Coronavirus Pandemic

Testing for the antibodies would be a much more definitive way of testing. Even Kerry Mullis the inventor of PCR stated that it cannot detect free infectious viruses at all.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Surely PCR amplifies fragments of RNA or DNA - not proteins as such, although the RNA/DNA might code for a protein. I also thought that the PCR process follows a step that breaks into the virus to expose its genetic material.

David
 
I agree, we have a big China problem in Australia as do many other countries but China is our biggest trade partner. They have been buying up infrastructure and real estate for years. Buying our goods and selling them marked up in the homeland. They buy our water when we are in drought leaving farmers suffering. Yet it is our greedy corrupt politicians that are complicit and filling their pockets. Thankfully there are some who are now raising the issue of the China problem. There appears to me to be some backlash over all this.

If any good can come of this it will be an awakening to these underhanded tactics they employ. As well as the shaken credibility of the WHO.

I think we are at a crossroads if people actual reject what may eventually come down the pipeline to stifle personal freedom we will strike a blow and will be empowered. If we are silent or have our heads in the sand (calling everything a conspiracy lol) we will consent by default and pave the way to technocratic tyranny. And I don't have the means to move to another planet. :)
I don't see how any of that can be dismissed as a conspiracy theory. It's right there in front of our noses. The facts are known. There is no connecting of vague dots, third degree of association games or any of the other classic elements of conspiracy theorizing.

China is a brutal socialist dictatorship that has no regard for individual rights. They have a lock on our economies and we can easily see and enumerate the ways in which they do.

The only thing stopping us from bringing it into the light of day and doing something about it, is that it is too frightening for many to admit how bad it has become and how painful it would be to un-f**k this situation.

The only recourse for the timid is to deny that China has hostile intents based on the victory of the Han over the barbarians (that's you and me).
 
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Yup it’s all a Trotskyite, (discerningly PC) Bolshevik, Cultural Marxist, Satanic, Paedophile, Cannibalistic, and Thoroughly Unpleasant Plot that is total opposed to the Heavenly Christian path of Robust Capitalism! As was foretold in the Book of Albert.
I assume this post is sarcasm.

So to bring in what I perceive to be a more fully encompassing "picture" (instead of the polar, either/or picture sarcastically presented) - And that is the "saner" ground which is quietly (and perhaps "too quietly") significant in heart, if not numbers, and which is (IMO) needed, at this time, more than ever to make a difference - if it can... - "voicing" as some of us do... like posts here on this forum and, in my case, discussions I have with family and the few friends I have which, I perceive as minimally toxic or not toxic at all (knowing I am certainly not perfectly free of coming across as toxic)... is there still room on this planet to make a difference via civil presentation of views, opinions, arguments? We shall see... perhaps sooner than later.
 
Question to LoneShaman. - But first, I have to admit my memory is not so good, In addition, my lack of experience in technical matters related to the posts you and David and (maybe) others with regards to identification of and management of "this virus" (as well as viruses in general) is important to admit as you, or information you have already posted may have already answered my question.

The Question - Is it possible that the virus could still appear as "likely naturally occurring" - meaning that what we think we know about viruses and specifically coronaviruses suggests that COVID-19 possibly came forth naturally. To further state... based on what I heard "Dr." Fauci state yesterday (Friday, April 17, 2020) is essentially that [paraphrasing] - "the jump from animal to human is totally consistent with naturally occurring jumps."

Is it possible that experimentation with these viruses could "catalyze" such jumps? It seems I have heard this and it seems I may have already read this being addressed in your posts (and/or the sources you cited). I ask this because I recall hearing that "experiments like this" were being conducted in the US to try and create "super-bugs" for the purpose of further research as to treatments, possibly vaccines, etc... based on a belief that by doing this, "we" could get a jump on a possible "real" super-bug type mutation that can jump - and that China was also pursuing this in part due to a desire to compete with (or be better than) the US (as if that should be important but that's another debate entirely).

And so the question more specifically is - if the virus appears that it could have come forth naturally, but that it may have been catalyzed by such research - wouldn't that be the same thing as intentional creation of "that which could function as a biological weapon?" And if so, can that type of "catalyzation" be proven? Even if it can't be proven by analyzing this particular virus, I assume that if this type of experimentation was being done... someone would know, yes?

And so to wrap this post up... and I hope you will reply to each significant question or assumption I have posited, LS, if "someone" knows and the one or more someone's are (or were) functioning in China, I think its safe to assume they will never be available to "testify." But if this same research (as I recall reading) has been done in the US and the teams doing the research/experimentation were made up of international researchers... like has been suggested with regards to "the bat lady" then who is responsible here in the US for a.) this research to be occurring and b.) that it wasn't highly classified/protected research methodology and c.) funding this type of research and if that is congress, who, in congress is responsible for the oversight and funding?

Seems to me there's a huge number of additional layers to peel on this onion.
 
Question to LoneShaman. - But first, I have to admit my memory is not so good, In addition, my lack of experience in technical matters related to the posts you and David and (maybe) others with regards to identification of and management of "this virus" (as well as viruses in general) is important to admit as you, or information you have already posted may have already answered my question.

The Question - Is it possible that the virus could still appear as "likely naturally occurring" - meaning that what we think we know about viruses and specifically coronaviruses suggests that COVID-19 possibly came forth naturally. To further state... based on what I heard "Dr." Fauci state yesterday (Friday, April 17, 2020) is essentially that [paraphrasing] - "the jump from animal to human is totally consistent with naturally occurring jumps."
I don't think Fox news is following the idea that this was actually a deliberate mistake - more that there was a Chinese lab fooling about with the bat virus, and a human got infected. This is very dangerous because if the human was also infected with coronavirus, this could result in combinations of the human coronavirus with the bat virus - which might be able to spread easily among humans.

I think the real blame being directed at China is that:
a) The lab studying the bat virus was not secure enough.

b) China made a huge effort to cover up what had happened, including blaming the Wuhan market, which apparently did not even sell bats for consumption.
Is it possible that experimentation with these viruses could "catalyze" such jumps?
Possibly the biggest catalysing action here was that going to a bat cave and collecting virus samples that were then grown in a lab in insecure conditions made it possible for this virus to infect a human as discussed above.
It seems I have heard this and it seems I may have already read this being addressed in your posts (and/or the sources you cited). I ask this because I recall hearing that "experiments like this" were being conducted in the US to try and create "super-bugs" for the purpose of further research as to treatments, possibly vaccines, etc... based on a belief that by doing this, "we" could get a jump on a possible "real" super-bug type mutation that can jump - and that China was also pursuing this in part due to a desire to compete with (or be better than) the US (as if that should be important but that's another debate entirely).

And so the question more specifically is - if the virus appears that it could have come forth naturally, but that it may have been catalyzed by such research - wouldn't that be the same thing as intentional creation of "that which could function as a biological weapon?" And if so, can that type of "catalyzation" be proven? Even if it can't be proven by analyzing this particular virus, I assume that if this type of experimentation was being done... someone would know, yes?
From my perspective, just collecting this virus and growing it in insecure conditions which let someone be infected is the crime. I hope this type of research will be banned worldwide.

I dare say you could catalyse something deliberately by culturing the virus together with a human corona virus, and even testing the results on human beings, all of whom would have to be killed after the experiment was concluded, to prevent a spread. You could probably also genetically splice the genes together, but I imagine you would still need to test the result on humans.
And so to wrap this post up... and I hope you will reply to each significant question or assumption I have posited, LS, if "someone" knows and the one or more someone's are (or were) functioning in China, I think its safe to assume they will never be available to "testify." But if this same research (as I recall reading) has been done in the US and the teams doing the research/experimentation were made up of international researchers... like has been suggested with regards to "the bat lady" then who is responsible here in the US for a.) this research to be occurring and b.) that it wasn't highly classified/protected research methodology and c.) funding this type of research and if that is congress, who, in congress is responsible for the oversight and funding?

Seems to me there's a huge number of additional layers to peel on this onion.
I am not clear whether it would be possible to prove deliberate creation of a hybrid virus. I suppose if the genome were found to contain some residue left by common gene splicing techniques, that might be close to proof, but as far I can see all you have is a sequence of RNA bases - so that proof might be weak or strong depending on the length of the residue string in question.

David
 
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Thanks, David.

Interestingly, I just stumbled upon this article -

Chinese Coronavirus Is a Man Made Virus According to Luc Montagnier the Man Who Discovered HIV

By Robert Miller | Published on April 16, 2020
Reviewed By Gilmore Health | On: April 18, 2020

Contrary to the narrative that is being pushed by the mainstream that the COVID 19 virus was the result of a natural mutation and that it was transmitted to humans from bats via pangolins, Dr Luc Montagnier the man who discovered the HIV virus back in 1983 disagrees and is saying that the virus was man made.


Dr Luc Montagnier Image Courtesy of Prolineserver

Professor Luc Montagnier, 2008 Nobel Prize winner for Medicine, claims that SARS-CoV-2 is a manipulated virus that was accidentally released from a laboratory in Wuhan, China. Chinese researchers are said to have used coronaviruses in their work to develop an AIDS vaccine. HIV RNA fragments are believed to have been found in the SARS-CoV-2 genome.

We knew that the Chinese version of how the coronavirus emerged was increasingly under attack, but here’s a thesis that tells a completely different story about the Covid-19 pandemic, which is already responsible for more than 110,000 deaths worldwide. According to Professor Luc Montagnier, winner of the Nobel Prize for Medicine in 2008 for “discovering” HIV as the cause of the AIDS epidemic together with Françoise Barré-Sinoussi, the SARS-CoV-2 is a virus that was manipulated and accidentally released from a laboratory in Wuhan, China, in the last quarter of 2019. According to Professor Montagnier, this laboratory, known for its work on coronaviruses, tried to use one of these viruses as a vector for HIV in the search for an AIDS vaccine!

“With my colleague, bio-mathematician Jean-Claude Perez, we carefully analyzed the description of the genome of this RNA virus,” explains Luc Montagnier, interviewed by Dr Jean-François Lemoine for the daily podcast at Pourquoi Docteur, adding that others have already explored this avenue: Indian researchers have already tried to publish the results of the analyses that showed that this coronavirus genome contained sequences of another virus, … the HIV virus (AIDS virus), but they were forced to withdraw their findings as the pressure from the mainstream was too great.

To insert an HIV sequence into this genome requires molecular tools

In a challenging question Dr Jean-François Lemoine inferred that the coronavirus under investigation may have come from a patient who is otherwise infected with HIV. No, “says Luc Montagnier,” in order to insert an HIV sequence into this genome, molecular tools are needed, and that can only be done in a laboratory.

According to the 2008 Nobel Prize for Medicine, a plausible explanation would be an accident in the Wuhan laboratory. He also added that the purpose of this work was the search for an AIDS vaccine.

The truth will eventually come out

In any case, this thesis, defended by Professor Luc Montagnier, has a positive turn. According to him, the altered elements of this virus are eliminated as it spreads: “Nature does not accept any molecular tinkering, it will eliminate these unnatural changes and even if nothing is done, things will get better, but unfortunately after many deaths.” Luc Montagnier added that with the help of interfering waves, we could eliminate these sequences and as a result stop the pandemic.

This is enough to feed some heated debates! So much so that Professor Montagnier’s statements could also place him in the category of “conspiracy theorists”: “Conspirators are the opposite camp, hiding the truth,” he replies, without wanting to accuse anyone, but hoping that the Chinese will admit to what he believes happened in their laboratory.

To entice a confession from the Chinese he used the example of Iran which after taking full responsibility for accidentally hitting a Ukrainian plane was able to earn the respect of the global community. Hopefully the Chinese will do the right thing he ads. “In any case, the truth always comes out, it is up to the Chinese government to take responsibility.”
 
So considering the above posted article... if the virus disappears fast (as suggested "as possible" if the article's assertions are true), then that raises the odds the primary assertion of the article may be true - that for the specific "HIV RNA fragments are believed to have been found in the SARS-CoV-2 genome [the actual name for COVID-19] and thus implying [man made] "molecular tools are needed, and that can only be done in a laboratory."

Sadly, the entire global economy will be decimated before this "data point" can be assessed, if it occurs.
 
Meanwhile, people across the world are getting angrier and angrier at the global panic and the resulting lockdown.

And the manifestations of their anger are becoming more and more... physical.

Like the American protestors wielding assalt rifles. Well, of course, they didn't use them; neither, I think, they ever intended to put them into an actual usage. Wielding weapons is a kind of tradition among many Americans, a (relatively) symbolic act of defiance of goverment control, a reminder to the totalitarian wannabes on the top that the public still have some power in their own hands, quite literally so (that's why government-worshippers from Democratic party and their ilk hate the gun-wielding rights with such fiery passion).

Yet, anger is becoming physical beyond the USA as well. And its physicality becomes more and more... active. Like in this recent case from Italy.

And I suspect this is just the beginning.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Surely PCR amplifies fragments of RNA or DNA - not proteins as such, although the RNA/DNA might code for a protein. I also thought that the PCR process follows a step that breaks into the virus to expose its genetic material.

David
Hi Dave, I managed to find Kerry Mullis's statement that I was referring to, at least one instance of it as it refers to HIV.

“Quantitative PCR is an oxymoron.” PCR is intended to identify substances qualitatively, but by its very nature is unsuited for estimating numbers. Although there is a common misimpression that the viral-load tests actually count the number of viruses in the blood, these tests cannot detect free, infectious viruses at all; they can only detect proteins that are believed, in some cases wrongly, to be unique to HIV. The tests can detect genetic sequences of viruses, but not viruses themselves [(29), p. 3].

I may be wrong but I was assuming the protein was the product of the infected cell. The virus communicates with the cell and changes it the products of the cell are also changed. This was just my assumption.

I have been doing a lot of reading into virology and germ theory lately. You know, my good ol OCD never rests.

Anyway the more I have found out the more I realize how tentative a lot of this stuff is. What I thought was quite well established and is presented and taught as such has some rather shaky foundations. The basic germ theory being one for a start. So a lot of what I thought I knew is now in question. So I can't give any definitive answers.

I believe another way to say it is the PCR process matches genetic fragments of the virus that have been selected to be attributed to that virus. Except samples can be heavily diluted, the fragments may match other sequences in the vast range of human viral DNA or even other related viruses.
Once again don't take this as gospel. I have been absorbing a tonne of information and may have mixed a few things up.

The issue I have is how we accurately know the true genetic identity, apparently very few virus if any have actually been truly isolated to the gold standard. This seems to be also because of the germ theory. As you can't separate a virus from the host as in the koch postulates to grow in a pure culture. Sorry I only have questions regarding this not answers.

But I simply go on what the creator of the technique has said.
 
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The Question - Is it possible that the virus could still appear as "likely naturally occurring" - meaning that what we think we know about viruses and specifically coronaviruses suggests that COVID-19 possibly came forth naturally. To further state... based on what I heard "Dr." Fauci state yesterday (Friday, April 17, 2020) is essentially that [paraphrasing] - "the jump from animal to human is totally consistent with naturally occurring jumps."
Please don't take any of this as fact, as I mentioned the more I have found out the more uncertain about things I have become even at a very fundamental level. I am assuming that you mean that it could be engineered and simply appear to be natural?

As far as what I know, the difference with other coronaviruses of that clade is the furin cleavage that has been mentioned. The authors of that paper refereed to it as a case of convergent evolution. As some other varieties will have this feature but no direct common ancestor. This could be the result of recombination, this does occur naturally. Sometimes recombination events can be tracked using larger databases of viruses and computer software to sift though to find the links that point to where one may have crossed with the other. So it would a chimera but a natural one. Although as far as I know the recombination event has not been tracked. So...? It would also leave us with many extraordinary coincidences. There is still a lot of smoke surrounding this issue.

Is it possible that experimentation with these viruses could "catalyze" such jumps? It seems I have heard this and it seems I may have already read this being addressed in your posts (and/or the sources you cited). I ask this because I recall hearing that "experiments like this" were being conducted in the US to try and create "super-bugs" for the purpose of further research as to treatments, possibly vaccines, etc... based on a belief that by doing this, "we" could get a jump on a possible "real" super-bug type mutation that can jump - and that China was also pursuing this in part due to a desire to compete with (or be better than) the US (as if that should be important but that's another debate entirely).

And so the question more specifically is - if the virus appears that it could have come forth naturally, but that it may have been catalyzed by such research - wouldn't that be the same thing as intentional creation of "that which could function as a biological weapon?" And if so, can that type of "catalyzation" be proven? Even if it can't be proven by analyzing this particular virus, I assume that if this type of experimentation was being done... someone would know, yes?
I imagine it could be possible to produce a natural recombination in the lab. But the more I have looked plus the obvious fact that this virus as virulent as it is, is still pretty wussy to what would be expected of a bio weapon. I am leaning toward being natural and being an accident. But hey that may change as we get more info. (You seem to have added some suggesting otherwise that I'll have to check out.) But really unless it has dormant qualities it is a pretty weak effect given the low fatality rate.

With all I have found out so far I am a little skeptical of definitive claims of identification. Like I said a lot of what I thought I knew has been thrown into the air. But I am only a layman.

Virus are a crucial part of our adaptation to the environment. They are pieces of genetic information to trigger and interact with our immune system to make it more resilient. Vaccination denies this natural strength and will make you more prone to other conditions. This war against viruses and bacteria is the wrong approach, we have a symbiotic relationship with them, they are crucial, there would be no life without them.
 
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Thanks LS... and just for the record - It is my greatest hope that this was all and only an accident and that the virus was "natural." That difference could be the difference between war and severe penalty.

But I will add another important factor in the matter... and that is the fact that until the US is free of need of essentials that come from China, the way the US may play it, and thus the information and "conclusions" the investigations "make" may be nothing but spin to prevent the potential for a worse outcome than otherwise desired. Sadly, I am speaking US-centric but it appears the US is leading the charge with regards to many Western nations (excluding Australia and New Zealand... understandably as both are in China's back yard).

But also note that just two days ago, the following information was released in a relatively low key way -

China may have conducted low-level nuclear test, US claims

State Department report points to activities at China’s Lop Nur test site last year, though it does not have proof.

The US state department has claimed China may have secretly conducted a low-yield underground nuclear test, in an accusation likely to further inflame already poor relations between Washington and Beijing.

A report on arms control compliance does not offer proof, but points to circumstantial evidence, of excavations and other stepped-up activity at China’s Lop Nur test site.

“China’s possible preparation to operate its Lop Nur test site year-round, its use of explosive containment chambers, extensive excavation activities at Lop Nur and a lack of transparency on its nuclear testing activities ... raise concerns regarding its adherence to the zero yield standard,” the state department report, first revealed by the Wall Street Journal, said.

Both the US and China signed the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT), concluded in 1996, but neither country has ratified it, and – partly as a result – the agreement has not come into force. However, China has sworn to adhere to CTBT terms and the US has been observing a moratorium on nuclear testing.

If the treaty were in force, it would include a mechanism for on-site inspections of suspect sites.

end of what I pasted...

COMMENT: Whether true or not isn't as important as the signal sent by producing this "report."
 
We should all be talking about it.

IMO China will pay for this, but the public will never know how or why.
I would like to like this if for the sheer reason of justice existing.
But the crime is not that something relatively ineffective was "let out".
The crime is the perpetuating of the unjustified reaction.

Life is war sometimes. So if I have an infantry guy who is afraid of being hit and hides away from his duty (to live and be free) then he is not much use in my war. His reaction to something which is a part of war is unjustified and dangerous to the rest of us.

So, as much as I would like to see justice anywhere, I would hope we find it where it belongs.
 
I would like to like this if for the sheer reason of justice existing.
But the crime is not that something relatively ineffective was "let out".
The crime is the perpetuating of the unjustified reaction.

Life is war sometimes. So if I have an infantry guy who is afraid of being hit and hides away from his duty (to live and be free) then he is not much use in my war. His reaction to something which is a part of war is unjustified and dangerous to the rest of us.

So, as much as I would like to see justice anywhere, I would hope we find it where it belongs.
In an interconnected global world, the lines are blurred. There's plenty of culpability to go around and the Chinese definitely own their share.

Internally, the globalist enemies of a large swath of citizens known as "deplorables" and "bitter clingers", will probably escape justice for the time being. That is too bad. I think we are just going to have to kill them all one of these days or have our way of life perish and our souls be crushed down. They're forcing the issue. Maybe they can run and hide in China. That would be better than the civil war.
 
It is not the virus that causes the disease it is the terrain, the interaction with persons biochemistry. This is why all these people had the antibodies but never had any symptoms. The germ theory is incomplete it paints the picture of organisms as sitting ducks just waiting to be infected whenever a virus or bacteria is encountered. Yet we are full of viruses both endogenous and environmental. Just because you are exposed does not immediately mean you will become sick. So why is it that? That is where the germ theory fails. Yet all of these measures we face are based on this dogma.
I think this is an interesting concept, but I'd suggest you create another thread to talk about this, because there are people here who seem to think that this thread should be reduced to simply echoing government statements about the lockdown - everything else is somehow irresponsible :)

David
 
In an interconnected global world, the lines are blurred. There's plenty of culpability to go around and the Chinese definitely own their share.

Internally, the globalist enemies of a large swath of citizens known as "deplorables" and "bitter clingers", will probably escape justice for the time being. That is too bad. I think we are just going to have to kill them all one of these days or have our way of life perish and our souls be crushed down. They're forcing the issue. Maybe they can run and hide in China. That would be better than the civil war.
Let the games begin... just remember as with all action in life, this is a game.

Thank you.

Addendum (opinion or point of view)
How to play and win?
Or, at our level of incompetence, how to lose without making the opposition wrong for winning?

Why? WHAT???!!!

Well, as spirit is non-local, if spirit is to remain free, spirit should not localize itself from the opposition.
It is actually a natural law, spirit can not be wrong. Impossible.
So, it can be seen that the way spirit limits its freedom (traps itself) is by assigning "wrong" to some section of the field (or players). Spirit can not be wrong, so that area or person assigned as being wrong then is no longer an area spirit occupies. Something occupies that area or person, but you can not. Do this to enough times and places and persons, and you'll eventually sense a being trapped. The trap built by you but the responsibility for it is assigned to that which you assigned as "wrong".

You no longer own your prison. Those you have assigned as wrong own it.
And how impossible is it for you to ask those you assigned as wrong to let you be free?

Therefore, when playing a game, be able to lose gracefully. Embracing the winner.
You indeed might be the winner. Wouldn't it be nice for the loser to embrace you in appreciation at least of your participating in their game... even though they lost in their own game?


In a game as serious as right/wrong, if you don't control the field you've already lost.
You forfeit control when you leave the field. You are forced from the field when you assign it with too much wrong.
 
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If one does enough research of the field called "Emergence" it could be seen the possibility of a fresher cleaner reality coming from this coVid fiasco.

Why? How?
Because the isolation experience will be around for a while. This experience is seedling for knowing into a next realm of being social.

Example:
Grown children usually feel compelled to separate from a family unit.
Sorrowfully, some explain this nature to themselves as something wrong with the family unit from which they feel compelled to separate from. It's just a nature of the living being, but some place "reasons" to it which do not have to be.
After though, they have been away and given time to forget the reasons, they feel compelled to visit (return). The issues that existed in the unit are no longer issues.

Similarly, as individuals in society we have segregated ourselves from other segments of society. This individual isolation experience might have given us time to release the reasons for segregating and open windows of willingness to be with other segments.

In other words, the isolation experience is a less favorable experience to the experience of being with others who we previously felt we rather not be with.

This is an idea I propose.
Because emergence WILL continue (emergence or morphing or coming to be or whatever other expression of a new thing emerging) because emergence will continue, it is possible what emerges from this could be something better than what was.
 
I assume this post is sarcasm.
Yes and don't take it too seriously. It's not even original. That said, I see Eric's claim that Michael stomped off owing to a socialism infection he picked up as an Australian civil servant to be at least as ridiculous as my post. I would also draw attention to the fact that social-democratic Sweden is taking one of the world's most libertine lines on the current crisis. Just saying.

Here's another great update (18th) on https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/#latest
 
Let the games begin... just remember as with all action in life, this is a game.

Thank you.

Addendum
How to play and win?
Or, at our level of incompetence, how to lose without making the opposition wrong for winning?

Why? WHAT???!!!

Well, as spirit is non-local, if spirit is to remain free, spirit should not localize itself from the opposition.
It is actually a natural law, spirit can not be wrong. Impossible.
So, it can be seen that the way spirit limits its freedom (traps itself) is by assigning "wrong" to some section of the field (or players). Spirit can not be wrong, so that area or person assigned as being wrong then is no longer an area spirit occupies. Something occupies that area or person, but you can not. Do this to enough times and places and persons, and you'll eventually sense a being trapped. The trap built by you but the responsibility for it is assigned to that which you assigned as "wrong".

You no longer own your prison. Those you have assigned as wrong own it.
And how impossible is it for you to ask those you assigned as wrong to let you be free?

Therefore, when playing a game, be able to lose gracefully. Embracing the winner.
You indeed might be the winner. Wouldn't it be nice for the loser to embrace you in appreciation at least of your participating in their game... even though they lost in their own game?


In a game as serious as right/wrong, if you don't control the field you've already lost.
You forfeit control when you leave the field. You are forced from the field when you assign it with too much wrong.
I don't exactly see it that way, Christopher of Thailand.

It gets back to the discussion of good and evil that Alex has been delving into.

IMO, there are forces of evil that are also spiritual and there is no compromise with them. Yes. in the long run, we can chose and we can be free, perhaps if only on the other side of sky. But the suffering that evil wants to cause on this side is real. What the globalists want is to harness us and crush our souls for their benefit. We are their cattle and the life of cattle is not good. I don't know if violence is the right answer. Perhaps something more Ghandi-like is in order; maybe that would work better for all of the non-physical fighters; which are the majority. Either way, we either stand up now, or be forever lost in this world.
 
I don't exactly see it that way, Christopher of Thailand.

It gets back to the discussion of good and evil that Alex has been delving into.

IMO, there are forces of evil that are also spiritual and there is no compromise with them. Yes. in the long run, we can chose and we can be free, perhaps if only on the other side of sky. But the suffering that evil wants to cause on this side is real. What the globalists want is to harness us and crush our souls for their benefit. We are their cattle and the life of cattle is not good. I don't know if violence is the right answer. Perhaps something more Ghandi-like is in order; maybe that would work better for all of the non-physical fighters; which are the majority. Either way, we either stand up now, or be forever lost in this world.
IMO everyone would benefit from reading and absorbing Eric Newhill's post I just quoted. It is down to this... a battle to crush your soul and make you and your progeny soul-less and/or soul-imprisoned slaves meant to serve the global elite for as long as this batch of the rest of us continues to mindlessly reproduce.

This is the most powerful and most appropriate post on this entire thread.

Thank you, Eric Newhill.
 
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