Jim_Smith
New
Do you think I have misinterpreted your media's reports?
I don't know.
Do you think I have misinterpreted your media's reports?
Is Australia a federal (representative republic)?
No, I don't. But I understand your question was for Jim.
But I believe the question should be... is it intelligent to "buy" into the false reporting, exaggerated reporting, the spun reporting because on the rarest of occasions, you can stumble upon a tidbit of truth stated somewhere in the news media?
I live in Ohio. Our Governor and top health officials were one of the earliest state groups to act. We have, effectively, been in the same structure you articulated in Oz. New York was a bit delayed in its action, but being a global center of commerce packed as densely with people as any city on earth, it seemed likely to struggle with any easily transmittable disease.
Ohio isn't necessarily representative of the entire U.S. but I would call the U.S. response shambolic by any objective measure.
his was courage in a city of cowering people, going through every which means of contortion in order to comply: the face masks that probably don’t work, the social distancing that probably doesn’t work, the quarantines which almost certainly don’t work, the shameful “essential workers only” mandate which evokes this.
Michael, it was me (not Jim) who posted the original and yes I did fail to include a "not".I want to check, Jim, whether you did not leave out 'not' in your last line.
I get the complexity of New York and I am not holding it up as an example par execellence of Federal failing. We would not have handled the same challenge at a Federal level in the same way. That's an opportunity to reflect on what might be best practice. My comments are not a criticism as much as an anxiety about perceived conduct and resultant implications. These are not times to be overly sensitive about comments and feedback.
I agree that NY was especially vulnerable, but surely that would have excited a focused federal response? Instead what I am aware off is contention between the Fed and NY levels of government in a crisis. That may be how you do things in the US. It isn't how Australians respond, so I don't understand what is okay about it. I am open to being enlightened.
Wow Sam
I feel your angst and I have no adequate words in response to your emotion readily to flow. I want to respond to drily practical sentiments.
Face masks, if you re not infected, send a signal you are in synch with the vibe. If you are infected you should not be outside your home, period. If you are infected but do not yet know it, you may save another if you wear a mask. Reasons for wearing a mask far outweigh reasons for nor wearing a mask.
Social distancing works on simple physics. If an infected person coughs and expels droplets the further away you are the less you are at risk of getting contaminated by said droplets. The virus spreads this way.
Quarantines have worked for centuries. Isolation of infected people from the general community has been standard practice for centuries.
There is a simple logic. If the bug can't jump from carrier to potential host it can't spread beyond the range of the carrier's capacity.
Social isolation and distancing works a treat. In fact it is always the only thing that does - outside vaccinations.
***I disagree. We need to have an adult conversation about vaccines. I do not think there is any serious doubt about their value, given our population densities. But were have to confess the risks and admit the harm done.
We do not send our children to war on the promise they will all return unharmed. While viruses are not evil their nature is to colonise available territory. That means they will want to live in us if we become available to them. We have. They will kill those who cannot endure them. We do not hav immune systems calibrated to accommodate a vaccine without being injured or killed. We re not in a war as such, but we are in an evolutionary struggle. In the callous language if the Vietnam war, there will be collateral damage.
Our solution has been to create vaccines that have a failure rate acceptable to law makers. The problem, as I see it, is that this has never been negotiated with the community. The reality is that sacrifice is necessary, but those who fall in service of herd immunity are not honoured -and that is a dreadful failing.
*****What if... after the smoke clears, they realize that this particular virus is, in reality, causing illness and death at the same level (maybe slightly higher) as the occasional more dangerous flu? Like, in the US... 2017 when 71K people died of the flu/pneumonia?
What if there's a greater exposure of the overstated deaths due to coronavirus instead of just dying with the virus? You are aware they count dying with the virus as actually dying because of the virus, yes? Anything wrong with that? I'm asking the "scientists" here.
What if they discover that about the same rates (or a slight increase at most) of hospitalizations and deaths PER CAPITA occurred in Sweden and Germany that the US (for example)?
Will the complete destruction of the entire global economy be looked upon as justified?
Clearly the answer is NO.
But what would knowing all that after the fact do for the economic destruction of the world?
Nothing.
And so there's a very real decision to be made in the US (I can't speak for other nations) where they knowingly cross that line of assured destruction or... stop being controlled by officials who were not elected and a media that has not been elected and instead, fulfill your responsibility as an elected official and make the tough calls.
The media lies incessantly. And the US democrats, establishment dempublicans and the technocrat billionaires and the rest of the elite want as many dead people they can possibly have (and create). As the attorney general stated last night, these people (the media) have created a jihad against hydrochloroquin - that is saving lives! Reducing hospitalizations! Has a 65 year track record of safety! All because Trump suggested people speak with their doctor about using it if they have the virus or have symptoms or... work in a health care situation where your odds of being exposed to the virus are significantly higher.
Anyone that defends these actions of the media and the rest I named who backed this jihad is consciously and intentionally justifying killing people just because they hate Trump and are terrified he gains more success in implementing the Trump agenda.
It's black and white.
ALONG WITH THE WUHAN PANDEMIC, THERE'S A HUGE OUTBREAK OF LYING
LYING ABOUT THE PANDEMIC, PART 2
Ever wonder why "lying" isn't on the list of seven deadly sins?
Because it is so obvious it doesn't need to be on any list.
Austria, Norway, Denmark, and the Czech Republic have plans to reopen parts of their economies, but they have not concluded the virus is harmless.
If you look at the details of their plans to reopen, they confirm that these countries consider the virus to be a deadly danger much worse than the flu.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/08/cor...-countries-set-to-lift-lockdown-measures.html
Austria’s chancellor, the world’s youngest head of government at 33-years-old, said the plan was for all shops to follow suit and open from May 1.However, only one shopper per 20 square meters of shopping space will be permitted and all shoppers will be required to wear face masks at supermarkets and drugstores of more than 400 square meters in size.Kurz said restaurants and hotels would not re-open until the middle of next month, at the earliest, and public events would not be allowed until at least late June....In Denmark, care centers and schools are set to reopen from April 15, allowing parents to return to a normal workday. However, all remaining restrictions, including bans of public gatherings of more than 10 people, will stay in place for another four weeks.“This will probably be a bit like walking the tightrope,” Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen told a media briefing earlier this week. “If we stand still along the way we could fall and if we go too fast it can go wrong. Therefore, we must take one cautious step at a time.”...Norway has also announced plans to gradually relax coronavirus restrictions, with kindergartens now scheduled to reopen between April 20 and April 27. Schools from the first grade to fourth grade will open from April 27....Solberg warned that while measures would be taken to slowly reopen, working from home would continue and Norwegians should get used to measures designed to limit the spread of the virus “for a long time.”...In the Czech Republic, the government has said some shops will reopen from Thursday, with rules to be relaxed on sporting activities that don’t involve the congregation of people — such as running and cycling.
At the daily corona virus press conference Dr. Fauci was asked about how long social distancing would be necessary. It seems to me he says by late June or early July there won’t be any new cases and they will by then have the means in place to isolate any that come up so that things can start to get back to normal. He says, I think, a vaccine is a year or a year and a half away.
Question1:03:15Looking beyond when we're on the other side of this curve, are we looking at living with some sort of social distancing guidelines essentially, essentially until there's treatment or a vaccine. For example people looking forward to the summer talk about you know going to baseball games going to concerts we have political conventions over the summer are things like that possible or safe without a vaccine or treatment place?Dr. Fauci:1:03:39Yeah, I think if we get to the part of the curve that dr. Birx showed yesterday when it goes down to essentially no new cases no deaths at a period of time,
[I think this is the graph he is referring to, they showed it yesterday https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections Facui didn’t give a date but to me it looks like by late June or early July there are no new cases.]
View attachment 1590
I think it makes sense that you're gonna have to relax social distancing. The one thing we hopefully would have in place, and I believe we will have in place, is a much more robust system to be able to identify someone who's infected isolate them and then do contact tracing. Because if you have a really good program of containment that prevents you from ever having to get into mitigation - we're in mitigation right now that's what the social and physical distancing is.The ultimate, the ultimate solution to a virus that might keep coming back would be a vaccine. In fact I was on the weekly conference call with the WHO sponsored group of all the health leaders in the world who are dealing with this, and we all came to the agreement that we may have cycling with another season. We'll be much better prepared we likely will have interventions, but the ultimate game changer in this will be a vaccine, the same way a vaccine for other diseases that were scourges in the past that now we don't even worry about.I mean the vaccine is, is as I said, it's on target. We're still in phase one. There were three doses that we had to test. We've been through the first two doses. We're on the highest dose now. When we get that data, it'll take a few months to get the data, to, we feel confident to go to the Phase two and then a few months from now we'll be in Phase two and I think we're right on target for a year to a year and a half.
The US has a plan to lift restrictions too. In the time since I made the post below, the models have been updated and the time when there will be no new cases seems to have changed to late May or early June so that is good news for the US.
Thank God Fauci is not the elected President. You wait till mid-June and the US is economic toast. Trump won't do that - watch.
I put my money on early May and the way it will be done will model after the countries who will prove the success of their measures... many of those listed in the article.
Ohhh and you'll see the total projected deaths much closer to my prediction posted here on this forum on March 30th - 35K.
Maybe IMHE will be hiring? Think I might get a job there?
There is that magic line... and many are thinking we have already crossed it. Soon, we will be so far past it that you will see the American people saying, "enough!" IMO we are almost there.
I think that if this goes on for too long the public will decide they are willing to take the risk in order to get back to normal and the government will have to give in. ...
Sam,
Sorry if you already answered this, I hope you don't mind if I ask:
Why do you think there will be 35K deaths?
Thanks
What do you think of the states' decisions to shut non-essential business and tell people to stay at home?
Did they save lives?
How many?
Are they worth the economic cost?
How can you tell which side is right? How do you know this web site is not a psychological operation?