Could the 5th dimension be called Meaning?

Discussion in 'Extended Consciousness & Spirituality' started by Hurmanetar, Mar 10, 2015.

  1. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    I have been playing around with the connection between meaning and story for a while and I've mentioned it in some threads on this forum. Here I will play with meaning and the 5th dimension. This is a sketch of an idea and not the finished product so please take it as such.

    When people ask the question, "where does the meaning of life come from?" I think people usually skip over "story" and jump straight to the author. Answers come back as to the possible identity of the author: "God", or "the source", or "self" or "there is no god so there is no meaning." It is apparent to me that meaning comes simply from story. The question of authorship of the story is complex and debatable, but "meaning" could be viewed simply as a quality or feature of story.

    We often view 4D spacetime as a timeline, but couldn't we also call it a storyline? Calling it a "timeline" merely strips some of the emotion from it, but since this timeline involves conscious beings who experience the quality of meaning within it, then storyline could be an equal or more valid description. When we read a novel, we understand from the beginning that the storyline is deterministic. It has already been written. Yet while we are engrossed in the storyline, we don't yet know the path the storyline will take. This temporary indeterminacy enables us to experience emotion and meaning because from our perspective within the story, the characters do not know their future and have choices to make that affect the meaning.

    If 4D spacetime is a pre-determined storyline, then any deviation from this line would enter the 5th dimension. Since changes to a storyline alter its meaning, the 5th dimension could be viewed as the dimension of meaning. Instead of viewing the 4D line as completely straight it could be thought of as bobbing and weaving in the 5D topography of meaning.

    I searched "5th dimension" on this forum and found a link to this paper which evaluates NDEs from a 5th dimensional perspective: http://journalofcosmology.com/Consciousness152.html
    I also seem to recall hearing Joe McMoneagle mention that he thought the next dimension up was an emotional dimension.

    It seems that at the moment of bodily death, consciousness becomes unconstrained from the physical body which was the 4D vehicle or avatar though which the storyline was experienced. Consciousness is then capable of easily moving through the 5th dimension. Just as one can step back from the storyline of a novel and see the whole line at once or travel to any page at will, a disembodied consciousness has the ability to instantly move at will to any point within the 4D storyline that was one's life, and this is experienced as a life review. In the 5th dimension, the topography is meaning, so disembodied consciousness is instantly displaced to the location where meaning is being felt explored.

    Those who have cultivated the ability to move their consciousness through the 5th dimension while still alive such as psychics or remote viewers, seem to move through the contours of meaning. Like looking at a scene and seeing peaks and valleys, a psychic will look at a person and see peaks and valleys of meaning. Remote viewing experiments have been done where the target location was merely a lattitude and longitude on a card in an unopened envelope. The connection between the coordinate symbols and the actual location is meaning and this meaning can be traveled through to mentally arrive at the physical location.

    There is a restriction on the distance massive matter can travel through the 5th dimension and this restriction on the change of meaning is what what produces sameness through time or habit or law. The 5th dimension has been described as the "probability space" in which quantum events are superpositioned until they collapse into a 4D actuality. Randomness is empty 5D space. A 4D timeline running through a "flat" "boring" area of 5D space could be thought of as a random normal distribution. Exercising free will creates features or "peaks" and "valleys" in a 5D landscape that stand out from a flat or completely random landscape.

    Numerous experiments have been done showing the power of intention to alter normally random processes. When random (or irrational) processes suddenly become non-random (or rational), they are meaningful. When non-random output becomes expected, it becomes less meaningful, so the effect size drops. This could be why many parapsychology experiments have noticed a decrease in effect size over time.

    A magnet placed around iron filings reveals arcs of the electromagnetic field from one point on the magnet to another point on the magnet. Using this as a visual analogy, if a person's life were viewed from the 5D perspective as a storyline or timeline, one could draw arcs from one point on the storyline to another point on the storyline. The most meaningful moments would show up as the most prominent arcs to the rest of the timeline. These arcs can travel both forwards and backwards in time. This is how I envision the Morphogenetic field. The more meaningful the moment, the greater the field strength emanating from that section of the storyline.

    Okay that's already too much for an OP so I'll stop there. I welcome all thoughts and criticisms to this thought sketch.
     
  2. Nassim

    Nassim New

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    Interesting, i gotta say :
    Meaning is a matter of consciousness ,and the latter might be a separate non-physical and non-local field (can't be compared to electromagnetic fields though,since they are both different from each other in kind , not just in genre.), whose scope can increase or decrease,depending on the level of consciousness/ awareness.
    Morphogenetic fields, on the other hand, might work similarly like consciousness does, maybe, in the above mentioned sense.
    Strong individual fields of consciousness like those of so-called psychic people who can be able to do remote viewing , telepathy, clairvoyance....are able to reach other distant fields of consciousness and hence visualize the information that's contained in there ...I don't know.

    I think that it's all about intention that can alter , shape, or "determine" meaning.

    For example, the intentions and expectations of scientists can influence the way they design experiments, the way they interpret their results, the meaning attached to the latter ...


    In short:

    Physics would not be able to help you understand the mystery of consciousness and its fields and hence meaning.
     
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  3. Saiko

    Saiko Member

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    I see it as arbitrary terminology. If one wants to label meaning the 5th Dimension then sure why not. Or 13th, 15th, whatever. :) If OTOH you're interested in whether the levels that interact with/as meaning have an actual effect then I agree that they do. From my perspective, yes meaning does correlate directly with "filed strength."
     
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  4. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    Thanks for your response. Why would physics not be able to help? Are you positing a dualistic view of consciousness where consciousness is "other" so that physics can't determine anything about it?

    When an electron passes through an electromagnetic field, its behavior is altered such that it is moved in the direction of the field lines. Similarly, we could say that when a radioactive isotope passes through a 5D field of conscious intention or meaning, then its ordinarily random behavior is changed to align with the direction of the field of intention. If the Orch OR theory has any validity to it, then we could think of the microtubules as being like the iron filings that align themselves with the field as they pass through it.
     
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  5. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    Why the 5th and not other dimensions? Because the 5th dimension represents a change in the storyline, but stays within a plane that intersects the 4D storyline. The 6th dimension adds another degree of freedom in which one could move to a plane that does not intersect the 4D storyline that we are presently experiencing. Movement in the 6th dimension means we are not changing the storyline, but are rather changing to entirely different stories. I haven't figured out what to call that yet :)

    If we slice a line, we get a point... an imaginary concept. If we slice a plane, we get a line... still imaginary. If we slice a body, we get a plane... still imaginary. If we slice a 4D timeline, we get a body with no duration... still imaginary. If we slice a 5D meaning-space, we get a 4D determinate storyline... since indeterminacy and free-will exist, this is still an imaginary construct. Although we might be able to keep going and claim every dimension requires the one above it to become more substantial and less imaginary, at least when we get to the 5th dimension, we arrive at something that resembles our present experience of meaning both in the body and out of it.
     
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  6. Saiko

    Saiko Member

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    Hmmm . . .IMO all that you stated holds if one is dealing with dimensions as if they are physical dimensions. But it's cool. I can roll with your scheme. It's a coherent model that will work fine for discussing the (IMO) more important stuff. Just keep in mind that it is a model and don't fall into the rut of thinking that non-physical dimensions actually do have those physical characteristics.
     
  7. Haruhi

    Haruhi New

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    Thanks for your post, Hurmanetar. I am particularly interested in the relationship between meaning and psi abilities, because evidence indicates that some psi phenomena are not based on a transfer of matter / energy between subject and target, but a semantic connection between subject and object: the subject has something representative of the target. Consider the following article:

    http://www.newdualism.org/papers/M.Levin/ijp2001b.htm

    "This hardly seems like a materialist theory, not because of a ghostly field of information (which abound in quantum physics anyway), but because the information is contained based on a semantic relationship to the object, as opposed to being selected on the basis of some physical property such as spatial location (for example, when a metal bears traces of magnetic fields it had encountered through physical proximity)."

    "The connection is made semantically (the target is described to the subject in enough detail to enable him to know what he is to try to observe)."

    "Once again the connection between the dowsing rod or pendulum and the target object is not a physical one but a semantic one (made by the symbolic map which the dowser sees)."

    "The semantic nature of remote-target clairvoyance, psychometry, homeopathy, and dowsing demonstrates that some phenomena are best explained by interactions not based on the physical location and properties of the objects involved, but rather on the semantic role they play in the mind of the participant."

    This may be related to the holographic paradigm and the first sight hypothesis to explain psi phenomena. According to the holographic paradigm, every part of the universe contains all information about the universe. Each individual is part of the universe, so each individual contains all the information of the universe. So in theory it would be possible to know anything "without looking out", that is, without recourse to the senses, because that information is already in me, but how to select relevant information from literally everything (extremely more difficult than looking for a needle in a haystack)? Through a semantic connection with that data. The first sight hypothesis fwould tell us that this information is subconscious and only rarely conscious.
     
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  8. Max_B

    Max_B Member

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    Your ideas have come on leaps and bounds over the last few months Haruhi...
     
  9. Haruhi

    Haruhi New

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    These ideas are not my invention and I do not know what your point.
     
  10. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    You could try Philip J Carter - particularly this:

    http://vixra.org/pdf/1312.0208v5.pdf

    That is tough going, so I asked EthanT about it, he thought it might be valid, but he pointed out that there are a lot of esoteric physics theories knocking about!

    David
     
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  11. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    Thanks Haruhi and David for the links! I'll check them out ASAP.

    The more I think about it, the more I think 5+ dimensional thinking is the answer to so many of the paradoxes explored here. As I have said many times, our knowledge is a collection of mental maps of reality. A 2D map of the 3D earth has distortions and discontinuities at the edges which reveal the need for higher dimensional thinking. Someone unaware that the earth is round might find it paradoxical that you can sail west and wind up in the East. 3D maps of reality would lead one to find it paradoxical that "now" is different depending on your relative motion or that two distant regions can touch (non-locality). 4D maps of reality find it paradoxical that causation can be reversed or that free will and meaning can exist. A 5D map eliminates these paradoxes. What paradoxes arise from 5D thinking? Say you went for a loop in the 5th dimension and had deja vu or had precognition which led you to change your behavior. That creates a new 4D timeline so the fold or connection between the two timelines could be the 6th dimension. I would think the 6th dimension would be the domain of Anthony Peak's Daemon or the "higher self" which has broader knowledge and occasionally passes through our location dropping off nuggets of wisdom. And the 7th? Perhaps that is the domain of the Archons? I'm getting way out there now.

    There is another principle I'm rolling around at the moment... the principle of struggle or warfare. In our storyline, we wage war for control or author-ity over 3D geography and 4D energy resources. Authority is exerted by controlling meaning through propaganda and force. If warfare is waged in the 5th dimension, what would that look like? The battle for our souls? Psychic vampire pedophiles feeding off the 5D field energy of small children? Would the authorities in 5D space want to prevent others from invading their space? Could this be done by attempting to keep minds from looking beyond material 4D existence? More to think about...
     
  12. Nassim

    Nassim New

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    You're welcome.
    I do somehow agree with the writers of "Quantum Enigma, physics encounters consciousness.", in the sense that consciousness underlies physics itself ,and in the sense that"... physicists can't even explain physics , let alone consciousness..." as Wigner used to say ,while adding that " ...we might be needing even better physics than QM to account for consciousness..." :

    http://quantumenigma.com/

    The hard problem or mystery of consciousness does go beyond physics also, since consciousness cannot but be a non-physical and non-local process that has to have non-mechanical causal effects on matter without , by definition, obeying any laws of physics.
    QM , for example, has replaced the classical deterministic universe with the probabilistic one by eliminating , so to speak, the causal closure of the physical.

    I think that Von Neumann was closer to the "truth" on the subject than the rest thus.

    Maybe, but keep in mind that the fields of consciousness are the ones that are underlying the physical ones, not the other way around.
    I think of it as follows :
    The ultimate Consciousness or source of all consciousnesses underlies the laws of physics, the physical fields and forces.
     
  13. Haruhi

    Haruhi New

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  14. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    Whew! I made it through it all, but was tough going! Not sure I followed everything... I'm only an engineer... but there were a few nuggets in there that I am digesting and will certainly add to my model building efforts. Thank you for sharing!
     
  15. Nassim

    Nassim New

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    "Physicists can't even explain physics , let alone consciousness."
    Wigner
     
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  16. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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  17. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    I read the paper you linked to and yes it seems like what they are saying resonates with what I'm saying. Meaning or semantic relationship is key to understanding hyperdimensional phenomena. This just sparked a new thought in me... I have been thinking of the process of acquiring knowledge as an effort to build models or maps of reality. These maps are imperfect, but we continually strive to improve them. I have been viewing these maps as a means to an end, but perhaps this is too lowly a view of them. These maps are collections semantic or symbolic meaningful relationships. From a 5D meaning perspective, the act of model building could be like building a power generating 5D reactor. Let me try to restate this better... if meaningful connections are energetic movements through the 5th dimension, than increasing those meaningful connections through acquisition of knowledge increases the "energy" or "brightness" when viewed in the 5th dimension. I am reminded of the verse in Daniel chapter 12 verse 3 "Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever."
     
  18. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    Just watched this and although it goes through the math too quickly for me to fully absorb it, the ideas presented resonate with me on an intuitive level... As in the paper you posted the link to, they are using 3 time dimensions to allegedly solve some mysteries which are artifacts of a one-dimensional perspective on time. I'm really digging the notion that there are 3 dimensions of space and 3 dimensions of time.

     
  19. Nassim

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  20. Hurmanetar

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