehow relevant:
 

Alex

Administrator
#31
I am reading Gerod's book as well, and I share David's concern that love can't be all there is and how that explains all the complexities of life. At the same time..it's would be nice if we could just focus on love. Life would be simpler and I wouldn't have to rack my brain trying to figure out what reality ultimately is. I'm of two minds about this.
just wanted to add that the "it's all love thing" is that it's consistent with what I recently heard from jurgen ziewe in my recent interview with him. one thing I like about jurgen is that he's a very down-to-earth guy... so, it's not like he's trying to say that he understands it, just that it's how he has experienced it in these other realms. he talks about wave after wave of an indescribable feeling of love and acceptance, each wave greater than the next.
 
#32
just wanted to add that the "it's all love thing" is that it's consistent with what I recently heard from jurgen ziewe in my recent interview with him. one thing I like about jurgen is that he's a very down-to-earth guy... so, it's not like he's trying to say that he understands it, just that it's how he has experienced it in these other realms. he talks about wave after wave of an indescribable feeling of love and acceptance, each wave greater than the next.
Yes but what does it mean long term? I mean Jurgen Ziewe and Cyrus Kirkpatrick pain a far more complex picture of the after - death reality.

David
 
#33
just wanted to add that the "it's all love thing" is that it's consistent with what I recently heard from jurgen ziewe in my recent interview with him. one thing I like about jurgen is that he's a very down-to-earth guy... so, it's not like he's trying to say that he understands it, just that it's how he has experienced it in these other realms. he talks about wave after wave of an indescribable feeling of love and acceptance, each wave greater than the next.
I agree. That's what most people with these experiences say. The message is pretty consistent. I'm reading Jurgen Ziewe's book now and he says the same thing. Love is our reality.
 
#34
just wanted to add that the "it's all love thing" is that it's consistent with what I recently heard from jurgen ziewe in my recent interview with him. one thing I like about jurgen is that he's a very down-to-earth guy... so, it's not like he's trying to say that he understands it, just that it's how he has experienced it in these other realms. he talks about wave after wave of an indescribable feeling of love and acceptance, each wave greater than the next.
I guess I balk at the word 'all'! I mean, Jurgen Ziewe also describes a lot of 'places' in the non-material world where all kinds of things seem to be going on - whatever he says about love. I have read further into Katherine/Gerod's book, and I want to be fair - it does become more readable in later chapters - for example he has some interesting things to say about energy healing - but the starkness of his introduction really hit me between the eyes.

I guess Richard's poem is also relevant for your study of evil.

David
 
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