Daniel Pinchbeck, How Soon is Now, Heavy-Handed Climate Apocalypse Stuff |343|

Why do self described Marxists always get Marxism wrong?
I know the answer to this one! It's because when those who see themselves as intellectuals disagree with someone then they can't conceive that it could possibly anyone other than themselves who gets to define what the thing they disagree with actually is right?

It's basically the same irrational demographic who can't ever say they UNDERSTAND an atrocity or why it happened or the motivation of the perp because - to them - that would mean condoning it.
 
Suddenly clueless, Roberta?

Hint: A so-called intellectual such as Marx telling workers what to do spawned a system in which other so-called intellectuals tell workers what to do.
Except Marx never told workers what to do - he merely outlined his predictions (wrongly in many cases) of what would cause Capitalism to implode. But carry on. We don't need facts these days. I got the memo. Can forward you it if they missed out out.
 
You see, Nelson??? They don't even want to see the evidence. Three links I posted (and I can post them ad infinitum, the evidence is more than overwhelming) haven't been even looked at. They keep calling this cockamamie "ranking" objective evidence".... Which, again, is very telling: if the horrendous, Orwenllian, nightmarish Scandinavian dystopia is their ideal society, we are in for a rough ride.
Happy, happy, la la la: http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/223150/swedens-totalitarian-face-fjordman
La, la, la, it's a paradise:
There's a reason WHY we don't want to see the evidence. I am going to tell you what it is.

I have lived all over Europe. I have friends in Sweden. I have literally - and I mean literally - witnessed a friend arguing online with someone (while he is in Sweden) who has never left America, possibly never left his State and was saying exactly what you said and even the bit about 'see they will never look at the facts'.

An American who never left the States. Saying this from his right-wing YouTube sources to someone actually LIVING in Sweden.
 
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About Scandinavian horrors... The Norwegian authorities apparently heard the criticsms of psychiatry that have been voiced by critical psychiatry / antipsychiatry movement for decades and is now opening state-sponsored clinics with alternative non-medication treatments, providing the patients with the right to decide what kind of therapy they want.

Of course, even this initative is still institutional, with all the problems it brings, such as a possibility to use force. But there are truly radical non-institutional alternatives in Scandinavian countries, such as Open Dialogue in Finland and Loren Mosher's Soteria Houses in Sweden, founded by him there after he was kicked away from American psychiatric circles in the early 1980s - in the epoch when liberatory projects of 1960s - 1970s were crushed en masse.
 
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There's a reason WHY we don't want to see the evidence. I am going to tell you what it is.

I have lived all over Europe. I have friends in Sweden. I have literally - and I mean literally - witnessed a friend arguing online with someone (while he is in Sweden) who has never left America, possibly never left his State and was saying exactly what you said and even the bit about 'see they will never look at the facts'.

An American who never left the States. Saying this from his right-wing YouTube sources to someone actually LIVING in Sweden.
Internet is the most valuable source of information in the history of mankind, but its usage requires five steps:

1) Learn the whole range of views available, including the ones with which you are strongly disagree and which you deeply despise.

2) Do a very careful rational analysis and comparative work.

3) Understand the biases you have, and try not to fall to them too often, and too severely.

4) Make strong statements only after you studied the topic carefully, and for long.

5) Even after fully performing steps 1 - 4, always remember that you may be wrong, and be ready for a novel data.

Most people do not perform even step 1.
 
Internet is the most valuable source of information in the history of mankind, but its usage requires five steps:

1) Learn the whole range of views available, including the ones with which you are strongly disagree and which you deeply despise.

2) Do a very careful rational analysis and comparative work.

3) Understand the biases you have, and try not to fall to them too often, and too severely.

4) Make strong statements only after you studied the topic carefully, and for long.

5) Even after fully performing steps 1 - 4, always remember that you may be wrong, and be ready for a novel data.

Most people do not perform even step 1.
Exactly my point. Which is why I think the whole debate thing is useless... the Pinchbeck/Alex head to head is a text-book example of it actually. It just doesn't work anymore.

I hardly ever bother to even argue my position these days. There's other fish to fry.
 
Lot of assumptions there.
Well let's see. Original question was "Why do self described Marxists always get Marxism wrong?". I get variants of this all the time with Islam - it goes like this:

Islamophobe: "Islam demands you kill loads of people and be a pedophile"

Me: "err... no, actually it doesn't"

At this point a variant of the "Why do self described Muslims always get Islam wrong?" is free to be played and usually is.

What it really translates to of course is something like "the people who know more than me about the subject I'm lying about can see through my agenda so I have to move the goalposts"

It's almost as if - in fact exactly is - someone attempting to say that all vegetarians eat meat and the ones who claim they don't are either apologists or know nothing about vegetarianism.
 
Except Marx never told workers what to do
Unbelievable. You write things as if you are an authority but you are really full of sh**.

Even the final sentence of the Communist Manifesto is telling workers what to do!:

“Workers of the world, unite!”

Proletarier aller Länder vereinigt Euch!”

For those interested in evidence (i.e. obviously not Mr Rees), here is the primary source:
https://de.wikisource.org/wiki/Manifest_der_Kommunistischen_Partei_(1848)
 
Unbelievable. You write things as if you are an authority but you are really full of sh**.

Even the final sentence of the Communist Manifesto is telling workers what to do!:

“Workers of the world, unite!”

Proletarier aller Länder vereinigt Euch!”

For those interested in evidence (i.e. obviously not Mr Rees), here is the primary source:
https://de.wikisource.org/wiki/Manifest_der_Kommunistischen_Partei_(1848)
Lol, you really have an idée fixe here don't you?
 
Unbelievable. You write things as if you are an authority but you are really full of sh**.

Even the final sentence of the Communist Manifesto is telling workers what to do!:

“Workers of the world, unite!”

Proletarier aller Länder vereinigt Euch!”

For those interested in evidence (i.e. obviously not Mr Rees), here is the primary source:
https://de.wikisource.org/wiki/Manifest_der_Kommunistischen_Partei_(1848)
Wow, I just realised what the problem here is... had a dumbed-down moment and it was an epiphany. You think Marxism and Communism are the same thing don't you?
 
Wow, I just realised what the problem here is... had a dumbed-down moment and it was an epiphany. You think Marxism and Communism are the same thing don't you?
Anyone with over a 2-minute-attention-span can see you're trying to change the subject.

A so-called intellectual such as Marx telling workers what to do spawned a system in which other so-called intellectuals tell workers what to do.
Except Marx never told workers what to do
Unbelievable. You write things as if you are an authority but you are really full of sh**.

Even the final sentence of the Communist Manifesto is telling workers what to do!:

“Workers of the world, unite!”

Proletarier aller Länder vereinigt Euch!”

For those interested in evidence (i.e. obviously not Mr Rees), here is the primary source:
https://de.wikisource.org/wiki/Manifest_der_Kommunistischen_Partei_(1848)
[Edit: I'll let go of this point now, to let others reflect on it...]
 
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Anyone with over a 2-minute-attention-span can see you're trying to change the subject.

[Edit: I'll let go of this point now, to let others reflect on it...]
Add this to the mix quickly for those of a reflective mindset:

Me: "Except Marx never told workers what to do"

Response: "Even the final sentence of the Communist Manifesto is telling workers what to do!:"
 
There's a reason WHY we don't want to see the evidence. I am going to tell you what it is.

I have lived all over Europe. I have friends in Sweden. I have literally - and I mean literally - witnessed a friend arguing online with someone (while he is in Sweden) who has never left America, possibly never left his State and was saying exactly what you said and even the bit about 'see they will never look at the facts'.

An American who never left the States. Saying this from his right-wing YouTube sources to someone actually LIVING in Sweden.
Yes, because obviously Americans don't know anything about multiculturalism.
 
You see, Nelson??? They don't even want to see the evidence. Three links I posted (and I can post them ad infinitum, the evidence is more than overwhelming) haven't been even looked at. They keep calling this cockamamie "ranking" objective evidence".... Which, again, is very telling: if the horrendous, Orwenllian, nightmarish Scandinavian dystopia is their ideal society, we are in for a rough ride.
Happy, happy, la la la: http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/223150/swedens-totalitarian-face-fjordman
La, la, la, it's a paradise:
Enrique - What are you talking about?
 
No, it's not at all an exaggeration, Scandinavian countries, I insist, as innumerable evidence demonstrates, ARE Orwellian tyrannies. When you go to jail for expressing n opinion, it's a bona fide dictatorship. Take a look at the links I provide, and I can provide, literally, hundreds more. Furthermore, when when they do complete their transition to "cashless society", which they are in the process of, they will surpass anything Orwell foresaw in his worst nightmares.
Кстати, знаю Россию хорошо. Слишком хорошо, я бы сказал. И тем не менее, между теперешней Швецией и Россией выбрал бы Россию

https://robertnyman.com/2008/08/27/sweden-becomes-an-orwellian-nightmare-the-fra-debacle/

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/02/23/swedish-socialist-govt-clamp-down-fake-news/
Nope, all Scandinavian countries are amongst the top 20 most free, politically and economically, countries in the world. Shouting, screaming, insisting and posting YouTube videos doesn't change that. I know you're desperate not to be wrong but on pretty much every measure Scandinavian countries are very, very successful. Claiming they'll become worse then anything Orwell predicting is just embarrassing hysteria.
 
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