Conner Habib, Why You Can’t Just the Good and Leave the Bad |467|

[Alex]

Conner Habib, Why You Can’t Just the Good and Leave the Bad |467|
by Alex Tsakiris | Oct 13 | Consciousness Science
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Conner Habib, seeks to untangle the good from the bad in order to find what makes us human.

photo by: Skeptiko
[Clip 00:00:00 – 00:00:20]
That’s a clip from the movie I, Robot. It covers territory that’s pretty well-worn at this point. Will consciousness rise up in the robots and take over the world? But I think there’s a deeper and more relevant and certainly more immediate question that comes to mind with what it means to being human, and it’s explored quite beautifully by today’s guest, Conner Habib.
Conner Habib: [00:00:47] I now use the question rather than what is consciousness, that is important to me, but I think what is the human being is my question that I try to unfurl everything from.
I can’t just do this bullshit thing, which people do all the time, which I find completely objectionable, which is, well, you just take the good and you leave the bad, just move on with the good stuff, because that doesn’t address the foundational thing that you bring up all the time. What I need to do is find out how the good and the bad are entangled and liberate that philosophy from itself.

 

[Kim]

I have been reading a ton of True Crime stories on Medium.com What's becoming all too obvious about too many of the unsolved murders is the way law enforcement suddenly stops looking for new suspects & focuses on just one that later doesn't pan out. Another ploy is they won't pursue DNA testing or release findings that will help identify the kidnapper or killer. The police stop answering questions & evidence is lost, compromised, or claims are made it never existed. This makes it clear that they are protecting one of their own or someone connected w/ power or money. One of the creepiest is two girls, 12 & 14, end up dead & are found on a slope. They took a cell phone image of a man walking toward them, they can be heard talking about someone following them, & then a man clearly says, "Guys, down the hill." But the investigation pays all this attention to the man in the video, there's nothing reported about how they died, unclothed, clothed, etc. & no mention of any concern about who was following them. The murders were in a very small town, so a big deal is made about how small towns protect their own, but why didn't the girls try to run away? The order, down the hill, sounds like a cop & maybe they didn't run because they knew the cop. This happened in broad daylight, so the perpetrators didn't appear to be concerned about being seen.
So, as we are graphically & brutally learning about how law enforcement deals routinely w/ blacks, we can see that "to serve & protect" is a selective process even in white, small town America, & that the evil that all too often accompanies the good must be addressed.
I also love to comment on Medium stories. One that cracked me up was about how finding alien life might effect religion. I plainly stated that people who were religious today really had a lot more to concern themselves w/ than something I considered proven already. I gave them the rough numbers for people who had seen or had personal encounters w/ ET, that the archeological & cultural evidence of an alien presence in the past was undeniable, & that surely the US Navy finally admitting that their tapes of UAPs were not fakes had to wake some people up. What really got me was that Medium buried my response w/ the ones that had been made months or years ago!! Another story theorized that alien life was lacking due to human nature, so I wrote a long response in the form of a story entitled 'What Lack of Alien Life??'

 

[Analise Cross PhD]

I enjoyed this one and wish it could have been longer. I was intrigued by what I would call Connor's recognition of the perpetrator of "a technorcratic control project" as being 1) the spirit world, individuals, or individuals influenced by the spirit world; AND 2) as aligning with definitive evil (and not just hurt people hurting people or confused people or whatever). (Even Rick Archer in a recent interview said that there are spirit actors who can have a preferred alignment for or against "the cosmic purpose").

But I disagreed passionately with Connor's belief that evil usually wants redemption. IMO this belief shows that Connor has never met evil up close and personal.

Thanks to you both for a provocative show!

 

[Kim]

I believe you're on to something there. As Dr. Zinser said, some of the protocols didn't work that were intended to end the influence of the disincarnate on his patients. If they all wanted redemption, then I think they could find it, but how do you miss the way out when it is described as just above the heads of the denizens of Hell? Just as there is that incredibly brilliant Light, like a thousand welding torches all blazing at the same time, then there is a counter weight, a Darkness of the most deep density that can be imagined.

 

[dpdownsouth]

But I disagreed passionately with Connor's belief that evil usually wants redemption. IMO this belief shows that Connor had never met evil up close and personal.

I'd probably agree with you here. Perhaps Conner is talking on a more universal level? On the one hand, I remember a reference to Native American holy people performing ceremonies that were somehow intrinsic to the working of the cosmos. In other words, the ceremonies were necessary for the continuation of existence. It also reminds me very much of the early Christian hermits who performed their ascetism in an effort not just save themselves but also the whole of creation. Some of them specifically mentioned working for the salvation of the demons.

And then there's these snippets from Edwin Muir's Transfiguration Poem:

The source of all our seeing rinsed and cleansed
Till earth and light and water entering there
Gave back to us the clear unfallen world.
................................................................
Reality or vision, this we have seen.
If it had lasted but another moment
It might have held for ever! But the world
Rolled back into its place, and we are here,
And all that radiant kingdom lies forlorn,
As if it had never stirred ...
................................................................
But he will come again, it’s said, though not
Unwanted and unsummoned; for all things,
Beasts of the field, and woods, and rocks, and seas,
And all mankind from end to end of the earth
Will call him with one voice.

https://www.poemhunter.com/poem/the-transfiguration-2/

And I think that ties in to the transcendence thing, too, you get a glimpse of the truth, but it doesn't last, you come back down to earth, hopefully changed. It's like the Zen saying: First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is.

On another note, I love Alex getting triggered by Gordon White's trigger warning. Perhaps Gordon should have prefigured his trigger warning with a trigger warning. Just to be safe, you see?

 

[David Bailey]

I liked this thoughtful discussion a lot.

I really liked Conner's comment early on, that focussing on the consciousness question can come across as cold. Also that focussing on the quantum level probably means very little to most of us. I mean, I like to think I understand the level a bit, but it doesn't alter the fact that it is a huge abstraction removing the discussion ordinary reality. For example, QM has exactly nothing to say about good and evil!

Most of us think that conventional science is definitely wrong at some level, so could it be that it is a mistake to base our ideas about consciousness on science at all?

Because the message from NDE's etc is overwhelmingly positive, I am tempted to say that the world is either fundamentally totally evil, or fundamentally good. The reason for that, is that if the 'good ones' tell us everything is fundamentally OK, they are either telling the truth, or if they are lying, I guess they are evil too.

Conner also crystallised what I think wrong (maybe phoney) about David Icke. Vague talk about consciousness might have been cutting edge 50 years ago, but now it is old hat - he should go deeper than that! If the lizards were important, he can't just lose them! On top of that, what really matters is the conscious life of said lizards - not their shape - so he has focussed on something utterly trivial!

David

 

[Analise Cross PhD]

I'd probably agree with you here. Perhaps Conner is talking on a more universal level? On the one hand, I remember a reference to Native American holy people performing ceremonies that were somehow intrinsic to the working of the cosmos. In other words, the ceremonies were necessary for the continuation of existence. It also reminds me very much of the early Christian hermits who performed their ascetism in an effort not just save themselves but also the whole of creation. Some of them specifically mentioned working for the salvation of the demons.

And then there's these snippets from Edwin Muir's Transfiguration Poem:

The source of all our seeing rinsed and cleansed
Till earth and light and water entering there
Gave back to us the clear unfallen world.
................................................................
Reality or vision, this we have seen.
If it had lasted but another moment
It might have held for ever! But the world
Rolled back into its place, and we are here,
And all that radiant kingdom lies forlorn,
As if it had never stirred ...
................................................................
But he will come again, it’s said, though not
Unwanted and unsummoned; for all things,
Beasts of the field, and woods, and rocks, and seas,
And all mankind from end to end of the earth
Will call him with one voice.

https://www.poemhunter.com/poem/the-transfiguration-2/

And I think that ties in to the transcendence thing, too, you get a glimpse of the truth, but it doesn't last, you come back down to earth, hopefully changed. It's like the Zen thing: First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is.

On another note, I love Alex getting triggered by Gordon White's trigger warning. Perhaps Gordon should have prefigured his trigger warning with a trigger warning. Just to be safe, you see?

I am still convinced that radical evil--demonic, psychopathic etc--does not seek redemption; maybe some of these perps will seek it later through self-examination in the horrendous lower astral realms (see Jurgen Zeiwe, www.mutidimensionalman.com), but maybe some of them have no soul or are beyond redemption either by nature or through their deeds). As for forgiving them, maybe this is for our own good and purification and we hold no expectations about the outcome regarding what or whom. I am still a work in progress in this regard. I live in the US, where there is a barrage of material on the need to forgive from Christianity and segments of the New Age. I am still thinking it through. Maybe one can simultaneously feel forgiving / absolving and maintain wariness etc. as well. (Even remain fearful of the agent(s) of the evil).

I thank you for introducing me to Edwin Muir. I read that he was influenced by another writer (whom I will mine for ideas!)--Herbert Trench's "Requiem of Archangels for the World." The archangels announce that Earth's sleep has come, that trees are dying, streams are stricken dumb, and hearts beat no more. Great wars, just and unjust, sleep; high−shining Kings, simple men, heroes, Gods of men, all sleep.

Absolute, let them be absolved!​

Fount of the time−embranching fire, O waneless One, that art the core Of every heart's unknown desire,​

Take back the hearts that beat nor more!​

​

 

[David Bailey]

but maybe some of them have no soul or are beyond redemption either by nature or through their deeds).

I tend to avoid the use of the word 'soul' because I think it leads to a ton of confusion. I mean my definition of 'soul' would roughly equate to my mind. A being who is literally mindless would just be Alex's biological robot, wouldn't it? I suspect your definition of 'soul' is not quite the same.

What many people such as Jurgen Ziewe say, is that people are in a process of perfection in a long series of lives, and that there is a process of learning how to be good in a world where there is no instant ability to read other's thoughts (I hope that doesn't distort his ideas too much).

This is repeated so much - could it actually be true? If it is, what are we being perfected to do?

David

 

[Analise Cross PhD]

I tend to avoid the use of the word 'soul' because I think it leads to a ton of confusion. I mean my definition of 'soul' would roughly equate to my mind. A being who is literally mindless would just be Alex's biological robot, wouldn't it? I suspect your definition of 'soul' is not quite the same.

What many people such as Jurgen Ziewe say, is that people are in a process of perfection in a long series of lives, and that there is a process of learning how to be good in a world where there is no instant ability to read other's thoughts (I hope that doesn't distort his ideas too much).

This is repeated so much - could it actually be true? If it is, what are we being perfected to do?

David

If we just call the soul the eternal divine essence of a being there is still diagreement, with some sayin demons oriiginally had such an essence but have lost it through their unspeakable deeds. Some say evil humans can lose their soul and at the end of the day be equivalent to demons. As I said, I have no final views as of yet.

 

[David Bailey]

Some say evil humans can lose their soul and at the end of the day be equivalent to demons.

Wouldn't an entity that 'lost its soul' be more akin to a robot? I.e. it wouldn't be evil, it would just be a mechanism.

David

 

[Alex]

And then there's these snippets from Edwin Muir's Transfiguration Poem:

The source of all our seeing rinsed and cleansed
Till earth and light and water entering there
Gave back to us the clear unfallen world.
................................................................
Reality or vision, this we have seen.
If it had lasted but another moment
It might have held for ever! But the world
Rolled back into its place, and we are here,
And all that radiant kingdom lies forlorn,
As if it had never stirred ...
................................................................
But he will come again, it’s said, though not
Unwanted and unsummoned; for all things,
Beasts of the field, and woods, and rocks, and seas,
And all mankind from end to end of the earth
Will call him with one voice.

https://www.poemhunter.com/poem/the-transfiguration-2/

And I think that ties in to the transcendence thing, too, you get a glimpse of the truth, but it doesn't last, you come back down to earth, hopefully changed. It's like the Zen saying: First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is.

beautiful... thx. I agree with yr read of it... and I think yr link back to nature is really interesting.

of course Evil seeks redemption... couldn't be otherwise... at least if you accept the "light/god" idea.

 

[Analise Cross PhD]

beautiful... thx. I agree with yr read of it... and I think yr link back to nature is really interesting.

of course Evil seeks redemption... couldn't be otherwise... at least if you accept the "light/god" idea.

beautiful... thx. I agree with yr read of it... and I think yr link back to nature is really interesting.

of course Evil seeks redemption... couldn't be otherwise... at least if you accept the "light/god" idea.

What's up with these "of course" claims, Alex? IMO evil demons do not seek redemption, even in a montheism (hence the need for theodicy). And ipso facto in a dualistic ontology like Manicheism or Zoroastrianism). And the archons?--Does anyone know their Gnosticism well enough to say if they seek redemption or not??

I am going to post this here even if not totally on topic / hot off the press / Oct. 20/2020

 

[David Bailey]

I should mention that views expressed below are what i consider to be my scientific and conscious learnings and not a matter of religion

I didn't see much appeal to science in regard to homosexuality in your post.

If you click the edit button (bottom left) of your post, you can correct your post, you don't need to issue a series of corrections.

I hope you are here for other reasons than your strong dislike of gay sex. I am a completely heterosexual male, so I don't have an axe to grind here, but almost because I would run a mile from a sexual interaction with a man, I realise that others are different, and this is almost certainly not under their control. You might find this research intriguing:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/homophobes-might-be-hidden-homosexuals/

If you have wider reasons to be here, I hope you will move on to those subjects soon. This is not a forum on which you can spew views like this, even though we are pretty non-PC here. For one thing, it can bloody boring pretty fast!

David

 

[Alex]

Hi Have been watching Skeptiko stuff and tho may not agree some of the theories I think it is a great platform of discussion and what I like about Alex is that he likes to get the info or disinfo out there so that it can be analysed, debated etc

I should mention that views expressed below are what i consider to be my scientific and conscious learnings and not a matter of religion

I can see from a few small comments made on a few different shows that maybe Alex is finding it a little difficult to put this one out for debate as many people seem to have formed very rigid conclusions about a certain area of concern and any mention of the subject is a no no. Yes it's about the gay thing. I think the best way is that i'm quite blunt in how i try and assess the situation. Anyone reading please be aware there is humour in the bluntness and primarily be aware that in my lifetime some the people i have known and know who consider themselves gay are some of my best friends. I always tell them shortly after becoming aware of what they are up to that i dont think it is healthy and being a friend i wouldnt want encourage them to do things that aren't healthy. So i say it once and thats that. It's not for me to comment continuously on peoples issues as like all people i have my own issues. Those with gay issues know as well that they if i ever saw any gay behaviour in front of me like blokes getting off with each other it would turn my stomach and i would have to leave. This has happened to me on 1-2 occassions and it takes me about 2 days to settle my stomach. The sight of dressed up tranvestites makes me feel ill too. Am just being honest

Anyway time for the blunt lowdown:

Men getting turned on by other men is an imbalance in ones being

Any man who is not put off at the sight of gays copulating or thinks that blokes humping each other is ok is also in a form of gay. Period

Anal sex is extremely unhealthy even between a man and woman and is the cause of AIDS (plenty of evidence to back that up and also the view of the man who invented the blood AIDS test from what i read from a very reputable source). The glands or something get damaged inside the anus and the nervous system isnt able to deliver messages around the bodysystem. There are drugs now that suppress and stop AIDS transmission. Let's hope people remember to take their meds before going to party

In many a case the symptom of men being gay is a sign that they are actually evolving. Sorting ones head out also coincides with finding ones legs and feet, which isn't easy. There are many pitfalls along the way, one of them being fucked in the ass lol

I didn't want to bring this up but i feel compelled to as it highlights a factor of anal penetration. Anyway lets just say that one night i was really drunk and jerking off. To my defence i was thinking about women the whole time but i ended up sticking my finger in my ass. I cant lie that in my warped state it kind of felt great and i thought that i'de have to find a woman with a dildo some day. The next day though i could really feel that i'de something unhealthy (that was a couple of years ago and it has never happened since) and that the anal area having being damaged was causing certain physical unhealthy symtoms in my body and head which i recognised in people that i knew. What always stuck out to me was the contrast in how i felt at the time of doing it which seemed great, to the obvious physical degredation symptoms that i was aware of after and see widely in others. I think it must be the case that for whatever reasons people aren't aware of the symptoms as there body/mind is kind of traumatised. Turning into a weak little porky or raging pufta will get us nowhere and though people have the right to make mistakes it shouldnt be encouraged. At best it is a phase like other issues that people go through and learn from their mistakes

Not much space for lesbianism either. Women are biologically different though and i believe they get a little leaway in their playfullness and emotional friendships. Definately no ass fucking tho or entry into the anus as that will not do anyone any good

Nature being crafty with the pitfalls turns out that non-penetration around the anus can actually be quite an errogenous zone. Go figure. You'de want to wash it before going near it. Men should be nowhere near each other sexually though in any way whatsoever. If it happens it should be seen as a form of self-harm and try and get over it

Regardless of peoples opinion as to whether gay habits are healthy or not, anyone who cant see there is coercive agenda in the media and film companies to push a gay/trans agenda, is an idiot and needs to pull their finger out

Here's another subject to throw on the table. No humor regarding this subject. I remember being a teenager and assuming without really thinking that abortion was a form contraception. I can understand how people make mistakes as they form rigid assumptions as to the nature of reality and act upon that without bad intention

Firstly based on our current technology a baby's heartbeat is detected around 10 days old in the womb, though almost surely formed before

Babies born many months premature very often live

Obviously once a baby is born to kill it would be a capital crime even if the parent(s) hadnt planned on having a baby or were finding it hard. The most the law or any sense of decency would allow for would be to give he/her up for adoption or leave he/her somewhere for someone to find. Nobody can say with any surety (even pro-abortion doctors) that the baby feels no pain when it is sitting in it's mothers womb (not to mention every individuals right to life), so how in any seriousness if someone was to actually think about what they were doing and at most be unsure of what an unborn baby feels or doesnt, could they even risk it, the stakes being as high as they are. People don't think though and act on what they believe they have concluded on, particularly if other people are saying the same thing

Have heard Alex say a few times and is something i've picked up in my life, that being that the danger is not so much what you don't know but what you think you know and act upon, that is different in reality

Later





what I've been wondering lately is how the "gay thing" ever became a thing? if I go to a party with my wife and meet new people I don't generally worry about what kind of sexual acts they choose to engage in. but I somehow I accept that I've been told it's ok to worry about those people who are waving those multicolored flags are doing or not doing in their private lives. where did we ever get the idea that's anyone's business?

it seems like 90% of all the crazy pseudo progressive pseudo woke social divisiveness around sexuality is reactionary... it's a push back against this crazy christian know-it-all b******* about human sexuality

 

[Analise Cross PhD]

Jurgen Ziewe, fascinating

 

[Alex]

Also where you say 'how the gay thing ever became a thing' i gather you dont apply that same thought frame to other subjects eg. the ufo thing. Some people would say most of it is mental phenomena and others would say it's actual aliens. To say that the subject is nobody's business and shouldn't be talked about does not further understanding whatever the truth of the matter may be.

I'm not sure I understand your comparison. I mean, I don't think anyone questions whether or not there's a reality to gay sex... on the other hand, a lot of people, including people who pretend to have some official credibility, deny the reality of UFOs.