Coronavirus Pandemic

Meanwhile, censorship on the Web is getting worse day by day.

The recent act of gagging is the one of David Icke.

Well, I'm NOT this guy's fan, neither I agree with all he says (a good part of what he says is, in my view, utter nonsense). Yet I am against censoring him as well as I am against censoring anyone at all:

https://attackthesystem.com/2020/05/03/coronavirus-david-icke-kicked-off-facebook/

(Vortex who commented there is me. Do look at the further link I provided there, it is worth looking at.)
 
https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/...ating-safer-at-home-order-will-not-be-charged

Only such case in Florida so far?

Citizens lodged several complaints regarding Mr. Wood, fairly, justly or otherwise. Who knows? Law enforcement apparently asked him to comply with the stay at home orders that the VAST majority of free minded, free citizens of the USA were complying with themselves. He declined. So, he was arrested. Seems a bit over the top, yes.

What happened? Our legal system including all the rights given to citizens functioned, he had representation and the case was dropped.

Would have cost Mr. Wood and all us taxpayers a lot less if he'd simply complied. You know, like the rest of us. His choice not to, of course.

Yeah, let's just post a meme about Bezos that has nothing, whatever, to do with the situation, but if its fits the narrative huh?
 
Based on the WHO being put into the spotlight with this, including censorship growing to make it so anything against WHO's guidelines is being censored (god forbid people take vitamin C!), I put on my investigative journalist hat and dug in.

I wrote articles but then compiled my findings into a free PDF. I share it here for anyone that is interested.
http://loganchristopher.com/who/

Everything is referenced as I feel that's required in today's information ecology. Don't take my word for it, look for yourself.
 
https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/...ating-safer-at-home-order-will-not-be-charged

Only such case in Florida so far?

Citizens lodged several complaints regarding Mr. Wood, fairly, justly or otherwise. Who knows? Law enforcement apparently asked him to comply with the stay at home orders that the VAST majority of free minded, free citizens of the USA were complying with themselves. He declined. So, he was arrested. Seems a bit over the top, yes.

What happened? Our legal system including all the rights given to citizens functioned, he had representation and the case was dropped.

Would have cost Mr. Wood and all us taxpayers a lot less if he'd simply complied. You know, like the rest of us. His choice not to, of course.

Yeah, let's just post a meme about Bezos that has nothing, whatever, to do with the situation, but if its fits the narrative huh?
"Free minded???!!!???"

"Just comply"???!!!???

Like good stupid sheep huh. Compliance = free mindedness?

Congratulations! You win the Orwell 1984 trophy for this month.

Because science! I suppose.

Now show me the "science" that says staying at home is the healthy path.

While you're at it, show me the the law that says the government has the right to shut our businesses down and put us all on house arrest.
 
"Free minded???!!!???"

"Just comply"???!!!???

Like good stupid sheep huh. Compliance = free mindedness?

Congratulations! You win the Orwell 1984 trophy for this month.

Because science! I suppose.

Now show me the "science" that says staying at home is the healthy path.

While you're at it, show me the the law that says the government has the right to shut our businesses down and put us all on house arrest.
Compliance is not an antonym of freedom Eric and, of course, you know this. But it is yet another meme I guess. Everyone's happy to have an orderly society until said order requires compliance with a rule or policy they don't support. I get it.

You show me the science that says disregarding social distancing policies is the healthy path. There is no definitive science to support either policy group's position. In this thread that has become utterly unmoored from reality, I get that's not very popular. However, that doesn't make it untrue. We're stumbling our way through this thing. I honestly hope that the virus does, indeed, turn out to be not nearly as serious as our policies have reflected. I'm even more interested in how we go about developing better preparation and science for the next viral pandemic. The scary part is how dug in folks have become based almost entirely on political viewpoints. I find that completely un-American.

You may find it surprising to know that I don't personally have a definitive position on the science as it relates to COVID-19. That's primarily because I haven't seen anything resembling "definitive". The best I can tell is the data is inadequate and that's a story line coming from all scientific corners it seems (both for and against current public policies). We may very well find out we've executed the wrong playbook here. Wouldn't be the first time in human history we've screwed the pooch.

Now, back to my post which was an attempt to bring some semblance of objectivity to this nuclear-strength echo chamber. The meme posted was beneath any serious thinking person. Let's hold ourselves to a higher standard than run of the mill Twitter soundbites.
 
Reminds me of the saying - "You are free to do as we tell you."

It really seems to boil down to either a.) an appreciation of personal freedom and respecting the same of others or b.) acting upon self hatred mixed with lying to oneself about it.

When people go the route of the latter, they back the power trippers and increasingly join them. They are the one's calling Bill De Blasio's snitch line too. They will be the ones insisting to see your papers that you've been vaccinated. When too many vaccines are pseudo-science disguised as "science" but you'll be "deplatformed" for demonstrating/proving that fact.

At least justice was done for Galen Wood - all charges were dropped (Duh!)

"He was charged with operating a non-essential business and traveling to operate a non-essential business in April. "

Its essential to feed one's family and oneself so the DA realized the state would lose the case for arresting him for a law that isn't even on the books and if it were, Wood would win as his reasons for being open are essential to his and his family's health and well being. (Duh!)
 
Compliance is not an antonym of freedom Eric and, of course, you know this. But it is yet another meme I guess. Everyone's happy to have an orderly society until said order requires compliance with a rule or policy they don't support. I get it.

You show me the science that says disregarding social distancing policies is the healthy path. There is no definitive science to support either policy group's position. In this thread that has become utterly unmoored from reality, I get that's not very popular. However, that doesn't make it untrue. We're stumbling our way through this thing. I honestly hope that the virus does, indeed, turn out to be not nearly as serious as our policies have reflected. I'm even more interested in how we go about developing better preparation and science for the next viral pandemic. The scary part is how dug in folks have become based almost entirely on political viewpoints. I find that completely un-American.

You may find it surprising to know that I don't personally have a definitive position on the science as it relates to COVID-19. That's primarily because I haven't seen anything resembling "definitive". The best I can tell is the data is inadequate and that's a story line coming from all scientific corners it seems (both for and against current public policies). We may very well find out we've executed the wrong playbook here. Wouldn't be the first time in human history we've screwed the pooch.

Now, back to my post which was an attempt to bring some semblance of objectivity to this nuclear-strength echo chamber. The meme posted was beneath any serious thinking person. Let's hold ourselves to a higher standard than run of the mill Twitter soundbites.
What a bunch of mealy mouthed blather.

You act as if the only question here is if covid is going to kill us and how many. Well, you're wrong. Economic destruction also kills. Inability to access healthcare kills and is killing many people. Perhaps as many as covid itself. IMO, far more before this is over. That is a scientific fact that I am acutely aware of because I have been doing studies at work (Fortune 100 healthcare insurance company). Unlike most who are google researchers, I am the real thing. Psychiatric medication prescriptions are up 25% since covid/house arrest. Doctors visits and hospital visits for all kinds of acute and chronic conditions are way down - because doctors have closed their offices and because people are afraid to go into such environments. Even visits for conditions like appendicitis are down by 16%. This comes from internal studies based on millions of covered lives. There is no reason to believe that there are fewer appendicitis incidents. We can see that those are steady, per capita, over the years. If appendicitis is undiagnosed/untreated, you die. There's some of your "excess mortality" right there, but it's also diabetes, cardiovascular, tumors, etc, etc that are down. Lots of excess mortality on the way. Point being this isn't a one issue matter.

Beyond that, I am free man and I want to live or die as I chose. You don't seem to appreciate that. Live in fear and conformity if you want to, but let me live my life as I want to. Why should I let you (or the govt) dictate to me? - they're already killing people anyhow, f'ed up idiots that they are.

But yeah. Thanks for being so concerned for our safety that you force us to stay in our homes and lose our businesses and healthcare access. Take a bow. You're a real saint.
 
Last edited:
Breaking News (to Silence) - One day your body is going to die. The day after you are born, you are one day closer to the death of your body. The quality of each day you have is paramount... not how many days your meat suit continues to breath.

Breaking News - one day something is going to kill your body. Grow some nads, dude and get over it.
 
What a bunch of mealy mouthed blather.

You act as if the only question here is if covid is going to kill us and how many. Well, you're wrong. Economic destruction also kills. Inability to access healthcare kills and is killing many people. Perhaps as many as covid itself. IMO, far more before this is over. That is a scientific fact that I am acutely aware of because I have been doing studies at work (Fortune 100 healthcare insurance company). Unlike most who are google researchers, I am the real thing. Psychiatric medication prescriptions are up 25% since covid/house arrest. Doctors visits and hospital visits for all kinds of acute and chronic conditions are way down - because doctors have closed their offices and because people are afraid to go into such environments. Even visits for conditions like appendicitis are down by 16%. This comes from internal studies based on millions of covered lives. There is no reason to believe that there are fewer appendicitis incidents. We can see that those are steady, per capita, over the years. If appendicitis is undiagnosed/untreated, you die. There's some of your "excess mortality" right there, but it's also diabetes, cardiovascular, tumors, etc, etc that are down. Lots of excess mortality on the way. Point being this isn't a one issue matter.

Beyond that, I am free man and I want to live or die as I chose. You don't seem to appreciate that. Live in fear and conformity if you want to, but let me live my life as I want to. Why should I let you (or the govt) dictate to me? - they're already killing people anyhow, f'ed up idiots that they are.

But yeah. Thanks for being so concerned for our safety that you force us to stay in our homes and lose our businesses and healthcare access. Take a bow. You're a real saint.
This is what frustrates me. I don’t think many would argue that isolation decreases the incidence of infection. The issue to me is that this seems to be the only thing that most people are considering. To some, whatever epidemiologists have to say about the spread of the virus is roughly the only thing that needs to be considered and then as soon as they’ve spoken we can go ahead and set policies and regulations and generally disregard other major factors which should be given equal consideration. For some reason nobody is talking about how high death rates skyrocket when poverty goes up. When anxiety goes up. When health care is lost. Not to mention issues of civil liberties. If I were 90 years old with COPD, I’d be saying the same thing. Peoples careers and there businesses are not amoral dollars and cents. They are dreams and sources of livelihood and life itself. I would rather be dead than tear these things from millions of people.

Everybody wants what’s best for the world, well most do anyways. We have different ideas of what that looks like, but the goal is the same. I just hope we can heal rapidly.
 
You act as if the only question here is if covid is going to kill us and how many. Well, you're wrong. Economic destruction also kills. Inability to access healthcare kills and is killing many people. Perhaps as many as covid itself. IMO, far more before this is over. That is a scientific fact that I am acutely aware of because I have been doing studies at work (Fortune 100 healthcare insurance company). Unlike most who are google researchers, I am the real thing. Psychiatric medication prescriptions are up 25% since covid/house arrest. Doctors visits and hospital visits for all kinds of acute and chronic conditions are way down - because doctors have closed their offices and because people are afraid to go into such environments. Even visits for conditions like appendicitis are down by 16%. This comes from internal studies based on millions of covered lives. There is no reason to believe that there are fewer appendicitis incidents. We can see that those are steady, per capita, over the years. If appendicitis is undiagnosed/untreated, you die. There's some of your "excess mortality" right there, but it's also diabetes, cardiovascular, tumors, etc, etc that are down. Lots of excess mortality on the way. Point being this isn't a one issue matter.
Of course it isn't a one issue matter. No one is disputing that; at least here but it was a nice strawman for your to play pinata with.

I said previously I don't know what the science will tell us when this thing is all said and done. You rattled off a ton of known concerns with the policies that have been implemented; those downsides were discussed from the onset. At the decision point there was no visible path without tradeoffs. Interesting side note being that much of what you listed would have been factors in even less strict policy options as hospitals were likely to undergo some period of stress (e.g., NYC).

Beyond that, I am free man and I want to live or die as I chose. You don't seem to appreciate that. Live in fear and conformity if you want to, but let me live my life as I want to. Why should I let you (or the govt) dictate to me? - they're already killing people anyhow, f'ed up idiots that they are.
Can you read Eric or are you too interested in trying to rough me up via the internet? We're both free and living as we choose. Of course I appreciate that. However, you do let the government dictate to you whether you care to admit it or not. Taxes, laws, regulations, etc. All set and enforced by the government. You dance to the same tune as the rest of us. And its to be applauded. After all you're part of a community and its pretty standard fare to trade in some of your personal freedoms for the common good from time to time.

Did you stop flying after 9/11 to your Fortune 100 gigs? I mean the infringement on your personal rights were immense. Searching your baggage, forcing attestations, not allowing loved ones to come to the gate to see you off. Or, did that set of restrictions suit your own sensibilities?
 
Of course it isn't a one issue matter. No one is disputing that; at least here but it was a nice strawman for your to play pinata with.

I said previously I don't know what the science will tell us when this thing is all said and done. You rattled off a ton of known concerns with the policies that have been implemented; those downsides were discussed from the onset. At the decision point there was no visible path without tradeoffs. Interesting side note being that much of what you listed would have been factors in even less strict policy options as hospitals were likely to undergo some period of stress (e.g., NYC).


Can you read Eric or are you too interested in trying to rough me up via the internet? We're both free and living as we choose. Of course I appreciate that. However, you do let the government dictate to you whether you care to admit it or not. Taxes, laws, regulations, etc. All set and enforced by the government. You dance to the same tune as the rest of us. And its to be applauded. After all you're part of a community and its pretty standard fare to trade in some of your personal freedoms for the common good from time to time.

Did you stop flying after 9/11 to your Fortune 100 gigs? I mean the infringement on your personal rights were immense. Searching your baggage, forcing attestations, not allowing loved ones to come to the gate to see you off. Or, did that set of restrictions suit your own sensibilities?
Thanks, Silence.
Quite Ok degree of patience you showed there.

But this following is not in support of your restrained views.

This thing about "free", I am pretty sure the idea of "free" is based on one's own self trust. They don't have much in that regard. They compare themselves in a concept of operating against the police or a government. They have assigned themselves as not free except as the police or a government allows.
Facts don't matter to these types. Power does.

You can very easily separate the wheat from the chaff (free from the restrained) by their own attitude to themselves (their attitude within themselves) which is an area of theirs that you and I can only speculate on.

Those who believe they will not make correct decisions about some concern, set their life as dependent on others (or another). Their belief might or might not be accurate. Their distrust for themselves is enough. And facts do not matter.

I think nobody cares what they think of themselves until what they think of themselves is enforced into or on to others. They don't trust themselves in terms of competence in a certain area, so they don't trust your trust - unless you show you have enough power. Not integrity. No. Only power.

If they are faced with having to make a choice between you or say, a government or society, they chose which ever is able to effect the greatest power. Facts do not matter.
ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with whether the facts are correct or not correct. It is ONLY based on which one has power.

Therefore, addressing any facts (unless you can produce some power - an actual display of enforcement with those facts) it is pretty useless to discuss them. The facts don't matter. The power does.
The staged scenes on the internet LOOK like power to them. They cower from that.
Only heroes stand tall against it. Until death if necessary... to protect what they found to be correct facts.

The integrity weak respond ONLY to power because they can not trust themselves.
When they no longer trust themselves (in their own mind) they have already decided to trust what ever power outside would be most powerful against them.

How free one expresses himself is only a branched symptom of something slightly deeper; the number or magnitude of their regrets. Being or having become a victim can be a regret too, but mostly how often they have found themselves to have done or been wrong. Regrets.

All of this indeed does come down to control. Those trusting MORE in another or other's power to make a decision stick have little trust in their own ability to control the spaces of the concern.
They LEARNED this from pervious experiences. Experiences which only they could be aware of. The experiences which led to their regrets.

So discussion of facts when someone is regularly inventing reasons to dismiss those facts, is pretty useless.
Because the counter-power to your facts is their idealized version of that which they consider to be more powerful than you. If their ideal of the power is with someone else (police / government) they do not care anymore what's right or wrong. Because facts no longer matter.

Ha ha ha.... try to get one of them to admit that though.
They already lost their integrity a long time ago.
Do not expect honesty. Unless you have some very fantastic love and desire to be patient enough. Basically, unless you are a hero.

But how much are they worth to you? Probably as much as they are worth to themselves against any other power - very little self worth against other power. This was a learned reaction to something powerful. Facts no longer matter.
 
Last edited:
Of course it isn't a one issue matter. No one is disputing that; at least here but it was a nice strawman for your to play pinata with.

I said previously I don't know what the science will tell us when this thing is all said and done. You rattled off a ton of known concerns with the policies that have been implemented; those downsides were discussed from the onset. At the decision point there was no visible path without tradeoffs. Interesting side note being that much of what you listed would have been factors in even less strict policy options as hospitals were likely to undergo some period of stress (e.g., NYC).


Can you read Eric or are you too interested in trying to rough me up via the internet? We're both free and living as we choose. Of course I appreciate that. However, you do let the government dictate to you whether you care to admit it or not. Taxes, laws, regulations, etc. All set and enforced by the government. You dance to the same tune as the rest of us. And its to be applauded. After all you're part of a community and its pretty standard fare to trade in some of your personal freedoms for the common good from time to time.

Did you stop flying after 9/11 to your Fortune 100 gigs? I mean the infringement on your personal rights were immense. Searching your baggage, forcing attestations, not allowing loved ones to come to the gate to see you off. Or, did that set of restrictions suit your own sensibilities?
Silence,
So your argument is that since we pay taxes and have to obey traffic signs, we might as well just go full blown Chinese style totalitarian?

Excuse me if I find that less than compelling
 
Thanks, Silence.
Quite Ok degree of patience you showed there.

But this following is not in support of your restrained views.

This thing about "free", I am pretty sure the idea of "free" is based on one's own self trust. They don't have much in that regard. They compare themselves in a concept of operating against the police or a government. They have assigned themselves as not free except as the police or a government allows.
Facts don't matter to these types. Power does.

You can very easily separate the wheat from the chaff (free from the restrained) by their own attitude to themselves (their attitude within themselves) which is an area of theirs that you and I can only speculate on.

Those who believe they will not make correct decisions about some concern, set their life as dependent on others (or another). Their belief might or might not be accurate. Their distrust for themselves is enough. And facts do not matter.

I think nobody cares what they think of themselves until what they think of themselves is enforced into or on to others. They don't trust themselves in terms of competence in a certain area, so they don't trust your trust - unless you show you have enough power. Not integrity. No. Only power.

If they are faced with having to make a choice between you or say, a government or society, they chose which ever is able to effect the greatest power. Facts do not matter.
ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with whether the facts are correct or not correct. It is ONLY based on which one has power.

Therefore, addressing any facts (unless you can produce some power - an actual display of enforcement with those facts) it is pretty useless to discuss them. The facts don't matter. The power does.
The staged scenes on the internet LOOK like power to them. They cower from that.
Only heroes stand tall against it. Until death if necessary... to protect what they found to be correct facts.

The integrity weak respond ONLY to power because they can not trust themselves.
When they no longer trust themselves (in their own mind) they have already decided to trust what ever power outside would be most powerful against them.

How free one expresses himself is only a branched symptom of something slightly deeper; the number or magnitude of their regrets. Being or having become a victim can be a regret too, but mostly how often they have found themselves to have done or been wrong. Regrets.

All of this indeed does come down to control. Those trusting MORE in another or other's power to make a decision stick have little trust in their own ability to control the spaces of the concern.
They LEARNED this from pervious experiences. Experiences which only they could be aware of. The experiences which led to their regrets.

So discussion of facts when someone is regularly inventing reasons to dismiss those facts, is pretty useless.
Because the counter-power to your facts is their idealized version of that which they consider to be more powerful than you. If their ideal of the power is with someone else (police / government) they do not care anymore what's right or wrong. Because facts no longer matter.

Ha ha ha.... try to get one of them to admit that though.
They already lost their integrity a long time ago.
Do not expect honesty. Unless you have some very fantastic love and desire to be patient enough. Basically, unless you are a hero.

But how much are they worth to you? Probably as much as they are worth to themselves against any other power - very little self worth against other power. This was a learned reaction to something powerful. Facts no longer matter.
Christopher of Thailand,
Not sure I understood a single word of what you wrote.

In the USA, the idea from day 1 has been that the people, endowed with freedom by God, lend the government very limited rights, not the other way around. Once that equation gets backwards, the United States is a mere geography and not the country it was intended to be.

We are not meant to be Asian ant people where the hive is supreme over the individual, or European serfs.
 
Christopher of Thailand,
Not sure I understood a single word of what you wrote.

In the USA, the idea from day 1 has been that the people, endowed with freedom by God, lend the government very limited rights, not the other way around. Once that equation gets backwards, the United States is a mere geography and not the country it was intended to be.

We are not meant to be Asian ant people where the hive is supreme over the individual, or European serfs.
I agree with you on this Eric.
Maybe re-read what I wrote?
Supporting power for power's sake is not ok. Police / government have AND display power - they do not have proper sense (much of the time).
"Free" is self trust.
Restrained (as Silence seems to support) is leaning or depending on strengths Silence can not alone display or control.
Not even in his own mind (my opinion). He will support that which shows power first - facts probably do not matter.
 
Looks like we can call off the weekend warrior brigade and assorted militiamen of the backwoods. I know they were itching to use their grandpa's squirrel hunting rifles and prove their manhood in a spectacular fight for 'Merica, but it doesn't appear they're going to have to be called on to "liberate" us from the tyrannical forces behind the pandemic lockdown. Based on the headlines of our nation's dwindling newspapers it appears that we're opening up for business, like it or not. There will be no freedom for those who love the health and safety of themselves and their families, friends, and neighbors, but for those who want to get back to prostrating themselves before Mammon in pursuit of all those materialistic goodies and the continued defrauding of the lower and middle classes of the few scraps they've got left, they can get back to the work of accelerating America's decline and collapse from their luxury compounds in (largely socialist) New Zealand where things are safe and sound thanks to the competent leadership they enjoy.

Of course, it doesn't matter that the polls continue to show that the majority of Americans wish to continue the lockdown. When did what they want for themselves ever matter? No, best that the Fortune 100 companies dictate to us in the hoi polloi how we will live. Best keep astroturfing at the state capitol buildings to keep up the appearance that there is a vigorous desire amongst the common folks to get back to the meat packing plants to fulfill America's gnawing hunger for dinosaur-shaped chicken breast patty fritters. After all, this is the unalienable right that God Himself has granted them and who are we mere mortals to stand in their way?
 
Top