Coronavirus Pandemic

No matter how much evidence, or how many arguments people present
The evidence isn't compelling DD; at least to my read. I'd rather be accused of fence sitting than taking a firm position via confirmation bias based on incomplete evidence. Arguments stemming from this latter position just aren't compelling. Sorry I'm not just "going along to get along" here.
 
The evidence isn't compelling DD; at least to my read. I'd rather be accused of fence sitting than taking a firm position via confirmation bias based on incomplete evidence. Arguments stemming from this latter position just aren't compelling. Sorry I'm not just "going along to get along" here.
That's fair enough. You have a right to 'say no' as it were.

Here in the UK, there have apparently many people snitching again on their neighbours to the police, for 'breaking the rules' on household gatherings. In Scotland, it is even worse. You are not allowed to socially mix with other households again. I for one will not be following these 'orders', because I do not believe them to be legitimate.

Would you be the type of person that would snitch, Silence? Is there anyone here that would?
 
That's fair enough. You have a right to 'say no' as it were.

Here in the UK, there have apparently many people snitching again on their neighbours to the police, for 'breaking the rules' on household gatherings. In Scotland, it is even worse. You are not allowed to socially mix with other households again. I for one will not be following these 'orders', because I do not believe them to be legitimate.

Would you be the type of person that would snitch, Silence? Is there anyone here that would?
Nope, I wouldn't snitch in that case. I'm not a "snitcher" in that sense.

Now, let's take the case of my youngest son who's a junior in high school and currently enjoying his American football season. Our school system, and state for that matter, did a nice job of keeping the athletic programs running in light of COVID. There are rules however designed to keep the kids and coaches as safe as possible. For the kids, who are largely not high risk of course, its important because if they test COVID positive they must recuse themselves from the team and all team activities including games for 14 days. Its a short season as it is so missing two games in this case would be hugely impactful.

So, if some parents, lets say, had made their own "choice" to not abide and perhaps their kid was known to be COVID positive and they weren't following the protocol..... I might say something in that case. Reason being they are putting my kid at risk in such a case. Make sense?

But if a group of people want to gather at their own house, I say good on them. They aren't putting me or my family at risk so I have zero problems with that.
 
Nope, I wouldn't snitch in that case. I'm not a "snitcher" in that sense.

Now, let's take the case of my youngest son who's a junior in high school and currently enjoying his American football season. Our school system, and state for that matter, did a nice job of keeping the athletic programs running in light of COVID. There are rules however designed to keep the kids and coaches as safe as possible. For the kids, who are largely not high risk of course, its important because if they test COVID positive they must recuse themselves from the team and all team activities including games for 14 days. Its a short season as it is so missing two games in this case would be hugely impactful.

So, if some parents, lets say, had made their own "choice" to not abide and perhaps their kid was known to be COVID positive and they weren't following the protocol..... I might say something in that case. Reason being they are putting my kid at risk in such a case. Make sense?

But if a group of people want to gather at their own house, I say good on them. They aren't putting me or my family at risk so I have zero problems with that.
I don't have kids Silence, so it's hard for me to say. We know that there are a lot of false positives from PCR tests, and whilst there are those who wouldn't take the risk, there are those who would. But for you it's more a case of the actual knock-on effects, so missing games would be a pain in the butt! But it's my feeling that we all cannot get 'away' from this effect of COVID on our lives; if we try and maintain some normality, there will be some who do not like to be controlled, and this will 'spoil' it for others in many ways. Which in turn will cause great division. This is the tragic thing because I feel that this is by design. And since I am for resisting this madness, I'm afraid this will put me in positions where I am against those whom I do not wish to have any quarrel with. But I must say no when I feel that line has been crossed, whenever that situation might be.

Basically what I am trying to say is that, none of us win from this, and there will be tears to come. This COVID thing is an all encompassing beast which cannot be reckoned with in the usual way we have been used to over the past, relatively peaceful, years since WW2. It has its tentacles deep into the fabric of how everything is put together and our social contracts.

Regarding these snitchers though, glad to hear it. I believe these types of authoritarian followers to be dangerous, cowardly, lowlife scum, exactly the kind who would have been informing the KGB in Soviet times because well, what is happening now is pretty much the same! I think a ticket to China would suit these bastards well......

I have no pity or an inch for those who threaten my freedom and life in such a manner.
 
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Nope, I wouldn't snitch in that case. I'm not a "snitcher" in that sense.

Now, let's take the case of my youngest son who's a junior in high school and currently enjoying his American football season. Our school system, and state for that matter, did a nice job of keeping the athletic programs running in light of COVID. There are rules however designed to keep the kids and coaches as safe as possible. For the kids, who are largely not high risk of course, its important because if they test COVID positive they must recuse themselves from the team and all team activities including games for 14 days. Its a short season as it is so missing two games in this case would be hugely impactful.

So, if some parents, lets say, had made their own "choice" to not abide and perhaps their kid was known to be COVID positive and they weren't following the protocol..... I might say something in that case. Reason being they are putting my kid at risk in such a case. Make sense?

But if a group of people want to gather at their own house, I say good on them. They aren't putting me or my family at risk so I have zero problems with that.
I sense that even you are beginning to feel the artificiality of this panic. The risk to your kid is the risk that he will lose his place on the team due to lockdown, not that he would die of a terrible disease, or even, I think, cause you or your wife to die of a terrible disease.

My partner has tooth ache, and the first appointment she could get is on Oct 8! Normally an NHS appointment for that would be on the same day! We are now going to explore private dentistry to see if we can get a significant advance on that date. I also know a man with an artificial leg. He describes the leg as 'electronic', and it needs to be tuned to work properly. He waited weeks for this to be done, and then all the COVID rules meant that he wasn't able to walk the required distance for them to make the correct adjustments.

Now imagine what it is like for people with incipient cancer.

The supposed need to suppress COVID by all and any means is being used to destroy the sheer integrity of Western societies.

Almost all the people 'diagnosed' with CV19 in the summer months have been asymptomatic but failed PCR tests. These are assumed to have no false positives, but I recently watched a video in which Karry Mullis, the inventor of the PCR process, spoke about his reason for opposing the use of this test for diagnosis. He had a rather roundabout way of speaking (and is dead now), but I hope I understood the essential problem with doing that.

These tests detect one, or a very few RNA fragments that are supposed to be found in CV19 (he was discussing AIDS but he is dead now, so he can't translate his observation into COVID). I think his main objection is that samples from people often contain whole or fragmented viruses of all sorts - including ones that have never been characterised. There are more of these in people who are in poor condition. If some of these viruses contain sufficiently similar RNA components, these will get amplified up to the point where they will give a false positive result. If the PCR cycles are set at 40, that corresponds to an amplification factor of 2^40, or about 1 trillion times.

David
 
A woman with asthma who had a valid medical reason for not wearing a mask was tased and arrested at an outdoor sporting event where she was not sitting near anyone else.

Yeah, saw that. I just talked about this too. Its been made crystal clear to us that attending youth athletics requires a mask where I live. People are complying, without exception, which has been quite remarkable considering how many folks don't wear masks elsewhere. The common theme of protecting these kids' athletic seasons has been rationale o' plenty. No one wants to put that at risk as the school systems (in Ohio for example) have gone to great lengths to make athletics possible.

This woman should have not come to the game, period. There is no possible way she didn't know the rules; its been plastered all over every and all communications regarding middle/high school athletics. Further, certainly when approached by school officials and told she must either wear a mask or leave, she should have left then. Should she have been tased? Seems completely extreme to me. That said, she chose in the clear light of what was at stake to continue to risk the athletic program for probably 60+ kids (let's assume 30 per roster at a football game; typical for middle school).

Ridiculous and she has plenty of accountability in escalating this situation. She has asthma and can't wear a mask? Stand outside by the fence and watch or just don't go. Sorry, that's the sacrifice you make for your kid being able to even have a football season this year. Doubtful she actually has a serious medical condition anyway. Probably just a conspiracy nut or a MAGA sycophant mirroring Trump's disdain for mask policies. We have plenty of those running around; most of which are smart enough to not risk their kid's sports programs for 90 minutes. Not her I guess.
 
Yeah, saw that. I just talked about this too. Its been made crystal clear to us that attending youth athletics requires a mask where I live. People are complying, without exception, which has been quite remarkable considering how many folks don't wear masks elsewhere. The common theme of protecting these kids' athletic seasons has been rationale o' plenty. No one wants to put that at risk as the school systems (in Ohio for example) have gone to great lengths to make athletics possible.

This woman should have not come to the game, period. There is no possible way she didn't know the rules; its been plastered all over every and all communications regarding middle/high school athletics. Further, certainly when approached by school officials and told she must either wear a mask or leave, she should have left then. Should she have been tased? Seems completely extreme to me. That said, she chose in the clear light of what was at stake to continue to risk the athletic program for probably 60+ kids (let's assume 30 per roster at a football game; typical for middle school).

Ridiculous and she has plenty of accountability in escalating this situation. She has asthma and can't wear a mask? Stand outside by the fence and watch or just don't go. Sorry, that's the sacrifice you make for your kid being able to even have a football season this year. Doubtful she actually has a serious medical condition anyway. Probably just a conspiracy nut or a MAGA sycophant mirroring Trump's disdain for mask policies. We have plenty of those running around; most of which are smart enough to not risk their kid's sports programs for 90 minutes. Not her I guess.
Do you think she needed tasering to arrest her - one woman against several men?

David
 
She was outside and not near anyone else. She had a valid medical exemption and wasn't putting anyone at risk. And she was hit with a taser with no warning or explanation.
You don't know what you're talking about, but what else is new?

She was attending an OHSAA middle school event on the school's athletic property. Everyone in Ohio with kids in school, and I mean everyone, knows the rules. There are no "medical exemptions". The exemption is, if you can't wear a mask, you can't attend the game. Period. She was asked to leave or put on a mask and refused; repeatedly.

The tasing was extreme, most certainly.

But here's the thing: Why did she decide to put her own personal interests ahead of everyone else's? The Fall athletic season in Ohio is hanging on by a thread. We've already seen teams unable to play scheduled games due to COVID outbreaks. No one, not the schools, coaches, parents and players, like the rules but they follow them so that the kids can play.

This woman could have watched a live stream at home (most games these days are live streamed), or stood outside the fence and seen the game, or simply have worn a mask as I seriously doubt her claim of a medical exemption. When the security person called her out she could have done the right thing, again, and either complied or left.

She was selfish and wrong. That's the net net.

The tasing is a separate issue.
 
Wrong guidance; there's specific rules issued by the Ohio Athletic Association. Keep researching. Its not hard to find.

There's no evidence that she has asthma, nor whether its mild, moderate or severe if she actually has it. Mild or moderate cases are higher risk for COVID as it stands and prevailing medical advice to such individuals is to wear a mask or avoid public places altogether (American Academy of Allergy, Asthma & Immunology).

The officer in the video has an impeccable reputation in his school district (20 years of service). Again, tasing seems extreme to me but I wasn't there. The woman's reputation is something else altogether with an arrest history for assault, marijuana, and disorderly conduct.

Just follow the rules folks, its easy. Most do and because of that the middle school and high school kids are having a Fall sports season (unlike many other states). This is an outlier, headline grabbing hot take. Really not much to see here, but plenty to read into it if you have an agenda. And BOY do you have an agenda. ;)
 
Just follow the rules folks, its easy. Most do and because of that the middle school and high school kids are having a Fall sports season (unlike many other states). This is an outlier, headline grabbing hot take. Really not much to see here, but plenty to read into it if you have an agenda. And BOY do you have an agenda.
That seems a poor justification to use here. We are more interested in the loss of individual choice that the mask rules imply, and the lack of decent evidence that these things do actually help. Plus the bizarre fact that masks were officially not recommended at the time when they might have been most useful - the initial spread of the disease in the spring.

I thought tasers were brought in to deal with individuals who represented a potential risk to the police or to themselves - e.g. a knife wielding murderer - not something you would apply to a woman "with an arrest history for assault, marijuana, and disorderly conduct". I mean some people die as a result of being tasered - be reasonable!

David
 
That seems a poor justification to use here.
Here's the thing David: If you lived here, had kids or grandkids in middle/high school athletics, had gone through the spring where all sports were canceled, went through the summer where government, health, and school officials worked super hard on behalf of the kids Fall sports seasons, negotiated through the headwinds of certain groups that didn't want to all Fall sports under any circumstance, and won the battle with the small cost of complying with a really easy rule set.... you might think differently.

You're looking at it from your lens only. That's fine, but this is the bottom line: If you lived here you'd find that 99% of parents/grandparents are ecstatic about following the rules as it protects their kids not even so much from the virus itself but the public pressure to cancel the season should any perception of recklessness be detected.

Again, this woman knew the rules and didn't follow them. That was the first wrong action in this thread yet you (and obviously not K9 who seems utterly disconnected from any common sense) haven't seemed to find any fault with her.

She should not have been tased. No one is challenging that.
 
Here's the thing David: If you lived here, had kids or grandkids in middle/high school athletics, had gone through the spring where all sports were canceled, went through the summer where government, health, and school officials worked super hard on behalf of the kids Fall sports seasons, negotiated through the headwinds of certain groups that didn't want to all Fall sports under any circumstance, and won the battle with the small cost of complying with a really easy rule set.... you might think differently.

You're looking at it from your lens only. That's fine, but this is the bottom line: If you lived here you'd find that 99% of parents/grandparents are ecstatic about following the rules as it protects their kids not even so much from the virus itself but the public pressure to cancel the season should any perception of recklessness be detected.

Again, this woman knew the rules and didn't follow them. That was the first wrong action in this thread yet you (and obviously not K9 who seems utterly disconnected from any common sense) haven't seemed to find any fault with her.

She should not have been tased. No one is challenging that.
Rules are not absolute and each human being will decide for themselves what rules are reasonable and which are not.

People generally follow rules for the most part when they make sense; it creates an ordered environment/society from which we can rely on that stability and use it as a spring board to create a prosperous life. But there is a point where too much order becomes tyrannical. I'm afraid you are going to find that an increasing number of people are not happy with these rules and restrictions on their lives, and will fight tooth and nail against them.
 
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