Daniel Pinchbeck, How Soon is Now, Heavy-Handed Climate Apocalypse Stuff |343|

1) First off, To attribute Soviet mega-genocide to Stalin is a fallacy. Lenin, in his short 8 years in power, killed many more people than Stalin.
2) To call Scandinavian system a working one is an aberration. Have you been there lately? I go there a lot. Censorship, politically correct tyranny, expropriation via excessive taxation, etc, etc. Truly Orwellian nightmare.Now, they are moving to "cashless society", and that is beyond Orwell.
3) Ukraine is a construct, very much like Afghanistan or Iraq: there is Eastern Ukraine, Orthodox, mainly Russian-speaking, with the ancient capital Kiev, which was the capital of Russia more than 800 years ago, and where Knyaz Vladimir baptized the population in Byzantine Orthodoxy, and the Catholic Western Ukraine, with the capital Lviv, that was part of Poland, and is vehemently anti-Russian.
4) In order to see how real the Soviet communism (as well as the rest of them), you have to read Marx and Engels, particularly their articles en Rheinische Zeitung. I also recommend you to see the documentary I posted, it's one of the best analysis of Soviet communism ever.
I wasn't planning on writing any more on this thread, but I'm so amazed at what's been written. What you wrote, Enrique, is absolutely spot on. Can you please re-post the documentary on the Soviet Union? (somehow I missed that.)

To add to what you wrote, there are almost weekly riots in Scandinavian countries, esp. Sweden; there is massive censorship and unrest; people are emigrating from there in record numbers, including homeschoolers who are persecuted. The place is as you wrote, truly an Orwellian NIGHTMARE.

The real examples of socialism - and working ones - are Scandinavia and Benelux
Revealing that these are your best examples of socialism 'working'... Very revealing.
 
I wasn't planning on writing any more on this thread, but I'm so amazed at what's been written. What you wrote, Enrique, is absolutely spot on. Can you please re-post the documentary on the Soviet Union? (somehow I missed that.)

To add to what you wrote, there are almost weekly riots in Scandinavian countries, esp. Sweden; there is massive censorship and unrest; people are emigrating from there in record numbers, including homeschoolers who are persecuted. The place is as you wrote, truly an Orwellian NIGHTMARE.



Revealing that these are your best examples of socialism 'working'... Very revealing.
I think you guys need to get off the Internet, and speak to people from these countries, or go visit them like I have, before making such absurd claims. Like that Scandinavia has weekly riots or there is massive unrest. These countries have low crime, high employment, great welfare systems, great healthcare for all citizens, Finland has the best education system in the world, the list goes on.

The only way you guys could call these countries Orwellian nightmares is by not speaking to peopl from thes countries and not going to these countries.

And please, don't share some fake news about how crime/rape has gone up in Sweden without reading the rebuttals from Swedish people.
 
I wasn't planning on writing any more on this thread, but I'm so amazed at what's been written. What you wrote, Enrique, is absolutely spot on. Can you please re-post the documentary on the Soviet Union? (somehow I missed that.)

To add to what you wrote, there are almost weekly riots in Scandinavian countries, esp. Sweden; there is massive censorship and unrest; people are emigrating from there in record numbers, including homeschoolers who are persecuted. The place is as you wrote, truly an Orwellian NIGHTMARE.



Revealing that these are your best examples of socialism 'working'... Very revealing.
So I looked into where Scandinavian countries are ranked in terms of freedom. They all come in the top 20, above the United States:

http://redalertpolitics.com/2015/08/19/america-20th-free-country-world/

Finland is the 3rd most free country, Denmark 4th,Sweden 10th, Norway 11th. If they are 'Orwellian nightmares', what would you call America, which comes in at 20th?

The citizens of these countries seem pretty happy too, with all four Scandinavian countries in the top 10 worlds happiest countries, with Norway coming in at number one and Denmark at number two:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/20/travel/worlds-happiest-countries-united-nations-2017/

Must be awful living in these countries where the people are free and happy. Damn Socialism!
 
I wasn't planning on writing any more on this thread, but I'm so amazed at what's been written. What you wrote, Enrique, is absolutely spot on. Can you please re-post the documentary on the Soviet Union? (somehow I missed that.)

To add to what you wrote, there are almost weekly riots in Scandinavian countries, esp. Sweden; there is massive censorship and unrest; people are emigrating from there in record numbers, including homeschoolers who are persecuted. The place is as you wrote, truly an Orwellian NIGHTMARE.
Revealing that these are your best examples of socialism 'working'... Very revealing.
Hi, Nelson, here is the link to the documentary. It describes the genocidal nature of marxism, the crimes of Lenin-Trotsky-Stalin, and similarities between nazism and communism. Don't miss the images of the leftist icon, beloved by every "progressive" in the world Bernard Shaw, where this sociopath calls on the scientists of the world "to invent a humane, painless gas to exterminate the useless classes of society".

Re Scandinavian "socialist paradise": this Bosnian (I think) immigrant, of moderately social-democrat persuasion, in his viral Youtube channel, narrates the horrors of the Northern dystopia.
https://www.youtube.com/user/EnArgBlatteTalar

....as does this working class family man:
https://www.youtube.com/user/buskenjunior

....this writer and journalist from Denmark narrates the Orwellian horrors of his homeland:
https://www.youtube.com/user/MikkelClairNissen
 
So I looked into where Scandinavian countries are ranked in terms of freedom. They all come in the top 20, above the United States:

http://redalertpolitics.com/2015/08/19/america-20th-free-country-world/

Finland is the 3rd most free country, Denmark 4th,Sweden 10th, Norway 11th. If they are 'Orwellian nightmares', what would you call America, which comes in at 20th?

The citizens of these countries seem pretty happy too, with all four Scandinavian countries in the top 10 worlds happiest countries, with Norway coming in at number one and Denmark at number two:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/20/travel/worlds-happiest-countries-united-nations-2017/

Must be awful living in these countries where the people are free and happy. Damn Socialism!
Those rankings are always trotted out by socialists. From what I've seen though, looking at what they are actually measuring, many of the things are positively biased towards how socialist the countries are! (socialist policies are criteria for being a higher ranked country).

Btw, there is also a difference between freedom to and freedom from. See here, for example, the "freedom" of the socialist horror:
https://www.hslda.org/hs/international/Sweden/default.asp
 
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Those rankings are always trotted out by socialists. If you look at what they are measuring though, many of the things are based on how socialist the countries are!

Btw, there is also a difference between freedom to and freedom from. See here, for example, the "freedom" of the socialist horror:
https://www.hslda.org/hs/international/Sweden/default.asp
It's funny as hell: the horrific reality of these countries - the censorship, no-go zones, riots, rapes, persecution of dissidence, ideological tyranny - none of it matters, because some ranking.... LOLOLOL!, most people are intellectual slaves.
 
Those rankings are always trotted out by socialists. From what I've seen though, looking at what they are actually measuring, many of the things are positively biased towards how socialist the countries are! (socialist policies are criteria for being a higher ranked country).

Btw, there is also a difference between freedom to and freedom from. See here, for example, the "freedom" of the socialist horror:
https://www.hslda.org/hs/international/Sweden/default.asp
Have you ever considered, that counties with more Socialism or Social policies might just be more free? If you read the article it measures political and economic freedom.

And not being able to homeschool doesn't mean your country isn't generally a pretty free one. I don't agree with that by the way.

Anyway, I've provided objective evidence that Scandinavian countries are amongst the most free and the most happy. You provided a link to a pro homeschooling website.

Maybe consider changing your position on this issue considering the strength of evidence against it.
 
You see, Nelson??? They don't even want to see the evidence. Three links I posted (and I can post them ad infinitum, the evidence is more than overwhelming) haven't been even looked at. They keep calling this cockamamie "ranking" objective evidence".... Which, again, is very telling: if the horrendous, Orwenllian, nightmarish Scandinavian dystopia is their ideal society, we are in for a rough ride.
Happy, happy, la la la: http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/223150/swedens-totalitarian-face-fjordman
La, la, la, it's a paradise:
 
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Have you ever considered, that counties with more Socialism or Social policies might just be more free? If you read the article it measures political and economic freedom.

And not being able to homeschool doesn't mean your country isn't generally a pretty free one. I don't agree with that by the way.

Anyway, I've provided objective evidence that Scandinavian countries are amongst the most free and the most happy. You provided a link to a pro homeschooling website.

Maybe consider changing your position on this issue considering the strength of evidence against it.
You see, Nelson??? They don't even want to see the evidence. Three links I posted (and I can post them ad infinitum, the evidence is more than overwhelming) haven't been even looked at. They keep calling this cockamamie "ranking" objective evidence".... Which, again, is very telling: if the horrendous, Orwenllian, nightmarish Scandinavian dystopia is their ideal society, we are in for a rough ride.
Happy, happy, la la la: http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/223150/swedens-totalitarian-face-fjordman
La, la, la, it's a paradise:
Those rankings are always trotted out by socialists. From what I've seen though, looking at what they are actually measuring, many of the things are positively biased towards how socialist the countries are! (socialist policies are criteria for being a higher ranked country).

Btw, there is also a difference between freedom to and freedom from. See here, for example, the "freedom" of the socialist horror:
https://www.hslda.org/hs/international/Sweden/default.asp
Well... I said Scandinavian (Libertarian) Socialism is "working", didn't I? I didn't say it is perfect or utopian - it is very, very far from it, as well as any other social order we have today.

As for its freedom level - it is (at least) as high as the overall freedom level of other modern Western countries - with all of them combining (with a different ratio) socialist and capitalist elements; the level of freedom which is the very highest one achieved by mankind in its currently known history. It is still pretty damn far from what I - a devoted anarchist and a radical libertarian - would like to see. But it still remarkably higher than in any non-Western country. Calling it "nighmarish Orwellian dystopia" is a gross exxageration obvious to anyone living outside of the Western zone of (relative) liberty, such as Russian like me. And Russia is still rather mild in its authoritarianism and reaction, combined with other non-Western countries - such as, for example, Singapore, a harshy (I would even say, cruelly) authoritarian country which is, also, a highly economically successful capitalist one.

And my own personal freedom rankings are not taken from any ratings, but a result of my years-long personal exploration of radical libertarian / anarchist sources - from Far Left to Far Right, from peaceful protest and dissidence to militant resistance and insurrection - and the conclusions I made from these personal searches. These conclusions are not perfect truth, for sure; they are as fallible as I, a human being, am. And, according to my conclusions, made after a lot of comparative work, are these: the ideals and principles developed by the Libertarian Left movement of 1960s and 1970s are still the very best ones that the intellectual legacy of mankind has to offer - providing that they are not flawless, and are open to critique, correction and revision.

And for homeschooling - I knew this criticism would appear, and I agree with it; it is a genuine flaw. It is worth remembering, however, that homeschooling ideas come in different forms, and from different social forces... So, may I ask: Enrique, Nelson, did you read John Holt, one of the primary homeschooling advocates? The reason why I ask this I will reveal after your answers.
 
Well... I said Scandinavian (Libertarian) Socialism is "working", didn't I? I didn't say it is perfect or utopian - it is very, very far from it, as well as any other social order we have today.

As for its freedom level - it is (at least) as high as the overall freedom level of other modern Western countries - with all of them combining (with a different ratio) socialist and capitalist elements; the level of freedom which is the very highest one achieved by mankind in its currently known history. It is still pretty damn far from what I - a devoted anarchist and a radical libertarian - would like to see. But it still remarkably higher than in any non-Western country. Calling it "nighmarish Orwellian dystopia" is a gross exxageration obvious to anyone living outside of the Western zone of (relative) liberty, such as Russian like me. And Russia is still rather mild in its authoritarianism and reaction, combined with other non-Western countries - such as, for example, Singapore, a harshy (I would even say, cruelly) authoritarian country which is, also, a highly economically successful capitalist one.

And my own personal freedom rankings are not taken from any ratings, but a result of my years-long personal exploration of radical libertarian / anarchist sources - from Far Left to Far Right, from peaceful protest and dissidence to militant resistance and insurrection - and the conclusions I made from these personal searches. These conclusions are not perfect truth, for sure; they are as fallible as I, a human being, am. And, according to my conclusions, made after a lot of comparative work, are these: the ideals and principles developed by the Libertarian Left movement of 1960s and 1970s are still the very best ones that the intellectual legacy of mankind has to offer - providing that they are not flawless, and are open to critique, correction and revision.

And for homeschooling - I knew this criticism would appear, and I agree with it; it is a genuine flaw. It is worth remembering, however, that homeschooling ideas come in different forms, and from different social forces... So, may I ask: Enrique, Nelson, did you read John Holt, one of the primary homeschooling advocates? The reason why I ask this I will reveal after your answers.
No, it's not at all an exaggeration, Scandinavian countries, I insist, as innumerable evidence demonstrates, ARE Orwellian tyrannies. When you go to jail for expressing n opinion, it's a bona fide dictatorship. Take a look at the links I provide, and I can provide, literally, hundreds more. Furthermore, when when they do complete their transition to "cashless society", which they are in the process of, they will surpass anything Orwell foresaw in his worst nightmares.
Кстати, знаю Россию хорошо. Слишком хорошо, я бы сказал. И тем не менее, между теперешней Швецией и Россией выбрал бы Россию

https://robertnyman.com/2008/08/27/sweden-becomes-an-orwellian-nightmare-the-fra-debacle/

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/02/23/swedish-socialist-govt-clamp-down-fake-news/
 
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So I looked into where Scandinavian countries are ranked in terms of freedom. They all come in the top 20, above the United States:

http://redalertpolitics.com/2015/08/19/america-20th-free-country-world/

Finland is the 3rd most free country, Denmark 4th,Sweden 10th, Norway 11th. If they are 'Orwellian nightmares', what would you call America, which comes in at 20th?

The citizens of these countries seem pretty happy too, with all four Scandinavian countries in the top 10 worlds happiest countries, with Norway coming in at number one and Denmark at number two:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/20/travel/worlds-happiest-countries-united-nations-2017/

Must be awful living in these countries where the people are free and happy. Damn Socialism!
I know someone who is a Dane; she is very happy.
 
No, it's not at all an exaggeration, Scandinavian countries, I insist, as innumerable evidence demonstrates, ARE Orwellian tyrannies. When you go to jail for expressing n opinion, it's a bona fide dictatorship. Take a look at the links I provide, and I can provide, literally, hundreds more. Furthermore, when when they do complete their transition to "cashless society", which they are in the process of, they will surpass anything Orwell foresaw in his worst nightmares.
Кстати, знаю Россию хорошо. Слишком хорошо, я бы сказал. И тем не менее, между теперешней Швецией и Россией выбрал бы Россию

https://robertnyman.com/2008/08/27/sweden-becomes-an-orwellian-nightmare-the-fra-debacle/

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/02/23/swedish-socialist-govt-clamp-down-fake-news/
Wow! Using Breitbart as an unbiased news source automatically discredits any point you make.
 
Wow! Using Breitbart as an unbiased news source automatically discredits any point you make.
More LMAO: Attaking a source OF A NEWS, not its editorializing, is a fallacy so low-brow, it's beyond laughable. This is a Swedish law, the news came out in a multitude of media outlets of all political colors, Breitbart, in this case, is a pure coincidence. But all you can do is start screaming "BREITBART!!!!!! BREITBART!!!!!!". Amazing really. I remember now why you are on my ignore list.
 

Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
That story of Amma's 18-hour hugging and "World? What world?" is amazing, Alex. There's definitely something right on the money in that "balance" or double-perspective or whatever you want to call it.
 
When looking at the historical CO2 levels in the atmosphere, today's 400ppm is on the low end of the scale. The low end. Drop much lower than that.... say, to 200-250ppm, and global flora begin to die from lack of breathable air.

On the other hand, CO2 levels have often been higher, sometimes much higher, upwards of 1500ppm. What effect do you suppose this might have had on global plant life?

If you want to get a first hand look, go to any commercial greenhouse. Most of them boost their interior CO2 levels to at least 800ppm--that's twice the current atmospheric level--because it results in massively improved plant health and growth. Many plants will add as much as 60% more mass in such an atmosphere.

Not only that, climate information gleaned from various sources(ice cores, tree rings, the usual) show that warmer periods are more stable with far fewer violent swings and extreme weather than colder periods. This is because the higher energy levels involved in the warm periods(atmospheric and oceanic heat, insolation, etc) have a stabilizing effect compared to cooler periods, where lower overall energy levels in the system make it more prone to extreme disruptions.

In the Holocene, archaeological evidence all shows that the warmer periods were much more conducive to life and that mankind prospered globally during these periods. The cold periods were harsh, people living through those times lived short, difficult lives.
Within historical times, the Medieval Warm Period was a time of bounty and plenty. Most of Europe's beautiful gothic cathedrals were constructed during this time. Then the "Little Ice Age" struck, crops failed, famine began, and soon after, plague and death. Many cathedrals were never finished, the change was so abrupt that the masons downed tools one day and never returned. Piles of stone blocks and other materials can still be found around unfinished sections to this day.

The point I am trying to make is that warmer is better. It is global cold that really causes problems. And CO2 is not a pollutant, plants love the stuff. More CO2 means more and bigger plants, which means more food for everyone, animals and humans alike. CO2 should be considered a solution, not a problem. Deforestation? CO2 stimulates plant growth like you wouldn't believe. Jungles would return in a season or two, oceanic algaes would bloom, restoring the marine food chain from the ground up, the entire flora ecology would be massively strengthened, which would in turn bolster and strengthen animal life, making species far more robust and resistant to extinction....
CO2 is the breath of life, not a harbinger of doom.


Doesn't seem like a good plan.
Let me add this too. And like I said previously, it is more complicated than you think.
Harvests in the U.S. to suffer from climate change, according to study
Some of the most important crops risk substantial damage from rising temperatures. To better assess how climate change caused by human greenhouse gas emissions will likely impact wheat, maize and soybean, an international team of scientists conducted an unprecedentedly comprehensive set of computer simulations of U.S. crop yields. The simulations reproduced a strong reduction in past crop yields induced by high temperatures, thereby confirming that they capture one main mechanism for future projections. Importantly, the scientists find that increased irrigation can reduce the negative effects of global warming on crops—but this is possible only in regions where sufficient water is available. Eventually, limiting global warming is needed to keep crop losses in check.


"We know from observations that high temperatures can harm crops, but now we have a much better understanding of the processes," says Bernhard Schauberger from the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research, lead author of the study. "The computer simulations that we do are based on robust knowledge from physics, chemistry, biology; on a lot of data and elaborate algorithms. But they cannot represent the entire complexity of the crop system; thus, we call them models. In our study, they have passed a critical test." The scientists compare the model results to data from actual observations. Thusy, they can determine which critical factors to include in their calculations, including temperature, CO2, irrigation and fertilization.

Without efficient emission reductions, yield losses of 20 percent for wheat are possible by 2100



Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-01-harvests-climate.html#jCp
 
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