Coronavirus Pandemic

It's hard to square for you Silence, because you don't seem to take a stance on anything.
That is a good point, Silence doesn't seem to have realised that much of Skeptiko is about science and you really need to know a bit of science to contribute to these threads. Assertions like:
He may be right (as I've now had to state repeatedly) but he may also be wrong.
don't really cut it IMHO. That level of abstraction is just vacuous. Surely it is necessary to explore the content of what is being discussed?

David
 
It's not bullshit. I've read the reports.
All of them? Wow!
They are mostly from Doctors due to the language used.
How do you know? Do they have a special code?
And even if they are, so what? it does not change the fact that openVAERS reports are only correlative.
It simply reports events that happened that jus after vaccination. It does not investigate whether these events are caused by the vaccination.

Besides that, my previous point still stands, simply everyone can report whatever they want, even an event of "Hulkism" after a flu shot.
From the same vice article

In 2004, anesthesiologist James Laidler submitted an alarming report to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS). Laidler wrote that after he got his annual influenza vaccine, his muscles began to grow in size, his skin became green, and he turned into the Incredible Hulk.
Laidler’s intent was not to notify government officials of a dangerous side effect, but to show the need for caution when interpreting the data found in VAERS, the national vaccine safety surveillance program run by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

The openVAERS project was conceived as a sort of alarm for detecting statistic rise in certain adverse reactions.
ANY use of the data beyond that goal is putting the data completely out of context
The fact that the CDC even maintains such a database goes contrary to the narrative of antivax conspiracies.

And supposed dangers of vaccines? How about you ask those families of people whom have died as a result of them so far.
Problem is that most off these claimed deaths are reported by known antivaxxers.
In reality, there are averse reactions, but not as many, and not off the severity that these people claim.
The benefits of vaccination still far outweigh the dangers.

Vice are liars.
If you read the article, can you tell me where they lied?

Actually, it's people like you who are the idiots that are going to make this thing stay for ever.
Tell me, how?

How about you be a man and face your deep down fear of how fucked this thing whole scam is. Be honest with yourself. It was never about a virus. It was always about control.

And get wrecked mate. I ain't taking no vaccine because some plebian on the internet told me to. I'll do it if I decide for myself it is correct.

Yes i am afraid.
Afraid that vaccine hesitancy is going to give room for more deadly variants.
Given that the alternative facts, and conspiracy mindset of this internet era is going to make it impossible to do anything about it, makes me really afraid.

I am afraid of a world where people believe what some internet rando says, rather than than science.
Afraid of a world where everything is about clicks, and nothing about truth.

I am afraid, and if you would honestly investigate with an open mind, you would be to.
 
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In the early months of this pandemic, some people advocated for letting the virus rampant, so to develop herd immunity.
In any fairly dens populated country this would have resulted in a complete overpowering of the health care system.
Death tolls would have been be multiples of what they are now. Knowing how bad they already are now with all the effort it took, that would have been devastating on all levels.

And yet, now we have a safe way to get to herd immunity through vaccination, the same people are decrying the vaccines.
That seems so insane to me.
Can anyone explain?
 
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Since this is a forum that takes psychic matters seriously, I'd like to suggest that the COVID crisis is being caused at a non-human level.

I am really talking to those of you who think we are dealing with a plandemic - a scam if you like - those that feel governments are honestly struggling with a terrible medical crisis, needn't respond because from their perspective there is nothing to explain!

Civilisations have grown powerful and then vanished without trace throughout history, and I think we are actually watching ours die under our feet. This isn't really a call to action, because I guess we can't do anything to stop it, but I'd like to find out what people feel.

I mean a scam on this scale is unprecedented, and the ultimate 'aim' seems decidedly vague. If this was a purely human idea, I don't think it would attract enough people to make it work - yet sadly it seems to be working like a charm.

Let's try to keep left/right politics out of the discussion.

David
 
The COVID-1984 planscamDEMic is just too convenient for too many nefarious "groups." It's my opinion that this "event" is being orchestrated from many levels of being - all founded in an "anti-life" sentiment.
 
Since this is a forum that takes psychic matters seriously, I'd like to suggest that the COVID crisis is being caused at a non-human level.
WTF are you talking about?

I am really talking to those of you who think we are dealing with a plandemic - a scam if you like - those that feel governments are honestly struggling with a terrible medical crisis, needn't respond because from their perspective there is nothing to explain!
What do you actually think needs explaining? Why would we need any other explanation than a nasty virus?

Civilisations have grown powerful and then vanished without trace throughout history, and I think we are actually watching ours die under our feet. This isn't really a call to action, because I guess we can't do anything to stop it, but I'd like to find out what people feel.
If these civilizations vanished without a trace, how would we know they existed?

I mean a scam on this scale is unprecedented, and the ultimate 'aim' seems decidedly vague. If this was a purely human idea, I don't think it would attract enough people to make it work - yet sadly it seems to be working like a charm.
You are not making any sense at all David.
We are used for you to be wrong on almost everything, but this is getting worryingly confused.

Let's try to keep left/right politics out of the discussion.

David
That horse has long time bolted.
For this, you can blame the right that politicized simple and sensible measures.
Or blame the religious right "pro-life" club that overnight became the pro-death bunch.
Anyway, i did not see anyone on the side of science, or even reality, try to make this political.
 
All of them? Wow!

Obviously not all of them.

But neither have you I bet either.


Bart V said:
How do you know? Do they have a special code?

It doesn't take a genius to see that the language used is not typical of the general public.


Bart V said:
And even if they are, so what? it does not change the fact that openVAERS reports are only correlative.

Perhaps. But they indicate something. And that something is a growing number of adverse affects being reported by people.

Bart V said:
Besides that, my previous point still stands, simply everyone can report whatever they want, even an event of "Hulkism" after a flu shot.
From the same vice article

That was one silly item out of thousands of reports. Is every single one a lie then?


Bart V said:
The openVAERS project was conceived as a sort of alarm for detecting statistic rise in certain adverse reactions.
ANY use of the data beyond that goal is putting the data completely out of context
The fact that the CDC even maintains such a database goes contrary to the narrative of antivax conspiracies.

Not really. Data is data. The interpretation of it is the problem. You say there's no adverse reactions. I say that there are. And serious ones too. Based on not just this source, but from what I've read and heard already.


Bart V said:
Problem is that most off these claimed deaths are reported by known antivaxxers.

Right, so most of the adverse reaction reports are by antivaxxers. So show me the proof that this is the case please.

Bart V said:
In reality, there are averse reactions, but not as many, and not off the severity that these people claim.

How do you know that they aren't of the severity that these people claim and number of?

Bart V said:
The benefits of vaccination still far outweigh the dangers.

Your opinion, not mine.

You have admitted adverse reactions, but still want other people to potentially suffer serious side effects. Again, no thanks.




Bart V said:
Yes i am afraid.
Afraid that vaccine hesitancy is going to give room for more deadly variants.
Given that the alternative facts, and conspiracy mindset of this internet era is going to make it impossible to do anything about it, makes me really afraid.

I am afraid of a world where people believe what some internet rando says, rather than than science.
Afraid of a world where everything is about clicks, and nothing about truth.

I am afraid, and if you would honestly investigate with an open mind, you would be to.

I'm not really afraid of the virus. I'm afraid of other peoples reaction to it for the past year.
 
I wonder why Bart V found his way to this world? It certainly cannot be to live! And even further to my question, why would Bart V insist others risk the potential "anti-life" experiences "pseudo-vaccinations" (not to mention actual vaccinations pose?

Even Fauci said this isn;t a vaccine, it simply lowers the symptoms if someone gets "the shots" and then gets the virus. It is an illusion to think "corona virus varients" are lessened by folks getting these shots. Corona viruses have been around as long as mankind. They come and go.

Why won't Bart V listen to science instead of pseudo-science mouthpiece shills?

 
Canada's government doesn't see covid as a bad thing. It's a way to force Marxism on a country that otherwise might put up more of a fight.

 
Yeah, no surprise there right?

Mainstream media has become a cosmic joke over the years; that is if it ever really wasn't to start.

Tough part now is it seems almost impossible to find actual, rigorous, ethical journalism these days. All the "alt" news that consistently gets put forth in response appears equally conflicted as the MSM. Whether the conflict arises from profit or ideological motives doesn't matter, its still compromised. A free press is a great and needed concept, I just don't know where we're going to find it.
 
It doesn't take a genius to see that the language used is not typical of the general public.
Nor does it take a doctor to submit these reports.
But that still does not negate my point that simply anyone can report anything on openVAERS

Perhaps. But they indicate something. And that something is a growing number of adverse affects being reported by people.
Could be because people are being vaccinated by the millions right now.
But that also doe not negate the other point: OpenVAERS simply reports events that happened that jus after vaccination. It does not investigate whether these events are caused by the vaccination.

Not really. Data is data. The interpretation of it is the problem. You say there's no adverse reactions. I say that there are. And serious ones too. Based on not just this source, but from what I've read and heard already.
We are talking about openVAERS because that is the source brought up. It does not say what you think it does, i explained you why.
If you have evidence from other credible sources, maybe we can discuss it.

You have admitted adverse reactions, but still want other people to potentially suffer serious side effects. Again, no thanks.
In my country Almost one in ten got Covid, A staggering one in about 500 of all the people in my country died!
For the third time hospitals are filling up with Covid patients, again they have to postpone other care.
Vaccinations can stop all off that.

We vaccinated about 2 million people over here, and we did not have any adverse reactions of significance, nobody died as a result of vaccination.
Score so far in Belgium: Covid 23655 deaths, vaccine 0 deaths
So it is not opinion that the benefits of vaccinations far outweigh the dangers, it is simply fact.
 
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