Chris Knowles, Rituals of the State Cult |492|

#61
I sometimes suspect those who feel they need religion actually have a lack in their own ability to discren and thus fill that void by enjoining with a collective.
Or, they are saving a lot of time by not trying to re-invent the wheel.

Religion provides a good mechanism for spiritual advancement for people who are illiterate, not scholars, or don't have the time to expend thousands of hours on independant study.

It's similar to Martial Arts. Instead of trying to learn alone, I as a Shaman/Master/Priest/Instructor can take you from zero to competency in just a few years by employing a well-established, proven framework for advancement that has been developed over the course of centuries exactly for that purpose.
 
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#62
Or, they are saving a lot of time by not trying to re-invent the wheel.

Religion provides a good mechanism for spiritual advancement for people who are illiterate, not scholars, or don't have the time to expend thousands of hours on independant study.

It's similar to Martial Arts. Instead of trying to learn alone, I as a Shaman/Master/Priest/Instructor can take you from zero to competency is just a few years by employing a well-established, proven framework for advancement that has been developed over the course of centuries exactly for that purpose.
I understand this perspective but also, that perspective only applies to a broken world. In part, broken by the creation of religions. The creation of the "priest class." So can it "help" someone today? In some cases, yes. But what sense is made of using that which became such a veil upon truth as a vehicle to get back to the truth? Seems disingenuous.

Another reason I have no respect for religion is that I see all the downside of religion such as... shall we say, the witch hunts? the crusades? the pedo-protective "religious orders"? eschatology? and that just considers mostly Christianity.

My imagination embraces a world where, when one enters, one already has all the tools... the knowledge of the nature and science of being is already present, already fully lived by those who dwell there. No "filter" that can only distort truth. From this perspective, religion (IMO) stands in the way. That would include the need for intermediaries.... that vanishes in the world I imagine.

Any "lessons" needing remembering are presented by life, itself.

Life serves as the reminder... nothing more needed.
 
#63
This summarizes the metaphors I share for the snake. In addition, found within some of the Gnostic myths is a completely different "Garden of Eden" story where the snake (as Lucifer as light bearer) is one of the heroes... bringing the awakening to the plight of the beings trapped in the realm of the demiurge. The twisted stories of the bible (as it stands today in all its myriad of "translations" which are really just "re-interpretations meant to control the vulnerable") are part of the reason I don't "do" religion - no religion... ever. .
I think you refer to 'The testimony of Truth'?
http://gnosis.org/naghamm/testruth.html

Many biblical myths have been distorted until the meaning is lost or inverted, sometimes intentionally I suspect. These other points of view were persecuted, proponents slaughtered, by fire, inquisition by torture and enforced under threat of eternal damnation. One could be excused in thinking there was something to hide or some political leverage to be gained contrary to spiritual matters.

The Eden myth is a good example. The garden was the domain of the goddess in world myth, this is why we use the term mother nature still today. She was omitted from the story. Likewise the identity of Lucifer has been erroneously equated with Satan, when it represented Venus, the first light of the morning, the guiding light that then falls into the underworld only to be reborn yet again. Ashera! Again the goddess is misrepresented / omitted.

Perhaps it makes clear the legend of Saint George and the Dragon, Saint Patrick ridding Ireland of snakes. The Snakes being the Gnostic Celts who bore the tattoo of the serpent on their forearm. These are the myths used to persecute the more ancient symbol of divinity. Despite the attempts at eradication it survived and has had somewhat of a revival even if not fully understood.

I could delve deeply into these and other misrepresentations but it tends to upset some, if I haven't already. So I am treading lightly. :) It is incredibly deep, it stretches back into ancient Egypt and possibly even Atlantis, if we give credit to such stories.

When I wrote 'wisest of beasts' I was referring to the Nag Hammadi actually. The root word 'oph' (Greek) means serpent. The syzygy of the masculine Christos was the feminine Sophia goddess of wisdom. The Ophites venerated the serpent as the symbol of Christ. Remembering what this symbol represents as I previously outlined.

The ideal was to cultivate the Christ within. If you think of the coiled serpent of kundalini awakening we begin to see the common thread of mysticism in the ancient world. Esoteric Christianity begins to share similarities with the yogis and Zen masters. Christ consciousness, kundalini awakening and satori. It is all the same thing.

If there be truth, why do I need anything between myself and this truth?.
Well said! The way to Gnosis.

I sometimes suspect those who feel they need religion actually have a lack in their own ability to discren and thus fill that void by enjoining with a collective.
But also, some use "a religion" to bash others over the head which is another reason I see religionsthe way I do.
I have often been extremely critical of the Abrahamic religions to the point of upsetting people who I still respect. I am trying not to do that, I don't wish to cause anger regarding anyone's chosen path. I now try to find the good in all ways, mine is the left hand path, all religion and no religion. It is often judged as evil by fundamentalists. It is a contradiction I think when religion evokes intolerance and self righteous division among people. Whatever happened to the Golden rule, all are equal and judge ye not?

In the end if it makes you a better person I am all for it. If not, you are doing it wrong. I think we will all have a good laugh at how silly we are when the curtain closes. So we may as well have a laugh now in friendship and not spite. We need to stop taking things so seriously. We rally behind things that don't really matter and damage the one true thing that only matters.
 
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#64
I have often been extremely critical of the Abrahamic religions to the point of upsetting people who I still respect. I am trying not to do that, I don't wish to cause anger regarding anyone's chosen path. I now try to find the good in all ways, mine is the left hand path, all religion and no religion. It is often judged as evil by fundamentalists. It is a contradiction I think when religion evokes intolerance and self righteous division among people. Whatever happened to the Golden rule, all are equal and judge ye not?
I respect your desire not to upset people, but of course, Skeptiko is more about letting the truth hang out. Maybe the best approach would be to start a thread entitles "Caution - alternative interpretation of the Bible" and then fire away!

However, it would be nice if you started by explaining where your interpretation comes from. For example, you wrote:
The Eden myth is a good example. The garden was the domain of the goddess in world myth, this is why we use the term mother nature still today. She was omitted from the story. Likewise the identity of Lucifer has been erroneously equated with Satan, when it represented Venus, the first light of the morning, the guiding light that then falls into the underworld only to be reborn yet again. Ashera! Again the goddess is misrepresented / omitted.
You seem certain about that statement, and it would be nice to know why you are so certain.

I gave up Christianity (and with it, the Bible) (without any of the deep explorations that you seem to have done) almost exactly 50 years ago. The problem is, once you abandon one interpretation of a text, it is hard to take another very seriously.

David
 
#66
I don't understand your imaginary worlds and predjudice against teachers helping people who ask for help.
I imagine an unbroken world where we are all teachers and learners... we are both. And in this world I imagine, there's no need for either term for the separation between the two doesn't exist. Even terms like bias, prejudice, etc... all slips away. It is why I took a break from this forum (and others)... because in my world, there's none of this silliness. I will return to my world.
 
#67
I think you refer to 'The testimony of Truth'?
http://gnosis.org/naghamm/testruth.html

Many biblical myths have been distorted until the meaning is lost or inverted, sometimes intentionally I suspect. These other points of view were persecuted, proponents slaughtered, by fire, inquisition by torture and enforced under threat of eternal damnation. One could be excused in thinking there was something to hide or some political leverage to be gained contrary to spiritual matters.

The Eden myth is a good example. The garden was the domain of the goddess in world myth, this is why we use the term mother nature still today. She was omitted from the story. Likewise the identity of Lucifer has been erroneously equated with Satan, when it represented Venus, the first light of the morning, the guiding light that then falls into the underworld only to be reborn yet again. Ashera! Again the goddess is misrepresented / omitted.

Perhaps it makes clear the legend of Saint George and the Dragon, Saint Patrick ridding Ireland of snakes. The Snakes being the Gnostic Celts who bore the tattoo of the serpent on their forearm. These are the myths used to persecute the more ancient symbol of divinity. Despite the attempts at eradication it survived and has had somewhat of a revival even if not fully understood.

I could delve deeply into these and other misrepresentations but it tends to upset some, if I haven't already. So I am treading lightly. :) It is incredibly deep, it stretches back into ancient Egypt and possibly even Atlantis, if we give credit to such stories.

When I wrote 'wisest of beasts' I was referring to the Nag Hammadi actually. The root word 'oph' (Greek) means serpent. The syzygy of the masculine Christos was the feminine Sophia goddess of wisdom. The Ophites venerated the serpent as the symbol of Christ. Remembering what this symbol represents as I previously outlined.

The ideal was to cultivate the Christ within. If you think of the coiled serpent of kundalini awakening we begin to see the common thread of mysticism in the ancient world. Esoteric Christianity begins to share similarities with the yogis and Zen masters. Christ consciousness, kundalini awakening and satori. It is all the same thing.



Well said! The way to Gnosis.



I have often been extremely critical of the Abrahamic religions to the point of upsetting people who I still respect. I am trying not to do that, I don't wish to cause anger regarding anyone's chosen path. I now try to find the good in all ways, mine is the left hand path, all religion and no religion. It is often judged as evil by fundamentalists. It is a contradiction I think when religion evokes intolerance and self righteous division among people. Whatever happened to the Golden rule, all are equal and judge ye not?

In the end if it makes you a better person I am all for it. If not, you are doing it wrong. I think we will all have a good laugh at how silly we are when the curtain closes. So we may as well have a laugh now in friendship and not spite. We need to stop taking things so seriously. We rally behind things that don't really matter and damage the one true thing that only matters.
Such an excellent post... thanks is not enough.
 
#68
I respect your desire not to upset people, but of course, Skeptiko is more about letting the truth hang out. Maybe the best approach would be to start a thread entitles "Caution - alternative interpretation of the Bible" and then fire away!
After my last exploration I have discovered that taking an adversarial approach immediately burns all bridges of communication, I now endeavor to build bridges rather than destroy them. To find common ground is the way forward and to encourage individual thought and insight so one can discover their own truth and not have it dictated as something that is proclaimed. I am a generalist and not a specialist, so this I think allows one to see the common ground and not be blinded in compartmentalization.

However, it would be nice if you started by explaining where your interpretation comes from. For example, you wrote:
You seem certain about that statement, and it would be nice to know why you are so certain.
There are a couple of separate points in that, so I'll start with what I think is the major one that being that Lucifer does not equate to the Satan. It is not ambiguous at all when you understand the circumstance of how this misnomer came to be embedded in modern culture.

Firstly Lucifer is only mentioned once in the bible.

Isaiah 14:12
"How you are fallen from heaven, o Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations!"

Lucifer here refers to king of Babylon. He had fallen because is kingdom had just fallen.

In the original language, Hebrew, Lucifer is never mentioned, In Hebrew it is helel ben shahar meaning the shining one, son of morning. In Hebrew this does not refer to Satan but a planet, the planet Venus, the morning star.

Isaiah is comparing the kings downfall with the movement of the morning star, as it appears to fall from the sky below the horizon into the underworld.

So when the Hebrew was translated to Latin by early Christians they took the word "morning star" and translated it to their own word morning star, "Lucifer." Literally translated as Light bearer or bringer. It is the planet Venus.

Then we have the crossover from the book of Enoch. The book of watchers. You'd all know this as the fallen angels led by Samyaza, who took the women and bred the Nephilim. This has also been erroneously connected with celestial path of the morning star.

I did mix Ashera up in my previous post, (although she is still connected with Venus.) It is the Sumerian Inanna that is linked with the story of
the descent into the underworld as it describes how she is able to fall from heaven, descend into the underworld and then rise again. Just as Venus does. The commonality of the Goddess with Venus is striking. Venus also describes the pattern of the pentagram in the heavens which is the most perfect of symbols inscribing the golden mean ratio inherent in all creation from the macro to the micro.

The mother nature angle is probably the most ancient. If we go way back before recorded time into the age of the fertility cults. You could also search Ashera for the forgotten biblical connection. It is the earth that is the womb of all life. The Sun, the masculine was the great penis in the sky, the storms were the erotic arousal that unleashed the rains, the spermatozoa that seeded the Earth (the womb) with life. For ancient man on the cusp of agriculture this meant life or death. So the ritual practices were to invoke arousal of the God in order to bring life. It should not be surprising since it is the act of sex that delivers consciousness into this realm. This is a very primitive view, but still it encompasses the miracle of life still to this day. It is deeply embedded in us. The Earth, she is alive.



I gave up Christianity (and with it, the Bible) (without any of the deep explorations that you seem to have done) almost exactly 50 years ago. The problem is, once you abandon one interpretation of a text, it is hard to take another very seriously.

David
Understand completely, I had more than given up on it, I despised it, I searched my ancestral roots and found that my Indo-European ancestral culture was basically destroyed by it, as have many other cultures. As I researched I found that the Christianization of Scandinavia may not have been the responsibility of the Catholic Church but was embedded by the Celtic Gnostics with an entirely different interpretation, one that resonated with me profoundly. I soon discovered that the common view of Christianity was not the only one. I found one that was more in line with a more global mythology. It became clear that the institution, which was the cause of the destruction was not the same as the message that is hidden within it. Still I do not count myself as Christian, or even as a gnostic Christian, I do not classify myself as anything. I just try to take what is useful to me as a individual trying to find my place in the universe.

Even my concepts of God have radically changed, I believe that there is only one consciousness, and we are all just pretending that we are not "it" much like the Hindu conception as beautifully elucidated by Alan Watts one of my primary inspirations.

 
#69
After my last exploration I have discovered that taking an adversarial approach immediately burns all bridges of communication, I now endeavor to build bridges rather than destroy them. To find common ground is the way forward and to encourage individual thought and insight so one can discover their own truth and not have it dictated as something that is proclaimed. I am a generalist and not a specialist, so this I think allows one to see the common ground and not be blinded in compartmentalization.
You, LS, take the high road. In my head, this makes sense, within my higher emotions, this makes sense and within my gut, this makes sense.

My handful of previous posts came for my lower emotional level and demonstrate how much "self work" is left to do.

I won't beat that drum further and apologize to all who may be bristled by my words, especially Charlie... though I imagine Charlie's a tough cookie that also knows my respect for him.
 
#70
Have you seen the classic must-see movie Conan the Barbarian?

It shows the power of the Snake Cults.

To be a snake, to think like a snake, to feel like a snake feels is the antithesis of any cult. Cults are always created by herd animals. A snake is not deceptive, it is only itself. A snake does not need to dress itself, as it is created with the perfect wardrobe that never need be changed. The snake is the perfect animal and arguably the pinnacle of creation. Also, snakes are really, really good at Jujitsu. :)
 
#71
Only in the exoteric version and even then there are still references to it's more widespread symbolism other than the inversion of the serpent in the garden. The wisest of beasts.

“Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life."

There are dual motifs for the serpent, one on it's belly being negative and standing being positive.

It is one of the oldest symbols of divinity over multitudes of cultures. The primordial deity. The serpent is the symbol of wisdom, a symbol of fertility, a symbol of the creative life force, rebirth, transformation, divination, immortality and healing.

It is the binding living consciousness, the animating life force, the divine spark, the breath, the (Norse) ond, (Hindu) kundalini, (Greek) aether, (Inuit) Silla, (Polynesian) manna and many other names. It can be felt in higher states of consciousness, it actually facilitates the shift. It can even be seen in higher states of consciousness as a web of iridescent tendrils. Our ancestors were well aware of this, which is why it is found all over the world in ancient traditions.
Amazing! I would like to print this entire post and put it on my wall as a poster!
 
#77
No.. wrong

That Damien Echols makes my skin crawl - I could be wrong tho
Yes Yes... I had already discarded my initial "thought/possibility." (about the possible identity of "Eccles"... based on some reading of other posts of yours). That Echols dude and story is indeed strange. But what is stranger is that, in being as open and honest as I can, I actually obtained all three documentaries and then watched them and the result was that I ended up all but fully convinced he was railroaded.

Then... more dots came into view, in part, via the investigations by Alex. And how odd is it that Johnney Depp became so involved? Anyways. I am now back in the "safe land" of, "I don't know" but also, "I smell a rat... a rat that someone got away with something horrible."
 
#78
I did pretty much the same.
The kid/kids, (I forget), were murdered though - someone done it.
Remember how Echols in court seemed totally disconnected from the proceedings... or above the proceedings - could be a sign of a massive ego trip...
 
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