Coronavirus Pandemic

Exactly the same thing here in Spain. With practically no deaths. It's all preplanned, and it's on global scale. Portugal started imposing new restrictions, with 3 (THREE) supposed "covid" deaths. Nowhere to run, the world is a huge Guantanamo
3 deaths. Pathetic.

In the UK, I get the impression that the feeling of the public is not on the governments side with this anymore. They want their life back and are NOT happy about the new lockdowns that will take place. You can see some MSM outlets are beginning to question and criticise. And if they try and 'cancel' Christmas? Good luck to those who will try and enforce this.....
 
3 deaths. Pathetic.

In the UK, I get the impression that the feeling of the public is not on the governments side with this anymore. They want their life back and are NOT happy about the new lockdowns that will take place. You can see some MSM outlets are beginning to question and criticise. And if they try and 'cancel' Christmas? Good luck to those who will try and enforce this.....
I hope it's true, although I don't believe that civi society can do anything at this point.
Besides, all polls say Brits largely support the restrictions https://www.breitbart.com/europe/20...00-quarantine-fines-as-khan-demands-lockdown/

Yesterday Spanish Government passed a new regulation: health authorities can restrict or abolish fundamental constitutional rights. This is scary as hell. The rulers are shedding all pretence of caring about "democracy", "human rights" and some such bullshit. the masks fell down, and the diabolical grin of totalitarian sociopath appeared. All those demonstrations and peaceful protests are useless, the rulers simply don't give a shit. They just laugh, watching us scream and wave our signs on the streets They just relentlessly push foreword with their agenda. No matter how loud we scream. I wish I had more grounds for optimism, I simply don't.
 
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Well, here in the midwest of the ole U.S.A. folks are generally living more and more normalized lives every day. Sure, masks are worn by the overwhelming majority in places of high population concentrations such as grocery stores, etc. That said most folks seem to be living their lives and doing what they would be doing. As an example, my youngest is living a relatively normalized life albeit a bit different from a year ago. He's playing a team sport, we're going to his games (required to wear masks, no big deal every parent is doing it), working his job at a local car wash, hanging out with his friends, and in the new school year's hybrid structure (5 days in class every two weeks with the remaining 5 days in remote).

Its not optimal and its not sustainable indefinitely, but its world's improved from six months ago and no where near the tone of what I'm reading in this thread.

Could it be there's some sensationalism going on here? Probably not. I'm likely just a stupid sheeple.
 
Well, here in the midwest of the ole U.S.A. folks are generally living more and more normalized lives every day. Sure, masks are worn by the overwhelming majority in places of high population concentrations such as grocery stores, etc. That said most folks seem to be living their lives and doing what they would be doing. As an example, my youngest is living a relatively normalized life albeit a bit different from a year ago. He's playing a team sport, we're going to his games (required to wear masks, no big deal every parent is doing it), working his job at a local car wash, hanging out with his friends, and in the new school year's hybrid structure (5 days in class every two weeks with the remaining 5 days in remote).

Its not optimal and its not sustainable indefinitely, but its world's improved from six months ago and no where near the tone of what I'm reading in this thread.

Could it be there's some sensationalism going on here? Probably not. I'm likely just a stupid sheeple.
The mental health of my family and friends are not some normalised or sensational thing. We are receiving mixed messages daily from the establishment, telling us things like go out and spend money in pubs and go back to work. But wait! You silly people, you've spread the virus again, now we have to impose another lockdown because people aren't following the 'rules'. Work from home again!

And tell the people of Victoria, Australia that they are just being sensationalist. Even the Washington Post have said that the leader of their state is acting like a dictator.

https://www.news.com.au/national/vi...n/news-story/3fc9b7776525d83e97adbabc55531b38
 
The mental health of my family and friends are not some normalised or sensational thing. We are receiving mixed messages daily from the establishment, telling us things like go out and spend money in pubs and go back to work. But wait! You silly people, you've spread the virus again, now we have to impose another lockdown because people aren't following the 'rules'. Work from home again!

And tell the people of Victoria, Australia that they are just being sensationalist. Even the Washington Post have said that the leader of their state is acting like a dictator.

https://www.news.com.au/national/vi...n/news-story/3fc9b7776525d83e97adbabc55531b38
Sorry to hear that DD. Was just reporting the news from my community here in the U.S. It sucks for sure, but its not end of times stuff where I live.

Interesting in that we haven't really had anything like this to deal with in probably 75 years (WWII). The average American (all I can speak to) has been pretty lucky to have been going about their lives largely uninterupted. I'm not seeing the clear path to dystopia. I think Trump's likely to win reelection so the rampant paranoia about the secret cabal of Democrats that want a socialist state ain't going to come to pass. Trump's his own form of disaster though in that he LOVES to sow discontent and division; so there's that.
 
Sorry to hear that DD. Was just reporting the news from my community here in the U.S. It sucks for sure, but its not end of times stuff where I live.

Interesting in that we haven't really had anything like this to deal with in probably 75 years (WWII). The average American (all I can speak to) has been pretty lucky to have been going about their lives largely uninterupted. I'm not seeing the clear path to dystopia. I think Trump's likely to win reelection so the rampant paranoia about the secret cabal of Democrats that want a socialist state ain't going to come to pass. Trump's his own form of disaster though in that he LOVES to sow discontent and division; so there's that.
I know, but you have constantly in this thread, been inferring that others who are being affected negatively from the effects of the lockdowns, are too dramatic for seeing the dystopian elements, despite all the evidence from places like Melbourne, or the elderly in care homes, or the stories of the elderly who have been isolated once, and are facing it again; this time based on even more ridiculous and overreactive reasoning. Some of them might not make it because of effect of new lockdowns. So, it's annoying, it's getting personal for me, and I have to challenge it, or else it will just piss me off.

I like to hear from people about whats happening where they live, so that we can see what's what. But I hazard to suggest the parable of the boiling frog in a pan;

"Place a frog in the frying pan and gradually increase the heat. It won’t jump out but stay right there; continually adapting and adjusting its sensitivity until finally it succumbs to the temperature and dies. Our conscience is the frog in the frying pan of life. It gradually adapts and adjusts its sensitivity: compromising an ethic here, forsaking a moral there, justifying this action and making room for that thought until one day just before it dies, our conscience struggles… just a bit, and we force it to bear a little more. How far are we willing to go before enough is too much?"

https://truthbehindreality.wordpress.com/2010/12/09/frog-in-the-frying-pan/
 
I know, but you have constantly in this thread, been inferring that others who are being affected negatively from the effects of the lockdowns, are too dramatic for seeing the dystopian elements, despite all the evidence from places like Melbourne, or the elderly in care homes, or the stories of the elderly who have been isolated once, and are facing it again; this time based on even more ridiculous and overreactive reasoning. Some of them might not make it because of effect of new lockdowns. So, it's annoying, it's getting personal for me, and I have to challenge it, or else it will just piss me off.

I like to hear from people about whats happening where they live, so that we can see what's what. But I hazard to suggest the parable of the boiling frog in a pan;

"Place a frog in the frying pan and gradually increase the heat. It won’t jump out but stay right there; continually adapting and adjusting its sensitivity until finally it succumbs to the temperature and dies. Our conscience is the frog in the frying pan of life. It gradually adapts and adjusts its sensitivity: compromising an ethic here, forsaking a moral there, justifying this action and making room for that thought until one day just before it dies, our conscience struggles… just a bit, and we force it to bear a little more. How far are we willing to go before enough is too much?"

https://truthbehindreality.wordpress.com/2010/12/09/frog-in-the-frying-pan/
One point of clarification: Those speaking in this thread have used reports from the internet as support for their fears.

I'd be curious to hear about their own, direct personal situations as I have shared mine.
 
One point of clarification: Those speaking in this thread have used reports from the internet as support for their fears.

I'd be curious to hear about their own, direct personal situations as I have shared mine.
Well I don't quite understand your point of contention. It's not as if 'reports from the internet', are from some alternate dimension of earth, from people that don't even exist, or that the GLOBAL ECONOMY being screwed and MILLIONS out of jobs and more coming, are from some movie. It's REAL LIFE. THAT IS WHY PEOPLE ARE SCARED. WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

And people have been recounting their own personal stories in this thread. Though funnily enough, this thread, and the corona virus, has been going on for so long now, that it feels like an eternity and I'm going crazy repeating myself. (Joke alert)
 
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Well I don't quite understand your point of contention. It's not as if 'reports from the internet', are from some alternate dimension of earth, from people that don't even exist, or that the GLOBAL ECONOMY being screwed and MILLIONS out of jobs and more coming, are from some movie. It's REAL LIFE. THAT IS WHY PEOPLE ARE SCARED. WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?
Pretty simple reason that I asked: Are these reports representative of this communities direct experiences? I was just curious since they obviously are not for me.
 
Here is a reply to that video by UK ICU doctor Dr Dominic Pimenta



"MSI Fact Check: Dr Dominic Pimenta (UK ICU doctor, director MSI) watches Ivor Cummins (@fatemperor) video "Viral issue, crucial update" and does a live fact check.​
Summary:​
1. Claims 20% of the population were infected by COVID (no evidence to date of that level of infection, serology estimates around 6%)​
2. Claims 80% of the unexposed population are already immune through T-Cell crossreactivity with COVID - best prevalence studies show 20-50% cross-reactive T-cells and NO EVIDENCE PRODUCES IMMUNITY​
3. Ignores the fact that if the above were true we would ALREADY HAVE HERD IMMUNITY.​
4. Claims to be a 'scientist'- no publications, 'research' pulled from Twitter with no references and many incorrect attributions to actual papers.​
5. Confuses the seasons on multiple occasions, including the summer.​
6. Attributes fall in cases and deaths in countries with full lockdown to immunity, without any evidence.​
7. Claims Sweden had 'minimal distancing methods' and is now 'immune' - Sweden had 50% working from home, a reduction in 40% travel in Stockholm and 25% reduction in spending, banned mass gatherings early March and advised to avoid travel and shielded 70s at the same time. Took a 8% drop in GDP as well.​
8. Ignores many countries that were successful on economy and virus control (South Korea, Singapore, Germany)​
9. Contrasts measures taken with Spanish Flu (essentially none in 1918) with the above measures taken in Sweden and concludes lockdown doesn't work - the opposite is demonstrated.​
10. Claims a R value of 0.39 suggests a very strong correlation, when this would be considered weak.​
11. Discusses 'fatality rate' without reference to either IFR or CFR.​
12. Claims initially that epidemic is 'over' due to immunity, but then later that a 'second hump' is normal, despite this being directly contradictory to two earlier statements.​
13. Goes on to claim that the summer is the time to build immunity, despite directly contradicting his own points in the prior three claims.​
14. Neglects to mention that healthcare workers have been found to be 2.5x as likely to contract COVID than the general pop. and ICU workers 0.7x due to the PPE (including full respiratory masks).​
15. Neglects to mention multiple meta-analyses of observational data concluding masks are very effective for reducing spread of respiratory viruses.​
16. Neglects to mention widespread mask use has been common in Asia for over a decade.​
17. Neglects to mention early mask use in Vietnam was associated with the best COVID outcomes in the world, despite minimal resources.​
18. Claims rise in cases in the UK is due to over testing - between 1st Aug and 1st Septemeber the number of tests performed in the UK was static, while cases rose 292%. The percentage positive has also increased​
19. Claims this is due to PCR testing - hospitalisations in the past fornight have tripled and patients in hospital WITH COVID have doubled.​
20. Then claims this is part of the 'normal' winter excess death, despite mixing up excess death and COVID specific death​
21. Provides no calculations or working and appears to have no medical, epidemiological, virological, genetic qualification or papers published with peer-review.​
22. Claims a new wave in winter is normal for coronavirus, despite claiming on four occassions that we are now immune to SARS COV 2.​
23. Claims lastly that we have ancestral community immunity in the summer - despite cases being traditionally very low and therefore exposure very low. Does not propose a mechanism where humans can produce immunity without exposure. (There isn't one)​
24. Then claims this is 'science' - despite no attempt to engage with any scientific process of peer-review, observable or verifiable results.​
25. Calls his network of Twitter enthusiasts 'solid scientists' ..... case closed.​
He finishes with claiming that we will 'have blood on our hands'. As an ICU doctor, having seen first hand the effects of this virus on real people, many of whom lost their lives and the tragedy for the families of what is an avoidable illness, to claim, based wholly on pseudoscience and apparently random Twitter photos, to have a useful understanding to advise the public is frankly abhorrent.​
Just do the basics: wash your hands, cover your face, keep space and follow the guidelines."​

Here is the reply

Here is a followup to the reply:


 
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Good on you K9. Maybe those masks that you spent post after post excoriating (in our little back and forth a few pages back) aren't actually the Devil?
Perversely, if Trump had embraced and endorsed masks earlier, and was thus able to open up the country, he may have a 10-15% lead at this point.
 
Here is a reply to that video by UK ICU doctor Dr Dominic Pimenta



"MSI Fact Check: Dr Dominic Pimenta (UK ICU doctor, director MSI) watches Ivor Cummins (@fatemperor) video "Viral issue, crucial update" and does a live fact check.​
Summary:​
1. Claims 20% of the population were infected by COVID (no evidence to date of that level of infection, serology estimates around 6%)​
2. Claims 80% of the unexposed population are already immune through T-Cell crossreactivity with COVID - best prevalence studies show 20-50% cross-reactive T-cells and NO EVIDENCE PRODUCES IMMUNITY​
3. Ignores the fact that if the above were true we would ALREADY HAVE HERD IMMUNITY.​
4. Claims to be a 'scientist'- no publications, 'research' pulled from Twitter with no references and many incorrect attributions to actual papers.​
5. Confuses the seasons on multiple occasions, including the summer.​
6. Attributes fall in cases and deaths in countries with full lockdown to immunity, without any evidence.​
7. Claims Sweden had 'minimal distancing methods' and is now 'immune' - Sweden had 50% working from home, a reduction in 40% travel in Stockholm and 25% reduction in spending, banned mass gatherings early March and advised to avoid travel and shielded 70s at the same time. Took a 8% drop in GDP as well.​
8. Ignores many countries that were successful on economy and virus control (South Korea, Singapore, Germany)​
9. Contrasts measures taken with Spanish Flu (essentially none in 1918) with the above measures taken in Sweden and concludes lockdown doesn't work - the opposite is demonstrated.​
10. Claims a R value of 0.39 suggests a very strong correlation, when this would be considered weak.​
11. Discusses 'fatality rate' without reference to either IFR or CFR.​
12. Claims initially that epidemic is 'over' due to immunity, but then later that a 'second hump' is normal, despite this being directly contradictory to two earlier statements.​
13. Goes on to claim that the summer is the time to build immunity, despite directly contradicting his own points in the prior three claims.​
14. Neglects to mention that healthcare workers have been found to be 2.5x as likely to contract COVID than the general pop. and ICU workers 0.7x due to the PPE (including full respiratory masks).​
15. Neglects to mention multiple meta-analyses of observational data concluding masks are very effective for reducing spread of respiratory viruses.​
16. Neglects to mention widespread mask use has been common in Asia for over a decade.​
17. Neglects to mention early mask use in Vietnam was associated with the best COVID outcomes in the world, despite minimal resources.​
18. Claims rise in cases in the UK is due to over testing - between 1st Aug and 1st Septemeber the number of tests performed in the UK was static, while cases rose 292%. The percentage positive has also increased​
19. Claims this is due to PCR testing - hospitalisations in the past fornight have tripled and patients in hospital WITH COVID have doubled.​
20. Then claims this is part of the 'normal' winter excess death, despite mixing up excess death and COVID specific death​
21. Provides no calculations or working and appears to have no medical, epidemiological, virological, genetic qualification or papers published with peer-review.​
22. Claims a new wave in winter is normal for coronavirus, despite claiming on four occassions that we are now immune to SARS COV 2.​
23. Claims lastly that we have ancestral community immunity in the summer - despite cases being traditionally very low and therefore exposure very low. Does not propose a mechanism where humans can produce immunity without exposure. (There isn't one)​
24. Then claims this is 'science' - despite no attempt to engage with any scientific process of peer-review, observable or verifiable results.​
25. Calls his network of Twitter enthusiasts 'solid scientists' ..... case closed.​
He finishes with claiming that we will 'have blood on our hands'. As an ICU doctor, having seen first hand the effects of this virus on real people, many of whom lost their lives and the tragedy for the families of what is an avoidable illness, to claim, based wholly on pseudoscience and apparently random Twitter photos, to have a useful understanding to advise the public is frankly abhorrent.​
Just do the basics: wash your hands, cover your face, keep space and follow the guidelines."​

Here is the reply

Here is a followup to the reply:


And so the question is... whose fault is it that so many people don't believe this rebuttal? Who gets the blame that so many people won't believe it?

The corrupt mainstream media, the corrupt agenda driven politicians and the corrupt ideologically driven bureaucrats and citizens who have lied over and over and over and over and over and over and over and... (over to the infinite power).
 
If we reacted to a car accident by shutting down all transportation networks for 6 months, it would be just as bad. The world has had pandemics before, and it didn't react this way.

BTW, masks really don't do much. I posted an article earlier that listed a number of studies that showed that was the case.

https://www.rcreader.com/commentary...f-science-relevant-to-covide-19-social-policy
Yup, you'd settled it back then even when I mentioned that the science was far from settled.
 
I've based my opinion on the available evidence. You seem to want me to do otherwise.
Yeah... that's strange. It is almost like some people just want many others to risk self-destruction which would then domino over to impacting everyone that has any type of interrelated dependency on that individual - like, for example, young children have with their parents. Yet also, we know that these same people want to see the destruction of the nuclear family to begin with.

Its clear that people of this nature are experiencing self-hatred to the extreme and are likely also in full denial of it... and this manifests in their constant postings which push "forced self-destruction" agendas on the rest of us.

People who have succumbed to this lowest form of being have no meaningful life. So they attempt to derive feeling "they matter" by imposing "forced self-destruction" agendas upon those, like myself, who are fearless and free. They just can't stand folks like me so they want to destroy folks like me. They want to destroy my wife who has a relationship with me that involves counting on the things I do that make her life better, just like I count on her for maintaining the wonderful being she is and how we both make our lives far better by this trusting relationship. And this also extends to her daughter who has a greater dependency on her mom and I but that's how it naturally should be. And we, in turn count on the positive impact she has and will increase as she matures into a full adult and enters the world with independence, freedom and fearlessness... as she has observed this in her home and has shown the early signs "she gets it."

This is why the ignore feature provided by this forum is a great feature. There's no reason to feed the energy of energy suckers who can only derive meaning (though it is all and only 'false, self-deceptive "meaning"') by continuing to poke some of the members who "get it."

For a great update regarding the ludicrous "vaccine" push -

Vaccination: What’s Trust Got to Do With It?

Story at-a-glance
  • The orchestrated actions by governments around the world to restrict or eliminate civil liberties in response to the COVID-19 pandemic has been unprecedented, and has had profound effects on the global economy and on the physical, mental and emotional health of billions of people
  • By mid-September 2020, the U.S. had recorded over 7 million cases and 198,000 deaths, with an estimated 598 deaths per million people — a higher death rate per million people than Sweden, where health officials refused to order masking or to lock down the country and allowed the population to acquire natural herd immunity
  • According to the World Health Organization, the overall infection mortality rate for COVID-19 is about 0.6%
  • The CDC recently reported that only 6% of COVID-19-related deaths were solely due to coronavirus infection and 94% of the people who died also had influenza or pneumonia; heart, lung or kidney disease; high blood pressure; diabetes; or another underlying poor health condition
  • Governments have given pharmaceutical companies a liability shield from lawsuits when COVID-19 vaccines injure or kill people. Every poll taken this year has revealed that between 40% and 70% of people living in the U.S. and Europe do not plan to get a COVID-19 vaccine when it is licensed
 
I've based my opinion on the available evidence. You seem to want me to do otherwise.
You said "Masks don't really do much". That's not a statement of opinion, that's a statement of fact. All I'd like to see you do is actually present balanced arguments or if that's asking too much avoid making statements of fact that stem from your own layman's analysis.

The jury's been out on this entire COVID thing from the start with lots of unknowns including the efficacy of wearing masks. That would seem to be the only real position to take if one considers themselves an evidence follower.
 
You said "Masks don't really do much". That's not a statement of opinion, that's a statement of fact. All I'd like to see you do is actually present balanced arguments or if that's asking too much avoid making statements of fact that stem from your own layman's analysis.

The jury's been out on this entire COVID thing from the start with lots of unknowns including the efficacy of wearing masks. That would seem to be the only real position to take if one considers themselves an evidence follower.
Based on the current evidence, masks don't do much. That is my opinion. Unlike you, I've actually done some research and posted papers from medical journals.

You seem to be confused about the difference between facts, opinions and beliefs. Maybe this will help.

https://writing.colostate.edu/guides/teaching/co300man/pop12d.cfm

A fact is verifiable. We can determine whether it is true by researching the evidence. This may involve numbers, dates, testimony, etc.
An opinion is a judgment based on facts, an honest attempt to draw a reasonable conclusion from factual evidence.
Unlike an opinion, a belief is a conviction based on cultural or personal faith, morality, or values. Statements such as "Capital punishment is legalized murder" are often called "opinions" because they express viewpoints, but they are not based on facts or other evidence. They cannot be disproved or even contested in a rational or logical manner. Since beliefs are inarguable, they cannot serve as the thesis of a formal argument.
You have been expressing your beliefs, while I have been presenting my opinions based on the evidence I have found. I've been particularly focused on scientific studies and peer-reviewed medical work as the basis for my opinions.

I hope that clears things up for you.
 
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The following, based on both my experience and my research - Masks actually "do" do "some things."

Depending on who you are and what your agenda might be can determine if you think the thing masks "do" is good or bad.

From my experience and my research, in consideration of my greatest "context" of "good" or "bad," a context that is 3D, shared five sense reality human-centric which includes my assumption some (hopefully all) humans are ensouled beings, it has been my conclusion that wearing a mask does far more "bad" than any possible "good."

I expect my opinion be respected in that my freedom to exercise my opinion (by wearing or not wearing a mask in whatever situation I choose to do one or the other) is honored. I do the same for others and respect their decision to wear or not to wear a mask.

I don't make laws that force you not to wear a mask. I don't "shame" people for wearing a mask. I respect the rights of others to choose, or not, to wear a mask.
 
You said "Masks don't really do much". That's not a statement of opinion, that's a statement of fact. All I'd like to see you do is actually present balanced arguments or if that's asking too much avoid making statements of fact that stem from your own layman's analysis.

The jury's been out on this entire COVID thing from the start with lots of unknowns including the efficacy of wearing masks. That would seem to be the only real position to take if one considers themselves an evidence follower.
Well that's just the thing. No matter how much evidence, or how many arguments people present, you just poo-poo it with the same story each time.

The world could be on fire, billions dead, and you would still sit on the fence. IMO.
 
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