Conspiracy Theories

I find it funny that skeptics are skeptical about PSI, TK, Remote viewing etc. Fine, so why not just practice and document these phenomenas? Wasting your time? Well cut of this message board and the endless debates and go practice, what are you scared of?
 
I love this paragraph! And I totally agree with most of what you are saying, Hurmanetar. I think the frustrating thing (for me) is that the "new establishment" provided in part by the internet has already been intentionally infiltrated and to some extent co-opted, and all of us who are reeling from the loss of the old establishment are struggling to find a new establishment of "agreed to facts in order to stand on something." We know that the official story is most often either incomplete or largely false, but we can't get to the "real" story either, because even the alternative sources are all over the place as to what happened.

So you have an event like Sandy Hook, for example, where you know the official story isn't quite adding up, but when you try to find alternative sources to tell you the "facts," you'll soon find yourself wading into the muck of inconsistent and bizzaro-sounding alternative theories, with some alternative sources claiming that "it was a black-op operation" where real children were killed (but by different perps), to "it was a complete drill" where no children were killed and everyone was a crisis actor, to "the entire town of Sandy Hook is a Satanic strong hold" and on and on...

It becomes so convoluted and so unhinged from what you might be open to considering a reasonable alternative theory that you just end up not caring anymore. And then you just start bypassing everyone who insists they know the real story and who posts some doofy, bad background music YouTube video by someone with a clear political bias or agenda. And yet, sometimes the YT videos are actually quite informative, and one of the only ways to get alternative information out there since the MSM isn't going to publish the info. It's depressing.

I know this is intentional and part of the SOP of the false flag/propaganda agenda, but as you say, most of us don't have the time or ability to master enough knowledge about everything or gain the information necessary to confirm every "conspiracy theory." There really needs to be more sources that pass the objective, unbiased, well-researched, and well-written smell test before a "new establishment" can take root.
I think you and I are roughly in the same place. One thing is for sure, most of what we think we know, likely isn't true, as far as most mainstream narratives are concerned.

It's the finding of a firm footing after your worldview is blown to pieces that's the trouble. There's a lot a charlatans, opportunists, controlled opposition (that's a hard one, it's so easy to see it everywhere while knowing it's just not possible that EVERYONE is a shill) and yes, plain old crazies.

Truth becomes murky to say the least. It's funny; the more I search for truth, the more I find myself in exactly the same spot: clueless!

Complicating issues is, I think I might be an empath. I am most definitely HSP, but possibly also an empath. Like most things, it's got it's good points and it's bad points. The good is that I can easily understand varying, even conflicting points of view. It's almost second nature for me to be able to put myself in someone else's shoes and understand their perspective. The down side is, I can easily understand varying points of view and almost blend myself seamlessly with others. So, what is a blessing is also a curse. It makes it very easy to lose yourself in ideas or others identities.

Consequently, I think I developed an almost overly rational approach, too often dismissing the emotional side.

Over the years, I've learned to put up healthy boundaries, but it's still difficult. I've also found that sometimes, when I'm struggling with confusion and getting lost in the chaos that is our culture nowadays, centering myself, clearing my mind and allowing that small inner voice that is all too often silenced to have its say often brings me to a place of peace and a certain level of understanding.

I can't say I know just what in the hell is going on in this crazy world (and getting crazier, it seems) but I can find my center when I need to, and it keeps me sane...mostly ;).

Much has been said lately of secret Satanists or Luciferians, hell, there's even debate as to whether there's a real difference between the two. Most people dismiss it. I did for a very long time. I still am not sure that "Satanists rule the world". But the more time I spent paying attention (and cutting oneself off from the majority of media is crucial for this, you cannot see what you are immersed in) the more it just all jumps out at you.

I remember when invoking Satan and being all dark and weird was for performers like Alice Cooper. These over-the-top shows that we're meant to shock and entertain but in a fake way. It was almost comical. Now? You have mainstream pop stars like Justin Bieber, Jay Z, Kanye, Kisha (sp?), The Weeknd and Panic at the Disco all using this same imagery, blatantly posting symbols, invoking Satan in their songs, and using imagery on stage. I mean, it's blatant. You really can't deny that. You can debate what it all means. But you cannot deny it's there.



I'll out myself here, but decades ago when I was in high school, such things in the mainstream would have been looked upon with derision and horror and likely rejected. Again, it was some weird thing the weird kids were into.

Just watch the music videos, I find them quite shocking. Even my husband, who grew up listening to Slayer, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Pantera, etc. was floored by what he saw. In his words "this makes Slayer look like kid games". I was a big Nine Inch Nails fan myself (never got into the goth thing, just liked the music) and what I see today makes Reznor look like Pollyanna.

So, something is going on. Exactly what? I don't know.
 
I think you and I are roughly in the same place. One thing is for sure, most of what we think we know, likely isn't true, as far as most mainstream narratives are concerned.

It's the finding of a firm footing after your worldview is blown to pieces that's the trouble. There's a lot a charlatans, opportunists, controlled opposition (that's a hard one, it's so easy to see it everywhere while knowing it's just not possible that EVERYONE is a shill) and yes, plain old crazies.

Truth becomes murky to say the least. It's funny; the more I search for truth, the more I find myself in exactly the same spot: clueless!

Complicating issues is, I think I might be an empath. I am most definitely HSP, but possibly also an empath. Like most things, it's got it's good points and it's bad points. The good is that I can easily understand varying, even conflicting points of view. It's almost second nature for me to be able to put myself in someone else's shoes and understand their perspective. The down side is, I can easily understand varying points of view and almost blend myself seamlessly with others. So, what is a blessing is also a curse. It makes it very easy to lose yourself in ideas or others identities.

Consequently, I think I developed an almost overly rational approach, too often dismissing the emotional side.

Over the years, I've learned to put up healthy boundaries, but it's still difficult. I've also found that sometimes, when I'm struggling with confusion and getting lost in the chaos that is our culture nowadays, centering myself, clearing my mind and allowing that small inner voice that is all too often silenced to have its say often brings me to a place of peace and a certain level of understanding.

I can't say I know just what in the hell is going on in this crazy world (and getting crazier, it seems) but I can find my center when I need to, and it keeps me sane...mostly ;).

Much has been said lately of secret Satanists or Luciferians, hell, there's even debate as to whether there's a real difference between the two. Most people dismiss it. I did for a very long time. I still am not sure that "Satanists rule the world". But the more time I spent paying attention (and cutting oneself off from the majority of media is crucial for this, you cannot see what you are immersed in) the more it just all jumps out at you.

I remember when invoking Satan and being all dark and weird was for performers like Alice Cooper. These over-the-top shows that we're meant to shock and entertain but in a fake way. It was almost comical. Now? You have mainstream pop stars like Justin Bieber, Jay Z, Kanye, Kisha (sp?), The Weeknd and Panic at the Disco all using this same imagery, blatantly posting symbols, invoking Satan in their songs, and using imagery on stage. I mean, it's blatant. You really can't deny that. You can debate what it all means. But you cannot deny it's there.



I'll out myself here, but decades ago when I was in high school, such things in the mainstream would have been looked upon with derision and horror and likely rejected. Again, it was some weird thing the weird kids were into.

Just watch the music videos, I find them quite shocking. Even my husband, who grew up listening to Slayer, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Pantera, etc. was floored by what he saw. In his words "this makes Slayer look like kid games". I was a big Nine Inch Nails fan myself (never got into the goth thing, just liked the music) and what I see today makes Reznor look like Pollyanna.

So, something is going on. Exactly what? I don't know.
Have you read Dave McGowan's Weird Scenes From The Canyon? I'd be curious what you thought . . . And it's really, really interesting stuff.
 
Even before I stumbled upon 9/11 Truth (in 2013, very late to the party),
Better late than never! :) It helped me that my Dad is a bit of a conspiracy theorist and sent me an article around 2004 or 2005 from Stephen Jones that was something like "10 reasons why a physicist questions 9/11". I was an engineering student at the time, and I loved physics. I was also an ignorant Bush supporter and I just thought the "conspiracy theory" probably came from some raving liberal Bush hater, but the points made by the Physicist were undeniably good and piqued my interest.

it always struck me as very odd that this event occurred on 9/11, the number we all associate with "emergency" or "help." It just seemed very strange. Did radical Muslims living in caves in Afghanistan really understand our American association with 911 and how picking this particular day would really mess with our collective psyches? It was an inverse of what we had previously associated those numbers with....
Yes. Also interesting that the same year (1968) the federal government decided to make 911 the official nationwide emergency number was the same year that construction began on the first of the twin towers.

Also interesting is that the architect who designed the twin towers had previously worked in Saudi Arabia with Osama bin Laden's family's steel-frame high rise construction company and he was inspired by Mecca in his design:
This has probably been covered elsewhere, but its new to me...

Google's doodle of the day is about the structural engineer who came up with the tubular high rise design which was a great leap forward in efficient use of material and structural rigidity.

I skimmed a few articles to see if any articles mentioned that the twin towers utilized strong and sound design... didn't find it mentioned.

But I did come across some interesting info in the wiki articles:
"Yamasaki, who had previously designed Saudi Arabia's Dhahran International Airport with the Saudi Binladin Group, incorporated features of Arabic architecture into the design of the World Trade Center. The plaza was modelled after Mecca, incorporating features such as a vast delineated square, a fountain, and a radial circular pattern. Yamasaki described the plaza as "a mecca, a great relief from the narrow streets and sidewalks of the Wall Street area."[39] He also incorporated other features of Arabic architecture into the building design, including pointed arches, interweaving tracery of prefabricated concrete, a minaret like flight tower, and arabesque patterns.[40]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construction_of_the_World_Trade_Center

"On 11 September 2015, while doing construction work in the Grand Mosque in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, one of the Group's cranes collapsed due to high winds causing 118 deaths and almost 400 injuries. "
"The registration for SBG's Internet domain name, saudi-binladin-group.com, was registered on September 11, 2000, for one year, expiring on the same day as the September 11, 2001 attacks. The domain was later acquired by a domain speculator.[7][8]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Binladin_Group
Now, of course, I am willing to entertain the possibility that it wasn't just a military/intelligence services false flag with the goal of ushering in the Patriot Act and continuing profitable wars of aggression in the Middle East. That, too, of course, but there seems, possibly, to be far more. I'll quote the "Synchromystic blogger" Mark LeClair (as quoted in SK Bain's book) here:

"Any open minded meditation upon September 11, 2001 floods the mind with at first incomprehensible riddles. The brave seek answers and begin to connect the dots. A shape begins to appear. The seeker can stop with a complete hypothesis: evil men, shadow men, bankers and oilmen, a secret one-world power. Some seekers go deeper into the woods: Satanic Goofball Cultists and their midnight rituals. Nazi connections. The Fourth Reich steps out from behind the American Flag. Not satisfied, a few scrabble onward: an at least rudimentary knowledge of Occult Technology is a must have. Occult science is that of metaphor and the big truth of 9/11 is that it is a Hierophantic event, planned for two-thousand years by the priests of On and Tibet and altogether inevitable. Beyond this third degree, aspirants court the Abyss itself, gaze into the yawning yaw of Yah-Weh and cry out: More Light!"
;;/? good quote. :)

Crazy, right? How the heck did I get here? I'm really rather normal. And yet... it kind of makes sense if you consider the Gnostic world view. SK Bain's book suggests that, in addition to the obvious hegemonic goals, 9/11 was a mass sacrificial ritual with various other occult goals/intentions, using dark "magick" to cause ripples in the fabric of our manifested reality to usher in a "dark" age. He also suggests that 9/11 was also paying homage to Aleister Crowley, who stated that: "Magick is the science and art of causing change to occur in conformity with will."

But assuming Bain's theory has any basis in fact -- i.e. that there really were/are high level occult practitioners who included this additional layer to the 9/11 operation, is Majck real? Can simply using the "numbers" of (dark) magick during certain astrological alignments create real effects? Why? Or, really, is all of this just another aspect of a highly sophisticated psy-op that uses occult mumbo jumbo to scare/traumatize the masses and set off certain conspiracy-leaning persons?

I don't have any answers, but I guess I'm trying to go deeper into these particular woods at the moment. I'd love to toss this around a bit, but maybe it makes sense to take this conversation private with other members who have already crossed the 9/11 Truth Abyss and who are open to exploring this aspect of our strange strange world.
Well I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on the subject. The 9/11 thread is a 101 pages strong and still going!
http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/9-11-discussion-thread.1443/page-101

Have you seen this?
Case of coincidence and parallelomania, or synchronicity, or foreknowledge?
 
It was an inverse of what we had previously associated those numbers with....
Yes. This seems to be the rule for 2017. Everything seems inverted, or at least the inversion is being pushed.

I really do think there is something to it all. But hey, that would make me one of those crazy conspiracy nutters.

Now where did I put my hat......
 
Better late than never! :) It helped me that my Dad is a bit of a conspiracy theorist and sent me an article around 2004 or 2005 from Stephen Jones that was something like "10 reasons why a physicist questions 9/11". I was an engineering student at the time, and I loved physics. I was also an ignorant Bush supporter and I just thought the "conspiracy theory" probably came from some raving liberal Bush hater, but the points made by the Physicist were undeniably good and piqued my interest.



Yes. Also interesting that the same year (1968) the federal government decided to make 911 the official nationwide emergency number was the same year that construction began on the first of the twin towers.

Also interesting is that the architect who designed the twin towers had previously worked in Saudi Arabia with Osama bin Laden's family's steel-frame high rise construction company and he was inspired by Mecca in his design:




;;/? good quote. :)



Well I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on the subject. The 9/11 thread is a 101 pages strong and still going!
http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/9-11-discussion-thread.1443/page-101

Have you seen this?
Case of coincidence and parallelomania, or synchronicity, or foreknowledge?
Wow, lots of stuff I didn't know. It just gets weirder and weirder. For me, 9-11 is case closed. Not necessarily the "who done it?", but that the official narrative is 1000% unadulterated bullshit.
 
Well I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on the subject. The 9/11 thread is a 101 pages strong and still going!
.

I saw the 9/11 thread after I started posting here, but it looked a little intimidating -- it's always so hard to try to jump in right at the end of a long thread when the conversation has been going on for so long! I also try to read a thread from the original post, which sometimes makes me put off reading longer threads on forums until I have the time -- I know it's going to take me days just to get through it all!

But I also believe the 9/11 official narrative is "1,000% bullshit" -- and it seems like threads like that tend to be more wheel spinning between those who have crossed the Abyss and those who haven't. I do think there's the possibility of reaching someone who hasn't crossed, or who (like me until 2013), still has no idea there's any problem with the official story at all, but once exposed, might want to check it out....but in general, I see it as an exercise in frustration. Plus, I'm ready to move on to the weirder occult aspects of it.

Yes, I was aware of the Back to the Future stuff -- and of course Neo's driver's license in the Matrix -- weird stuff indeed -- and then there's all this other high strangeness:

1. The significance of the September 11th date -- which, oddly, was: (1) the date that ground first broke on the construction of the Pentagon exactly sixty years prior (September 11, 1941); (2) the birthday of Ted Olsen, the solicitor general for Bush (September 11, 1940), whose own wife Barbara supposedly made the very first phone call from one of the "hijacked" flights and informed us all about the Muslim terrorists with boxcutters.....(yet, as Reece explains above, these calls from Barbara to Ted actually NEVER happened, according to the FBI, so who told this narrative? And who received it?); and (3) the date that George H.W. Bush addressed a joint session of Congress and made his infamous "new world order" speech regarding an entire reset of nations/geographical powers/etc. (September 11, 1990). All things that should make you go "Hmmmm," if true.

2. The strange number syncs: AA Flight 77 hit the Pentagon, which sits on the 77th Meridian West and is exactly 77 feet tall. The E4-B "doomsday" plane that was suspiciously flying around the Pentagon before/after it was hit's call sign was VENUS77. The "hijacked" flight numbers (11, 77, 93, 175) have deep occult significance, and eerily match up to the actual floors "hit" at the WTC -- i.e., Flight 11 hit the North Tower directly above floor 93, Flight 175 hit the South Tower directly above floor 77... can this all be just weird meaningless syncs/coincidences? Perhaps.

With respect to the design/construction of the Towers, I didn't know that Saudi Bin Laden designer connection part --so thank you for that interesting piece. SK Bain's book argues that the Towers had been designed and constructed from the very beginning to be destroyed as part of a very significant dark occult ritual. He points to their likeness to the Boaz/Jaquin columns of Masonry, the tridents on the entire exterior (representing Satan/Saturn), the connection to King Solomon's temple (WTC7 was known as the Salomon Brothers building), and the astrological alignment (on 9/11, Saturn was in Gemini, represented as the Twins).
Maybe this really is someone stretching for meaning where there is none, but I am now starting to think that there's something there there. As Vault says, there's just so much weird symbolism/Satanic stuff in our faces now. And wouldn't the way to achieve these dark magick goals without "normal" people taking it all too seriously be to make it appear both really out there and so in-your-face that it's dismissed as being the stuff of crazy conspiracy theorists, religious fundamentalists, or dumb artists just trying to be cool?

My struggle with all of this is that I stopped "believing" in God a long time ago -- or at least a personal God who cares about any of us in an individual way. And likewise, I just never "believed" in Satan/demons, etc. I wouldn't have called myself an atheist, but probably more of a dubious agnostic. But now that I'm butting up against all this high weirdness, and exploring the possibilities of magick, altered states, non-materialist consciousness, I realize that I am utterly clueless about the true nature of our reality. All this dark stuff seems to be legitimately happening, so now I'm left to wonder whether this is all just a giant 1984 psy-op, or whether "they" know something about the nature of this reality and this world that "we" don't? "Magick" seems to be the key. I'm trying to find out if it actually exists and how far each individual can go with it.
 
I saw the 9/11 thread after I started posting here, but it looked a little intimidating -- it's always so hard to try to jump in right at the end of a long thread when the conversation has been going on for so long! I also try to read a thread from the original post, which sometimes makes me put off reading longer threads on forums until I have the time -- I know it's going to take me days just to get through it all!
I understand... the 9/11 thread was already long when I jumped into it a few years ago! At this point a lot of those members in the early discussion of 9/11 are no longer around.

But I also believe the 9/11 official narrative is "1,000% bullshit" -- and it seems like threads like that tend to be more wheel spinning between those who have crossed the Abyss and those who haven't. I do think there's the possibility of reaching someone who hasn't crossed, or who (like me until 2013), still has no idea there's any problem with the official story at all, but once exposed, might want to check it out....but in general, I see it as an exercise in frustration. Plus, I'm ready to move on to the weirder occult aspects of it.

Yes, I was aware of the Back to the Future stuff -- and of course Neo's driver's license in the Matrix -- weird stuff indeed -- and then there's all this other high strangeness:

1. The significance of the September 11th date -- which, oddly, was: (1) the date that ground first broke on the construction of the Pentagon exactly sixty years prior (September 11, 1941); (2) the birthday of Ted Olsen, the solicitor general for Bush (September 11, 1940), whose own wife Barbara supposedly made the very first phone call from one of the "hijacked" flights and informed us all about the Muslim terrorists with boxcutters.....(yet, as Reece explains above, these calls from Barbara to Ted actually NEVER happened, according to the FBI, so who told this narrative? And who received it?); and (3) the date that George H.W. Bush addressed a joint session of Congress and made his infamous "new world order" speech regarding an entire reset of nations/geographical powers/etc. (September 11, 1990). All things that should make you go "Hmmmm," if true.

2. The strange number syncs: AA Flight 77 hit the Pentagon, which sits on the 77th Meridian West and is exactly 77 feet tall. The E4-B "doomsday" plane that was suspiciously flying around the Pentagon before/after it was hit's call sign was VENUS77. The "hijacked" flight numbers (11, 77, 93, 175) have deep occult significance, and eerily match up to the actual floors "hit" at the WTC -- i.e., Flight 11 hit the North Tower directly above floor 93, Flight 175 hit the South Tower directly above floor 77... can this all be just weird meaningless syncs/coincidences? Perhaps.

With respect to the design/construction of the Towers, I didn't know that Saudi Bin Laden designer connection part --so thank you for that interesting piece. SK Bain's book argues that the Towers had been designed and constructed from the very beginning to be destroyed as part of a very significant dark occult ritual. He points to their likeness to the Boaz/Jaquin columns of Masonry, the tridents on the entire exterior (representing Satan/Saturn), the connection to King Solomon's temple (WTC7 was known as the Salomon Brothers building), and the astrological alignment (on 9/11, Saturn was in Gemini, represented as the Twins).
Maybe this really is someone stretching for meaning where there is none, but I am now starting to think that there's something there there. As Vault says, there's just so much weird symbolism/Satanic stuff in our faces now. And wouldn't the way to achieve these dark magick goals without "normal" people taking it all too seriously be to make it appear both really out there and so in-your-face that it's dismissed as being the stuff of crazy conspiracy theorists, religious fundamentalists, or dumb artists just trying to be cool?

My struggle with all of this is that I stopped "believing" in God a long time ago -- or at least a personal God who cares about any of us in an individual way. And likewise, I just never "believed" in Satan/demons, etc. I wouldn't have called myself an atheist, but probably more of a dubious agnostic. But now that I'm butting up against all this high weirdness, and exploring the possibilities of magick, altered states, non-materialist consciousness, I realize that I am utterly clueless about the true nature of our reality. All this dark stuff seems to be legitimately happening, so now I'm left to wonder whether this is all just a giant 1984 psy-op, or whether "they" know something about the nature of this reality and this world that "we" don't? "Magick" seems to be the key. I'm trying to find out if it actually exists and how far each individual can go with it.
Have you read "The Trickster and the Paranormal" by George P. Hansen? I consider it a must read for anyone open minded about the paranormal. That book changed my life! :)

One thing gleaned from it is that the trickster sometimes "shows up" when one is involved in a trickster type of activity. e.g. A stage magician performing sleight of hand tricks might actually encounter "real magic" in the process.

So if that principle is true - that trickster type activities and periods of change and liminality draw in synchronicity and Psi and possibly trickster entities - then it might be impossible from where we sit to figure out how many of the coincidences around 9/11 are instances of planned symbolism and how many simply showed up to the magic show.

I also think the same could apply to the UFO phenomenon. It is entirely possible that deep state planners thought that employing tricks to seed the idea of alien life and alien invasion would enable humanity to unify globally and avoid self-destruction. The trickster phenomenon might have been drawn in so that they lost total control of the UFO and alien abduction tricks. There seems to be some evidence of this in crop circle formations as well.
 
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My struggle with all of this is that I stopped "believing" in God a long time ago -- or at least a personal God who cares about any of us in an individual way. And likewise, I just never "believed" in Satan/demons, etc. I wouldn't have called myself an atheist, but probably more of a dubious agnostic. But now that I'm butting up against all this high weirdness, and exploring the possibilities of magick, altered states, non-materialist consciousness, I realize that I am utterly clueless about the true nature of our reality. All this dark stuff seems to be legitimately happening, so now I'm left to wonder whether this is all just a giant 1984 psy-op, or whether "they" know something about the nature of this reality and this world that "we" don't? "Magick" seems to be the key. I'm trying to find out if it actually exists and how far each individual can go with it.
You know, it's a weird thing: talk to me 10, 15 years ago and you would be having a conversation with a rabid anti-religionist. I didn't just consider myself atheist, I HATED religion. I thought it only brought out the worst in people and society.

Now, I consider myself agnostic. Perhaps I am a theist without a structured belief system, but I still doubt at times. It's hard not to get caught up in the "if God exists, why is this world so difficult/evil? Why is there so much suffering? Why do the good and the innocent always seem to bear the greatest burdens?" I still do not have any good answers to these kinds of questions. Some days I feel like I've figured it out, the next day I feel entirely clueless.

I suppose this is what it means to dance on the edge of the abyss. Your worldview has been turn out from under you. You live in an increasingly secular society whose foundation was built on the concept of a God or Creator that grants people certain unalienable rights. What is it built on then, what is the foundation, if this is no longer true?

It leaves us struggle to find or build a foundation on which to build our lives. But modern society certainly doesn't make that easy, especially if you find the mantra of "he who dies with the most toys wins" to be empty and unsatisfying.

But I find myself increasingly more open to religion. Looking into the Pizzagate stuff has probably been one of the bigger reasons why. Even if you don't buy into the theory, which I will admit there is little to no concrete evidence. However, what it has accomplished is opening the door, starting the conversation on a much larger scale about just how wide spread the problem of pedophilia, human trafficking and even ritualistic abuse really is. So much larger, so much more wide spread than I ever dared to imagine. It's heartbreaking and shatters everything you thought you knew. It's so incredibly dark that everyone I've talked to online or who has looked into says they can only handle it for so long and have to take time away from all of it. It's like staring into the abyss. Sometimes it's imperative for your own self to look away for a while.

I was watching a UFO documentary recently where MUFON researcher Joe Jordan says that he came to believe that alien abductions were actually the work of demons. Now, maybe he's delusional, maybe he realized there's more money to be made in the Christian community, I don't know. Maybe he's legit. But it was an alternative I hadn't considered. TBH, the whole UFO/alien thing as never really piqued my interest. But the fact that he was a new ager, who didn't believe in the Bible or Christianity, turned Christian due to his research into the UFO phenomenon was interesting to me.

Another researcher, Chris Knowles, who writes about Satanism, Occult symbolism in pop culture, etc. Has often stated that he too has to take a break from it at times because it gets so dark.

My point is, dancing close to that edge of chaos, staring into the abyss does have a way of consuming you. I find interesting that it seems almost imperative that one must take time away from looking into these things. I also find it interesting that for me, as I've heard others state, it turns me toward religion. Almost like an instinctive move to protect oneself.

I don't know. Lots of questions, and lots of answers. But which answers are correct?
 
I understand... the 9/11 thread was already long when I jumped into it a few years ago! At this point a lot of those members in the early discussion of 9/11 are no longer around.



Have you read "The Trickster and the Paranornal" by George P. Hansen? I consider it a must read for anyone open minded about the paranormal. That book changed my life! :)

One thing gleaned from it is that the trickster sometimes "shows up" when one is involved in a trickster type of activity. e.g. A stage magician performing sleight of hand tricks might actually encounter "real magic" in the process.

So if that principle is true - that trickster type activities and periods of change and liminality draw in synchronicity and Psi and possibly trickster entities - then it might be impossible from where we sit to figure out how many of the coincidences around 9/11 are instances of planned symbolism and how many simply showed up to the magic show.

I also think the same could apply to the UFO phenomenon. It is entirely possible that deep state planners thought that employing tricks to seed the idea of alien life and alien invasion would enable humanity to unify globally and avoid self-destruction. The trickster phenomenon might have been drawn in so that they lost total control of the UFO and alien abduction tricks. There seems to be some evidence of this in crop circle formations as well.
Ha! Regarding the trickster element, or what the youngun's these days call Kek (interesting in and of itself really), is how much this seems to have really come to the fore in the past year or so.

I had my own synchronicity just last night. I was explaining to my husband Dr. Peterson's concept of the representation of the serpent in the Garden of Eden. I then randomly clicked on a YouTube video about the shenanigans at Sarah Lawrence University, where a Twitter/Facebook campaign had been started to give random female college students money for "emotional labor". It was a ridiculous situation, but that isn't what was interesting. What was interesting, is that one of the women at the center of this controversy had a pet baby python which she "set free in a panic" so it was roaming about on campus. Around that time there was also a controversy about a tree on campus that, I think, students were upset about the possibility of the tree being removed. One student posted on social media that they were upset about the fact more students cared about the snake and the tree than discrimination against Muslim students.

Maybe it's me overreaching, but I had just been talking about the serpent in the garden of Eden when this came up. I laughed to myself and thought "top Kek!". Women, tree, serpent, chaos. I had to wonder if anyone else picked up on the symbolism there. But seemingly coincidental, random symbology. It really made me think of the trickster at work. Almost like it's asking you "are you paying attention?".
 
But I find myself increasingly more open to religion. Looking into the Pizzagate stuff has probably been one of the bigger reasons why. Even if you don't buy into the theory, which I will admit there is little to no concrete evidence. However, what it has accomplished is opening the door, starting the conversation on a much larger scale about just how wide spread the problem of pedophilia, human trafficking and even ritualistic abuse really is. So much larger, so much more wide spread than I ever dared to imagine. It's heartbreaking and shatters everything you thought you knew. It's so incredibly dark that everyone I've talked to online or who has looked into says they can only handle it for so long and have to take time away from all of it. It's like staring into the abyss. Sometimes it's imperative for your own self to look away for a while.
I spent weeks of my life going down that deeply disturbing Pizzagate rabbit hole, and I have come to the conclusion that it is most likely based in truth, despite the backtracking and strange unraveling of some of the alternative media personalities who initially reported/supported it. The way the NYT and WaPo dismissed it out of hand without actually discussing any of the disturbing circumstantial evidence (e.g., the strange coded emails, the creepy pedo/cannibalistic artwork of the Podestas, the instagram messages, Abramovic's spirit cooking, the weird concerts at CPP where pedophilia and child torture were apparently crowd favorites, etc.) was the first big clue that there was something very threatening to them there. IMO, whenever the elites start circling the wagons and using the power of the controlled press to manipulate or reroute a narrative, you can be sure that the real story is anything but the one they are selling.

But unfortunately, most "normal" people were happy to be reassured that the whole thing was a ridiculous defamatory hoax -- one only believed by the nutters. It's not that surprising to me by now -- this weird rejection of anything that causes anyone to question their reality bubbles. Most people like to be reassured that the world isn't a deeply disturbing place, with psychopathic leaders engaged in pedophilia, human trafficking, ritualistic abuse, false flag terrorism, and even cannibalism. So much so, that even when you try to offer them evidence of past verified/uncontested scandals that show that elite pedophile and human trafficking rings absolutely exist (e.g., the Franklin Scandal, the Dutroux Affair, Jeffrey Epstein's Lolita Island/express, Sandusky and his foster child charity, the Roman Catholic church scandals, etc.), most people don't want to go there. And because most people don't want their reality bubbles messed with, those who are engaged in this type of thing will continue to get away with it, possibly until they are powerful enough to carry on with it in public. And yes, even those of us who "know" it's real eventually have to turn away and focus on healthier interests. I myself often go on "conspiracy" binges whenever a particularly dubious event/scandal happens -- and then have to step away for weeks or months to get myself back to a place of balance and health. I do believe that staying too long in the darkness impacts our psyche/souls.

It's definitely not surprising that many of us turn to religion or spirituality after stumbling down this particularly disturbing rabbit hole. I agree it's likely part of an instinctive move to protect ourselves -- a desperate hope that there is something as powerfully "Good" out there to combat or protect against such overwhelming (and seemingly inhuman) Evil. Because once you understand that this stuff is likely really happening, you can't help getting to the question of whether there's a "God" and if so what His/Her/Its/Their nature is. You have to wonder, are these people: (1) using these types of "ritualistic abuse games" out of boredom or elite privilege (i.e., having all the power/wealth already and needing higher stakes) or to entrap/blackmail/control other members without any real belief in a supernatural/spiritual aspect; (2) deceived, depraved in-bred lunatics engaged in ancient rituals they believe will conjure an entity or dark entities that don't really exist? or (3) people with closely held knowledge of certain practices that actually do appease/connect with real dark supernatural forces? I just don't know...but it seems pretty weird for powerful, wealthy, highly educated Ivy League elites to be engaged in this type of costumed behavior unless they are of the belief that it "works" and is necessary to maintain their materialistic advantages in this reality.

Unfortunately, I frankly don't see any good "God" stopping these pedo/human trafficking networks, or any other acts of horror on this planet, so perhaps the Good God is (a) non-existent; (b) outmaneuvered/overpowered (c) amoral (d) disinterested or (e) a two-faced deity -- a Yin/Yang God, god of both good and evil. I guess I currently lean towards the idea that "God" is an amoral energetic force, capable of being utilized for both good and evil (i.e., that the intent of the magician is what matters). But I agree, there are so many questions and not enough answers and nothing has quite satisfied me yet in terms of a coherent worldview.

I hate to think that all of us "conspiracy nutters" who have gone down so many rabbit holes trying to understand the nature of our reality are going to end up in our last days right back where we were before we engaged on this atypical journey -- just as clueless as those who stayed in safer reality bubbles!
 
Have you read "The Trickster and the Paranormal" by George P. Hansen? I consider it a must read for anyone open minded about the paranormal. That book changed my life! :)

One thing gleaned from it is that the trickster sometimes "shows up" when one is involved in a trickster type of activity. e.g. A stage magician performing sleight of hand tricks might actually encounter "real magic" in the process.

So if that principle is true - that trickster type activities and periods of change and liminality draw in synchronicity and Psi and possibly trickster entities - then it might be impossible from where we sit to figure out how many of the coincidences around 9/11 are instances of planned symbolism and how many simply showed up to the magic show.

I also think the same could apply to the UFO phenomenon. It is entirely possible that deep state planners thought that employing tricks to seed the idea of alien life and alien invasion would enable humanity to unify globally and avoid self-destruction. The trickster phenomenon might have been drawn in so that they lost total control of the UFO and alien abduction tricks. There seems to be some evidence of this in crop circle formations as well.
Thanks, Hurmanetar! Love these ideas. I just downloaded a sample of "The Trickster and the Paranormal" to my Kindle. Looking forward to reading it!
 
Thanks, Hurmanetar! Love these ideas. I just downloaded a sample of "The Trickster and the Paranormal" to my Kindle. Looking forward to reading it!
Great! It can be a tough slog in parts when he lists off name/date/place details about a lot of Psi history, so I just kinda skimmed through that and got the main ideas which are gold.
 
IMO, whenever the elites start circling the wagons and using the power of the controlled press to manipulate or reroute a narrative, you can be sure that the real story is anything but the one they are selling.
Yeah . . . It seems so obvious once you notice it . . .

This reminded me of recently seeing some news clips about Gore and global warming . . . I told who was with me basically the same thing: everyone was singing his praise, major world leaders were talking global warming . . . as you put it: the elites were chorusing right behind him . . .

How did that not make me majorly suspicious back in the day?

I mean, there are plenty of real problems - environmental and otherwise - that they're as quiet as can be on.
 
Malf, how tasty was the pie? I hope it wasn't Salo-type cuisine. (Good to see you again... even in minimalist mode.)
Ian, during looking at the Skeptiko older threads, I found the one where you apparently defend the JFK assasination "conspiracy theory".

So, four years ago (the thread is from 2013) you weren't so opposed to "conspiracy theories" as you seem to be now? Or JFK assasination is an unique exception from your general dislike of "conspiracy theories"? Maybe you think it is better proven than most "conspiracy theories" (which is true)? If you think so, why you, as far as I know, reject another comparably evidence-rich "conspiracy theory" - 9/11 false flag?

And, at last: no matter what your answer to the above question would be, I hope you will agree that "conspiracy theories" differ greatly in their evidential and argumentative support, and 9/11 false flag and JFK assassination have much, much more sound evidence and valid argumentation than an Alex's recent choice, Pizzagate, and cannot be equalised with it? And that, unlike Pizzagate, whether they are correct or incorrect, they, at least, do not desrve to be called "absurd" or "baseless"?
 

Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
Ian, during looking at the Skeptiko older threads, I found the one where you apparently defend the JFK assasination "conspiracy theory".

So, four years ago (the thread is from 2013) you weren't so opposed to "conspiracy theories" as you seem to be now? Or JFK assasination is an unique exception from your general dislike of "conspiracy theories"? Maybe you think it is better proven than most "conspiracy theories" (which is true)? If you think so, why you, as far as I know, reject another comparably evidence-rich "conspiracy theory" - 9/11 false flag?

And, at last: no matter what your answer to the above question would be, I hope you will agree that "conspiracy theories" differ greatly in their evidential and argumentative support, and 9/11 false flag and JFK assassination have much, much more sound evidence and valid argumentation than an Alex's recent choice, Pizzagate, and cannot be equalised with it? And that, unlike Pizzagate, whether they are correct or incorrect, they, at least, do not desrve to be called "absurd" or "baseless"?
Sorry, Vortex, I think you misunderstood my post, which I can well understand. My remark to Malf was OT: it was a sly in-joke about his temp ban (the kind of pie he had been invited to eat).

Re: 9/11. No, I would not equalise that with the Pizzagates and Sandy Hooks. It definitely has a lot more evidential and argumentative support, as you put it. My opinion re: 9/11 is I have none, I haven't been motivated to really delve into it, to the point of making my mind up about it.
 
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Sorry, Vortex, I think you misunderstood my post. My remark to Malf was OT: it was a sly joke about his temp ban.

Re: 9/11. No, I would not equalise that with the Pizzagates and Sandy Hooks. It definitely has a lot more evidential and argumentative support, as you put it. My opinion re: 9/11 is I have none, I haven't been motivated to really delve into it.
Thanks, Ian. That' why I said "apparently defend". The possibility of misunderstading is always present, that's why I often add words "apparently" and "seemingly" than I talk about other people's claims and views: I do not want to put my impressions into others' minds!
 

Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
Btw, saw the recent film "Jackie" on Netflix the other day. Disappointed (though I didn't expect it - in part because it's about her personal drama) that they didn't address the conspiracy, although there is mention after his murder of the Cuban hardliners hating JFK, and in the recreation of the assassination based on the Zapruder film as experienced subjectively by Jackie the shots hitting JFK's head (which lead to her fetching the missing brain piece) definitely seem to be coming from different directions. You can see just a part of it in this special effects clip about the film.
 
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