Coronavirus Pandemic

Austria, Norway, Denmark, and the Czech Republic have plans to reopen parts of their economies, but they have not concluded the virus is harmless.

If you look at the details of their plans to reopen, they confirm that these countries consider the virus to be a deadly danger much worse than the flu.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/08/cor...-countries-set-to-lift-lockdown-measures.html

Austria’s chancellor, the world’s youngest head of government at 33-years-old, said the plan was for all shops to follow suit and open from May 1.​
However, only one shopper per 20 square meters of shopping space will be permitted and all shoppers will be required to wear face masks at supermarkets and drugstores of more than 400 square meters in size.​
Kurz said restaurants and hotels would not re-open until the middle of next month, at the earliest, and public events would not be allowed until at least late June.
...
In Denmark, care centers and schools are set to reopen from April 15, allowing parents to return to a normal workday. However, all remaining restrictions, including bans of public gatherings of more than 10 people, will stay in place for another four weeks.​
“This will probably be a bit like walking the tightrope,” Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen told a media briefing earlier this week. “If we stand still along the way we could fall and if we go too fast it can go wrong. Therefore, we must take one cautious step at a time.”​
...​
Norway has also announced plans to gradually relax coronavirus restrictions, with kindergartens now scheduled to reopen between April 20 and April 27. Schools from the first grade to fourth grade will open from April 27.​
...​
Solberg warned that while measures would be taken to slowly reopen, working from home would continue and Norwegians should get used to measures designed to limit the spread of the virus “for a long time.”
...​
In the Czech Republic, the government has said some shops will reopen from Thursday, with rules to be relaxed on sporting activities that don’t involve the congregation of people — such as running and cycling.​
oh boy. Well then, I guess if they are going to be one of the first out the door, we can all watch from the windows to make sure they make it across the street.
 
All media have the intention to sway opinion. Humans cannot avoid bias. But we are now in an environment where the biases have taken sides... there's no middle ground. The thing about that Swedish website is that. for example, the German doctor featured in the videos did spin the numbers IMO... but that's the key here. It's up to me to decide for myself what to believe. And everything we are forced into these days is that we are assessed as either on one extreme or the other.

The answer IMO is a sober, mature, yes... difficult, set of decisions that say... hey, we can do this for now, but if we go too far, we destroy all futures for all people and no one wants that. But when you have such a soulless media... and you have idiots like Fauci and, in some ways, Birx - who only see ONE THING... do everything you can to save every single life - with absolutely NO consideration of all the lives and reasons to live that will be lost if you blow up the entire world operational mechanisms... the economy, and the media forces the President into the box he appears to be in... then, IMO, Donald Trump needs to stand up to the challenge and be a leader and get that damn economic "re-start" task force to come up with a plan that he helps create and/or agrees with and then announce it to the American people and share the reasons he believes this is what we must do and then be a freaking leader and implement it. And make sure the plan has localized measurement taking where the plan includes adjustments based on the data and the results.

That's what should be done and done NOW.

You make an address to the nation to announce the implementation of the plan on May 1. You make sure folks know the plan is guidance because this governmental structure requires these actions be taken by the states (and thus up to the governors)... but you put the pressure on them with the public address.

You stress the adherence to the guidelines that we have now no matter when an area opens up. You announce this plan in advance so that the vulnerable can be protected... that families and communities can prepare for how to get these folks what they need so they can survive their own, self-imposed quarantine.

You take the freaking handcuffs off the FDA and get treatments to where needed ASAP - there's many! And each day new, promising treatments emerge. Fast Track it all. Make sure the laws are adjusted for the emergency... liability laws I mean. You already have "The Right to Try" law... Vaccines are in process but the red tape that can be removed MUST be removed.
And get the testing ramped up - both types... the one that shows you had it and the one that can show you don't have it now. That's vital to the plan.

Go, go go! But plan it, announce it, implement it and then adjust where needed when needed. Will a life be lost directly caused by COVID-19 and the aggressive restart? YES! Will lives be saved? YES! But be a leader, make the case, stop caring about an election... because, the bottom line is this - Only a true leader should win re-election anyways... and this is Trump's opportunity to prove he is or... he isn't.
***
Hon, I think Trump is doing all that already. We are waiting this next week to 2 weeks to see exactly what we have on our hands here. Trump doesn't operate in a vacuum. I don't think for a second he is really listening to Fauci, he's just the swamp creature gonna take the hits. Fauci has always been a swamp creature. So is that guy from the W.H.O.

Look, we're sending out $$ cash payments, holding it together. This is something that has never happened before. All new territory. Trump doesn't like to lose lives like the rest of the idiots that have been running the place. We can hold this together a few more weeks. Then we'll know what we got & be further down the road to something that might help us (medically). Trump did uncuff the FDA. I think it's called "right to try".

Now, since I'm a numbers person... I think you look at the graph we've been given & we see exactly when we do this. It will make the difference (maybe) between millions dying or just thousands. Thank God Boris is out of ICU just reported. Use this graph: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

BTW, not sure where you live, but if it was N.Y. you might be a little more scared & not so quick to jump. The stats say 7,067 deaths. God. I might risk more if I were in Wyoming.
 
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Jim, nothing in any of my posts suggested the virus is harmless. In fact, my most optimistic hope is that its no worse than the worst flu (and slightly worse than that).

The point is, you do not have to guarantee a massive, years long destruction of major reasons to live like hope that you can care for your family and loved ones (if you so have such a role as I do), or... that you could have any semblance of life whereby you still have the desire to live without sinking into a despair so great you risk ending your own life or, and likely on a much wider scale, sink into alcoholism and/or drug addiction where you not only harm yourself, but harm what loved ones you have and your community to boot.

That has been the entire theme of all my posts, not pooh-hooing a serious virus. Just pointing out that overreaction, which IMO has been imposed upon the US to the degree that to take step-by-step measures like the countries that are planning to re-start can be done and should be done before the damage to the economy does far more long term damage than the virus could ever dream to do.

There is that magic line... and many are thinking we have already crossed it. Soon, we will be so far past it that you will see the American people saying, "enough!" IMO we are almost there.
***
Sam, calm down. All of us are freaked, take a breath. It WILL come to an end. It's not going to go on all year. Maybe we can try to open some locations in May, maybe all. The gov. is going to send each family within the next week or so $1,200 per adult and $500. per child. You can also go online & apply for "SNAP" (free food). Now, if you have a mortgage they are not as helpful, cause they will hold it back 3/6 or 9 months but then they want a lump sum payment at the end of that. Which helps NOBODY. BUT, some banks might work with you to just pay the escrow & that would save you over $1,000 in payments a month.

You must be locked in with the kids! I'd be pulling my hair out. Thank goodness mine just got their own homes! So, you might be under a lot more pressure than others. Take it one day at a time. You're not alone in this. I think I read (let me look it up) okay it says nearly 1/3 of all Americans did NOT pay rent in April. So, some provisions will have to be made. Laws will be enacted not allowing people to be thrown in the streets because they can't pay because people can't work. THERE WILL BE ALLOWANCES.
 
Okay, so SOMEBODY said look at this podcast.. so I thought...okay. I'm listening now and of course I thought of you guys... WTH?

^^ See my avatar for how I feel about this.
 
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I explained why I would be reluctant to take a cv19 vaccination.

This (below) is why I would be reluctant to even be tested for cv19. It's hard to predict what I'd do until the situation arises but right now my plan is not to call a doctor if I get sick - unless maybe I have trouble breathing:
(Did I mention I don't trust doctors?)

https://www.boston25news.com/news/m...fth-covid-19-test/Z7LBXJIRTNHA3I3PEHF3JIPELY/
Medford 25-year-old braces for fifth COVID-19 test
BOSTON — She’s been tested for COVID-19 four times, but her results keep coming back differently.​
...​
VanGuilder first began experiencing symptoms in early March.​
...​
“I don’t want to have to take another test,” said Kara VanGuilder, in an interview with Boston 25 News Reporter Drew Karedes on Thursday. “Every time I take a COVID test, I cry. The test itself is very painful. The last time, I had a nose bleed.”​
...​
“Does this mean the last time I tested negative was a false negative or was this time a false positive,” she questioned. “If I do test positive Monday, it starts my quarantine time all over again.”​
VanGuilder said she no longer has any symptoms and currently feels 100 % better. She’s currently under orders to quarantine with no human contact.​


In my other post (link at top) I edited out the story about the time I went to the doctor and they took my blood pressure 5 times. My arms were sore by the time Ieft. First the assistant took my blood pressure and it was normal. After the doctor interviewed me and learned my parents had high blood pressure she decided I had it too. She took my blood pressure again, then the other arm, then tried two other blood measuring devices. She finally gave up and had to accept I don't have high blood pressure.

Did I mention I don't trust doctors?
 
All media have the intention to sway opinion. Humans cannot avoid bias. But we are now in an environment where the biases have taken sides... there's no middle ground. The thing about that Swedish website is that. for example, the German doctor featured in the videos did spin the numbers IMO... but that's the key here. It's up to me to decide for myself what to believe. And everything we are forced into these days is that we are assessed as either on one extreme or the other.

The answer IMO is a sober, mature, yes... difficult, set of decisions that say... hey, we can do this for now, but if we go too far, we destroy all futures for all people and no one wants that. But when you have such a soulless media... and you have idiots like Fauci and, in some ways, Birx - who only see ONE THING... do everything you can to save every single life - with absolutely NO consideration of all the lives and reasons to live that will be lost if you blow up the entire world operational mechanisms... the economy, and the media forces the President into the box he appears to be in... then, IMO, Donald Trump needs to stand up to the challenge and be a leader and get that damn economic "re-start" task force to come up with a plan that he helps create and/or agrees with and then announce it to the American people and share the reasons he believes this is what we must do and then be a freaking leader and implement it. And make sure the plan has localized measurement taking where the plan includes adjustments based on the data and the results.

That's what should be done and done NOW.

You make an address to the nation to announce the implementation of the plan on May 1. You make sure folks know the plan is guidance because this governmental structure requires these actions be taken by the states (and thus up to the governors)... but you put the pressure on them with the public address.

You stress the adherence to the guidelines that we have now no matter when an area opens up. You announce this plan in advance so that the vulnerable can be protected... that families and communities can prepare for how to get these folks what they need so they can survive their own, self-imposed quarantine.

You take the freaking handcuffs off the FDA and get treatments to where needed ASAP - there's many! And each day new, promising treatments emerge. Fast Track it all. Make sure the laws are adjusted for the emergency... liability laws I mean. You already have "The Right to Try" law... Vaccines are in process but the red tape that can be removed MUST be removed.
And get the testing ramped up - both types... the one that shows you had it and the one that can show you don't have it now. That's vital to the plan.

Go, go go! But plan it, announce it, implement it and then adjust where needed when needed. Will a life be lost directly caused by COVID-19 and the aggressive restart? YES! Will lives be saved? YES! But be a leader, make the case, stop caring about an election... because, the bottom line is this - Only a true leader should win re-election anyways... and this is Trump's opportunity to prove he is or... he isn't.
Sam the problem with such enthusiasm is that there are way too many unknowns, so there is no way to calculate risk. A conservative approach is the only responsible way until risks can be calculated. These unknowns include:
  • How will the infection [and hence death] rate develop if things go back to any form of BAU?
  • How do we develop risk assessments for business types? This is vital for any business that relies on lots of people in the one place at the one time.
  • What portion of the community will continue to be vulnerable to the virus if it continues to be active in the community?
  • How will elevated risk of infection impact social behaviour, and what impact will that have on businesses and employment?
  • How will government deal with continued significant rates of infection in a country that has a privatised health care system?
Reopening for business is a very popular idea for obvious reasons. But in the absence of data such a course of action any time soon is just a gamble. Sometimes we gamble and win, but mostly not. In this case the US would be going all in on not a strong hand. It could be a good call. But if it isn't the consequences could be catastrophic.

Obviously I am not about to say what the US should do. I will say that if our PM proposed something reckless he would not be supported by any but a few who see only profit as the goal.

Controls over medicines are critical. While there are a lot of possibles being tried it will be some time before efficacy and safety can be ascertained. There are many instances of medicines going out to the marketplace as supposedly safe, but turn out to lethal or dangerous. In the rush to get an anti-viral medicine a lot of mistakes and be made, lies told and harm done.

Trump and his mates might be right about this anti-malarial medicine. Or they could be wrong. Expert medical opinion is divided at this stage. I observe that Trump and play are not urging that evaluation and testing be speeded up - rather people should be taking the drug now. However there is dividing line between a salesman and a physician - one is duty bound to do no harm by not urging actions not grounded in science.

Precipitous action sometimes pays off. But steady, methodical and thought through action tends to deliver more enduring results.

Yes, there is a crisis. The economy is tanking. But we conjure money out of nothing these days. We have to chose whether we live in a community or an economy - and whether the function of an economy is to serve the community, or just a handful.

A number of expert observers think we won't go back to business as usual. That may be a good thing. We need to think about that. For the few who see that their wealth and influence may dwindle that prospect is awful. They will being urging others to expose themselves to risks they will not be exposed to.

In World War 1 the advent of machinery in warfare hadn't sunk into the minds of military leaders who sent thousands of men to their deaths on a daily basis while camping out behind the lines. Something had fundamentally changed about how wars would be fought, but those who were leaders did not know it and did not get it.

This may be a similar kind of situation.
 
As of today, Sweden has an infection rate of 90.06 people per 100,000 people. Sweden has a death rate of 7.81 per 100,000 people.

As of today, with all the draconian measures in the US you have an infection rate of 129.86 people per 100,000 people. Sweden has a death rate of 4.45 per 100,000 people.

One nation took measures that does not destroy their economy. The other has. Which one do you think is which?
Well, not every Swede is as glib about this as you are: https://forbetterscience.com/2020/0...s-call-for-evidence-based-policy-on-covid-19/
 
Sam the problem with such enthusiasm is that there are way too many unknowns, so there is no way to calculate risk. A conservative approach is the only responsible way until risks can be calculated. These unknowns include:
  • How will the infection [and hence death] rate develop if things go back to any form of BAU?
  • How do we develop risk assessments for business types? This is vital for any business that relies on lots of people in the one place at the one time.
  • What portion of the community will continue to be vulnerable to the virus if it continues to be active in the community?
  • How will elevated risk of infection impact social behaviour, and what impact will that have on businesses and employment?
  • How will government deal with continued significant rates of infection in a country that has a privatised health care system?
Reopening for business is a very popular idea for obvious reasons. But in the absence of data such a course of action any time soon is just a gamble. Sometimes we gamble and win, but mostly not. In this case the US would be going all in on not a strong hand. It could be a good call. But if it isn't the consequences could be catastrophic.

Obviously I am not about to say what the US should do. I will say that if our PM proposed something reckless he would not be supported by any but a few who see only profit as the goal.

Controls over medicines are critical. While there are a lot of possibles being tried it will be some time before efficacy and safety can be ascertained. There are many instances of medicines going out to the marketplace as supposedly safe, but turn out to lethal or dangerous. In the rush to get an anti-viral medicine a lot of mistakes and be made, lies told and harm done.

Trump and his mates might be right about this anti-malarial medicine. Or they could be wrong. Expert medical opinion is divided at this stage. I observe that Trump and play are not urging that evaluation and testing be speeded up - rather people should be taking the drug now. However there is dividing line between a salesman and a physician - one is duty bound to do no harm by not urging actions not grounded in science.

Precipitous action sometimes pays off. But steady, methodical and thought through action tends to deliver more enduring results.

Yes, there is a crisis. The economy is tanking. But we conjure money out of nothing these days. We have to chose whether we live in a community or an economy - and whether the function of an economy is to serve the community, or just a handful.

A number of expert observers think we won't go back to business as usual. That may be a good thing. We need to think about that. For the few who see that their wealth and influence may dwindle that prospect is awful. They will being urging others to expose themselves to risks they will not be exposed to.

In World War 1 the advent of machinery in warfare hadn't sunk into the minds of military leaders who sent thousands of men to their deaths on a daily basis while camping out behind the lines. Something had fundamentally changed about how wars would be fought, but those who were leaders did not know it and did not get it.

This may be a similar kind of situation.
You make a case here. (it must be noted, this post and most of my recent posts are US centric... as I honor each nations right to serve the citizens and residents of their nation and their responsibility to do so).

But I see nothing in your post that addresses the risks I (and others) have clearly pointed out if we did not develop and implement a plan where that plan is announced to the people of a nation and followed then, with solid coordination with governors (state by state), followed through on.

I also read things in your post that appear to be considered as facts which I know are not facts but "spin" by certain media... as if the information sources you have accessed are only those (thus why you might "believe" it to be true).

Let me provide personal information so you can assess if I have motives to push this -

I am 62 years old and am 40 lbs overweight (and considered obese). I have asthma, I have family history of heart issues. I am just below what they call "pre-diabetic." I have borderline hypertension as my blood pressure readings hover between 125 over 72 ish up to 140 over 80 ish most days. Surely I am in a higher risk category.

I am (now) retired not by choice but because my specialty is no longer in demand. My income is derived from a very conservative portfolio of investments spread over many different sectors and has barely been impacted by this financial downturn. My income supports my wife, an immigrant from Colombia whose an artist and earns no income. I also provide the home, food and medicines for her 22 year old daughter. My average annual Adjusted Gross Income over the last seven years has been below $45,000 and I live in a city, Dallas, Texas and rent the home we live in. My net worth (not counting the investments) is less than $20,000, maybe less than $10,000. Why would I share this? To make sure a reader of my posts doesn't draw some conclusion that my arguments are, in any way, based on selfishness or greed. Or that I don't have serious risk with regards to what might happen with me if I caught the virus.

It's just the opposite. I am watching a decay of a formerly (and very recently) vibrant society. It seems so clear to me that costs to our society are not simply and only the costs of illness, the strain on the medical system (though the fears of the degree of impact have already proven way, way overblown save for New York City)... and most significantly, the loss of life... all that directly from the illness. - the costs (again, as I outlined in other posts but seems to have been missed or ignored) are the easily predictable costs of poverty (poverty kills), depression and despair (for those who lost jobs... jobs they held to support their families and themselves, jobs they see little or no hope in getting back - depression kills), those who resort to drugs or alcohol, become addicted and resort to crime or other harmful means to support their habit (only a band aid anyways... depression or overdose too often win - drug/alcohol addiction kills).

Specifically, with regards to Hydrochloroquine, zithromiacin and zinc... more information is coming forth daily from credible sources and this includes studies. But because of legacy regulations on the US FDA, foreign studies cannot be used to approve the drug formerly. And the "in the tank" media (most of the major media conglomerates that flood the US airwaves and dominate social media (by design) and are algorithmically placed at the top of Google (the dominant search engine as well as other search engines), they intentionally filter out all the positive news and I have yet to see ANY of these mention that the FDA cleared the treatment officially for off-label use. Please, read that again - the FDA cleared the treatment officially for off-label use. Donald Trump personally and directly, via his promotion that folks who feel they "have nothing to loose" (because they believe they are close to death with no other treatment available) - call their doctor and discuss it and... if they and their doctor decide - try it as (again) what do they have to lose? Their life! (to quote a news source that applied this logic to the risk of using this treatment despite the fact the safety of the drug, Hydrochloroquine has been overwhelmingly proven for over six decades of widespread use. The following is not the only example where Trump, because he brought it up (or was asked about it) in his news conferences, played a key role in saving a life in her own words.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...redit-trump-her-covid-19-recovery/2967210001/

"If President Trump had not talked about this it wouldn't have been something that would be accessible for anyone to be able to get right now.” Within a few hours of taking the drug, she said she was already in recovery.

But Whitsett said Trump's comments helped in her case.

"It has a lot to do with the president ... bringing it up," Whitsett said. "He is the only person who has the power to make it a priority."

BUT - In the piece you can read the following -

"Health experts, however, remain skeptical about both its safety and its effectiveness."

So which health experts would that comment be referring to? Well, some are the same one's who bought into the ridiculous models and have demonstrated single mindedness and only one goal without any consideration of the impact of everlasting draconian efforts. Other "experts" are easily vetted as to their political biases. I have yet to come upon a single exception to either of these. If you have one, show me.

So now... look at the media. Why do they push a massively spun single side of the story? Because it captures the emotionally and/or the idealogically vulnerable of the masses who, in many cases, never see the underlying most likely truth. They want as much chaos, mayhem and death as possible. They want it all and only because they believe such is their only hope of achieving the political goal of defeating Trump in seven months. Did that sink in? Let it sink in. And then, if one is able... start watching those same news sources with both eyes open instead of one.
 
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I explained why I would be reluctant to take a cv19 vaccination.

This (below) is why I would be reluctant to even be tested for cv19. It's hard to predict what I'd do until the situation arises but right now my plan is not to call a doctor if I get sick - unless maybe I have trouble breathing:
(Did I mention I don't trust doctors?)

https://www.boston25news.com/news/m...fth-covid-19-test/Z7LBXJIRTNHA3I3PEHF3JIPELY/
Medford 25-year-old braces for fifth COVID-19 test
BOSTON — She’s been tested for COVID-19 four times, but her results keep coming back differently.​
...​
VanGuilder first began experiencing symptoms in early March.​
...​
“I don’t want to have to take another test,” said Kara VanGuilder, in an interview with Boston 25 News Reporter Drew Karedes on Thursday. “Every time I take a COVID test, I cry. The test itself is very painful. The last time, I had a nose bleed.”​
...​
“Does this mean the last time I tested negative was a false negative or was this time a false positive,” she questioned. “If I do test positive Monday, it starts my quarantine time all over again.”​
VanGuilder said she no longer has any symptoms and currently feels 100 % better. She’s currently under orders to quarantine with no human contact.​


In my other post (link at top) I edited out the story about the time I went to the doctor and they took my blood pressure 5 times. My arms were sore by the time Ieft. First the assistant took my blood pressure and it was normal. After the doctor interviewed me and learned my parents had high blood pressure she decided I had it too. She took my blood pressure again, then the other arm, then tried two other blood measuring devices. She finally gave up and had to accept I don't have high blood pressure.

Did I mention I don't trust doctors?
***
I had 5 doctors (FIVE) tell me I had cancer & I had to abort my son. FIVE. My son is 25 now and no, I didn't have cancer. The OBGYN was floored, as I laid on the operating table (like the scarecrow from oz) my parts were all over the place while they took samples. After 2 hours laying there, I asked if the lab downstairs knew I was up here all over the place? Finally after all biopsies.. nope no cancer. He kept me "open for business" because he was sure he'd have to remove SOMETHING!

I'm keepin my organs THANK YOU. You never know when you'll need one.

BTW, the new correct thing for this covid-19 is you DO NOT incubate! DO NOT incubate. Give oxygen but not the thing where they put you in a coma & insert the tube. THAT is killing people. Something about a hypobaric chamber.

Again, when it is discovered that this nose swab test is wrong AND IT SHOULD BE A BLOOD TEST PCR. I want FULL credit here!
 
Sam the problem with such enthusiasm is that there are way too many unknowns, so there is no way to calculate risk. A conservative approach is the only responsible way until risks can be calculated. These unknowns include:
  • How will the infection [and hence death] rate develop if things go back to any form of BAU?
  • How do we develop risk assessments for business types? This is vital for any business that relies on lots of people in the one place at the one time.
  • What portion of the community will continue to be vulnerable to the virus if it continues to be active in the community?
  • How will elevated risk of infection impact social behaviour, and what impact will that have on businesses and employment?
  • How will government deal with continued significant rates of infection in a country that has a privatised health care system?
Reopening for business is a very popular idea for obvious reasons. But in the absence of data such a course of action any time soon is just a gamble. Sometimes we gamble and win, but mostly not. In this case the US would be going all in on not a strong hand. It could be a good call. But if it isn't the consequences could be catastrophic.

Obviously I am not about to say what the US should do. I will say that if our PM proposed something reckless he would not be supported by any but a few who see only profit as the goal.

Controls over medicines are critical. While there are a lot of possibles being tried it will be some time before efficacy and safety can be ascertained. There are many instances of medicines going out to the marketplace as supposedly safe, but turn out to lethal or dangerous. In the rush to get an anti-viral medicine a lot of mistakes and be made, lies told and harm done.

Trump and his mates might be right about this anti-malarial medicine. Or they could be wrong. Expert medical opinion is divided at this stage. I observe that Trump and play are not urging that evaluation and testing be speeded up - rather people should be taking the drug now. However there is dividing line between a salesman and a physician - one is duty bound to do no harm by not urging actions not grounded in science.

Precipitous action sometimes pays off. But steady, methodical and thought through action tends to deliver more enduring results.

Yes, there is a crisis. The economy is tanking. But we conjure money out of nothing these days. We have to chose whether we live in a community or an economy - and whether the function of an economy is to serve the community, or just a handful.

A number of expert observers think we won't go back to business as usual. That may be a good thing. We need to think about that. For the few who see that their wealth and influence may dwindle that prospect is awful. They will being urging others to expose themselves to risks they will not be exposed to.

In World War 1 the advent of machinery in warfare hadn't sunk into the minds of military leaders who sent thousands of men to their deaths on a daily basis while camping out behind the lines. Something had fundamentally changed about how wars would be fought, but those who were leaders did not know it and did not get it.

This may be a similar kind of situation.
Oh good post. Your song for the day:
 
https://www.upi.com/Science_News/20...rus-moves-through-the-air/9751586271775/?sl=7

Scientists struggle to explain how coronavirus moves through the air​
...​
Some recent lab experiments -- detailed in the New England Journal of Medicine -- suggest that viral particles can remain in the air for several hours.​
...​
Studies of the real-world spread of the virus suggest COVID-19 can spread rapidly on cruise ships, even with passengers quarantined in their rooms.​
...​
Chen's research suggests the potential for virus particles to travel through ventilation systems and circulate inside small, enclosed spaces makes some environs riskier than others.​
...​
"We know that 60 people can be in a room at choir practice, with no one displaying obvious symptoms, and 45 people can get sick," Wilke told UPI, referring to news out of Washington state.​
"We don't have to understand how it happened, we know that happened. On the other hand, when people isolate in apartment buildings in Italy, they appear to be safe," he said.​
...​
However, it's unlikely that mechanistic studies ever will pin down precisely how COVID-19 spreads. After decades of research, scientists still are arguing about how the flu is transmitted.​
 
Anyone interested in measuring excess deaths due to covid-19 here is one measure: unclaimed bodies have increased in New York City from 25-33 per week to over 100 per week.

https://reason.com/2020/04/10/no-nyc-is-not-running-out-of-burial-space-due-to-covid-19/

"Since 1869, prison labor has been used to bury unclaimed and unidentified New Yorkers in mass graves of 150 adults or 1000 infants," states the Hart Island Project website. Families of those buried there were only allowed to start visiting in 2014.​
"Since 1980, 68,955 people have been buried in mass graves on Hart Island," notes the Project, which is dedicated to telling stories of those laid to rest there.​
That's around 1,724 people per year, 33 per week, or a little under five per day for the past 40 years. New York City Department of Corrections spokesman Jason Kersten puts the average a little lower, telling Reuters that prison laborers bury around 25 bodies on Hart Island each week.​
Kersten now estimates that there are upwards of a hundred coffins per week being buried there. So, yes, there appears to be a recent spike in burials in these mass graves. But that's not because there are so many dead that the city has run out of burial space elsewhere. It's because more people are dying right now, and that includes people who don't have anyone to claim their bodies.​
 
EXACTLY what I called for yesterday, Trump did today. EXACTLY.

He announced that he was forming a council and that he would announce it more formally on Tuesday (April 14th). That the council will advise as to the game plan for opening up - and he listed many of the considerations, including location by location adjustments based on that locality's actual reality moment by moment while the opening up process is occurring - so much of what I stated in my post, yesterday.

But he did the most important thing he could do. He pre-established his responsibility for the calls he will be making, including the initial call.

And he pre-established that role as a true, leadership role and the toughest decision he ever faced (stated that several times today).

Thank You, President Trump.
 
Anyone interested in measuring excess deaths due to covid-19 here is one measure: unclaimed bodies have increased in New York City from 25-33 per week to over 100 per week.

https://reason.com/2020/04/10/no-nyc-is-not-running-out-of-burial-space-due-to-covid-19/

"Since 1869, prison labor has been used to bury unclaimed and unidentified New Yorkers in mass graves of 150 adults or 1000 infants," states the Hart Island Project website. Families of those buried there were only allowed to start visiting in 2014.​
"Since 1980, 68,955 people have been buried in mass graves on Hart Island," notes the Project, which is dedicated to telling stories of those laid to rest there.​
That's around 1,724 people per year, 33 per week, or a little under five per day for the past 40 years. New York City Department of Corrections spokesman Jason Kersten puts the average a little lower, telling Reuters that prison laborers bury around 25 bodies on Hart Island each week.​
Kersten now estimates that there are upwards of a hundred coffins per week being buried there. So, yes, there appears to be a recent spike in burials in these mass graves. But that's not because there are so many dead that the city has run out of burial space elsewhere. It's because more people are dying right now, and that includes people who don't have anyone to claim their bodies.​
ugh. I heard on the news N.Y. was burying them in the park. wth..
 
Anyone interested in measuring excess deaths due to covid-19 here is one measure: unclaimed bodies have increased in New York City from 25-33 per week to over 100 per week.

https://reason.com/2020/04/10/no-nyc-is-not-running-out-of-burial-space-due-to-covid-19/

"Since 1869, prison labor has been used to bury unclaimed and unidentified New Yorkers in mass graves of 150 adults or 1000 infants," states the Hart Island Project website. Families of those buried there were only allowed to start visiting in 2014.​
"Since 1980, 68,955 people have been buried in mass graves on Hart Island," notes the Project, which is dedicated to telling stories of those laid to rest there.​
That's around 1,724 people per year, 33 per week, or a little under five per day for the past 40 years. New York City Department of Corrections spokesman Jason Kersten puts the average a little lower, telling Reuters that prison laborers bury around 25 bodies on Hart Island each week.​
Kersten now estimates that there are upwards of a hundred coffins per week being buried there. So, yes, there appears to be a recent spike in burials in these mass graves. But that's not because there are so many dead that the city has run out of burial space elsewhere. It's because more people are dying right now, and that includes people who don't have anyone to claim their bodies.​
Ahh yes, what is the actual death rate? The only figures published are those where the cause of death is certified as Covid 19 - and its not like there are the resources to expend on autopsies. Only after can there be an assessment of the difference between the normal death rate and the Covid 19 influence - and then a guess about the cause of the difference.
 
EXACTLY what I called for yesterday, Trump did today. EXACTLY.

He announced that he was forming a council and that he would announce it more formally on Tuesday (April 14th). That the council will advise as to the game plan for opening up - and he listed many of the considerations, including location by location adjustments based on that locality's actual reality moment by moment while the opening up process is occurring - so much of what I stated in my post, yesterday.

But he did the most important thing he could do. He pre-established his responsibility for the calls he will be making, including the initial call.

And he pre-established that role as a true, leadership role and the toughest decision he ever faced (stated that several times today).

Thank You, President Trump.
EXACTLY what I called for yesterday, Trump did today. EXACTLY.

He announced that he was forming a council and that he would announce it more formally on Tuesday (April 14th). That the council will advise as to the game plan for opening up - and he listed many of the considerations, including location by location adjustments based on that locality's actual reality moment by moment while the opening up process is occurring - so much of what I stated in my post, yesterday.

But he did the most important thing he could do. He pre-established his responsibility for the calls he will be making, including the initial call.

And he pre-established that role as a true, leadership role and the toughest decision he ever faced (stated that several times today).

Thank You, President Trump.
EXACTLY what I called for yesterday, Trump did today. EXACTLY.

He announced that he was forming a council and that he would announce it more formally on Tuesday (April 14th). That the council will advise as to the game plan for opening up - and he listed many of the considerations, including location by location adjustments based on that locality's actual reality moment by moment while the opening up process is occurring - so much of what I stated in my post, yesterday.

But he did the most important thing he could do. He pre-established his responsibility for the calls he will be making, including the initial call.

And he pre-established that role as a true, leadership role and the toughest decision he ever faced (stated that several times today).

Thank You, President Trump.
Okay Sam, you have way more faith in your president than I do. Forming a council is one thing. Who will be on it is another. That then leads to the question as to whether this council would be competent to serve in the public interest. I hope for your sake your faith is not misplaced.
 
only after can there be an assessment of the difference between the normal death rate and the Covid 19 influence - and then a guess about the cause of the difference.
Indeed.

Alarm sounded over rise in non-coronavirus deaths in Scotland
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...er-rise-in-non-coronavirus-deaths-in-scotland

UK government concerned over deaths that could be caused by Covid lockdown
https://www.ft.com/content/8027d913-2e2f-4d4c-93db-89bd726105f0

One leaked UK government projection says there could be an extra 150 000 non-covid deaths due to lockdown. Anyway, where I am, I think it may have been illegal for me to post this.
 
Okay Sam, you have way more faith in your president than I do. Forming a council is one thing. Who will be on it is another. That then leads to the question as to whether this council would be competent to serve in the public interest. I hope for your sake your faith is not misplaced.
It is scheduled to be announced Tuesday. And in that announcement will be an announcement of the participants. State governors, maybe some mayors, medical officials, private sector representatives, Mnuchin, Pence, Ivanka Trump... and maybe Mark Cuban... but this is EXACTLY as I called for immediately. So I am glad Trump reads Skeptiko and my posts. The world is a much better place that he has done so. :)
 
Ahh yes, what is the actual death rate? The only figures published are those where the cause of death is certified as Covid 19 - and its not like there are the resources to expend on autopsies. Only after can there be an assessment of the difference between the normal death rate and the Covid 19 influence - and then a guess about the cause of the difference.
Note: the death rate attributed to COVID-19 is artificially inflated... at least here in the US.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bi...avirus-as-covid-19-deaths-regardless-of-cause

Want to know, in part, why?

https://www.foxnews.com/media/physician-blasts-cdc-coronavirus-death-count-guidelines

The government gets paid MORE if the death is designated as being caused by COVID-19!

Watch the video.
 
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