Mod+ David Bohm on Consciousness, QM, Paranormal, etc. [Resources]

Discussion in 'Consciousness & Science' started by Sciborg_S_Patel, Aug 28, 2014.

  1. Making this a resource thread with the usual rules.

    3-5 posts discussing a linked resource then please make a new thread to carry on the conversation.




    David Bohm: A New Theory of the Relationship of Mind and Matter

    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2016
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  2. Understanding Bohm’s Holoflux: Clearing Up a Conceptual Misunderstanding of the Holographic Paradigm and Clarifying its Signifigance
    to Transpersonal Studies of Consciousness

    Also check out Josephson's views on touching this transcendental reality.

  3. "I would say that in my scientific and philosophical work, my main concern has been with understanding the nature of reality in general and of consciousness in particular as a coherent whole, which is never static or complete but which is an unending process of movement and unfoldment...." (David Bohm: Wholeness and the Implicate Order)
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  4. ghost

    ghost New

    Mar 21, 2014
    I am having trouble disproving the possibility that consciousness is emergent from the right kind of neural network; and of course the only kind of neural net that we know produces consciousness is the brain. For those of us who are either spiritualists, hopeful of an afterlife or in the existence of psi, the scientific community has not been helpful. Most of their theories are deliberately pessimistic about an afterlife and are avoidant of such models. Probably because they don't want to lose their jobs.

    However, I have an idea for how an afterlife might be possible. Quantum entanglement is a hot research topic now. We are told that quantum entanglements are fragile and break easily. But of course we don't know if there are other kinds of entanglements that are either more stable or are more dynamic. What if there exists an all pervasive quantum entanglement mesh that exists everywhere in space, inside the space-time continuum and beyond it. What if it behaves like a neural network and has those special properties that can create consciousness? So when you die physically, your consciousness escapes the physical body and returns to this quantum entanglement mesh?

    Could this be occuring?
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  5. Hey Ghost, I know Koons addresses the subject of a neural network emulating a human mind in this talk:

    Regarding an afterlife in accordance with quantum physics - there was that quantum soul thread...and Ethan mentioned a new kind of locality that has been discovered.

    I'm not sure Bohm believed in personality survival...I think the answer is no but I'll check around. Fred Alan Wolf believed the Holographic Universe, which Bohm identified with the Implicate-Explicate Order, did suggest an afterlife. He talks about meeting the spirit of his son in a dream here:

    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2014
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  6. ghost

    ghost New

    Mar 21, 2014
    I would think that if any of these experts in physics or neuroscience even suggested that physical creation exists within some quantum entanglement network field that is so like a neural network that it can manifest consciousness, that they would lose their job and all respect even for suggesting it. But that would have nothing to do with whether or not it is actually true or not. We could keel over and die and find out that such a quantum entanglement network is still generating our consciousness.

    I have to confess sciborg, this attempt to reconcile science with consciousness is exhausting and is unsustainable as a pursuit. It is just easier to admit that an afterlife exists, but is unreconcilable with physics. But physics and cosmology have their own problems with fine tuned universes popping out of nothing, and biology behaving more intelligently than materialists expect.

    I have to withdraw to my basic beliefs as a Spiritualist and Theosophist, and apologize that I won't be able to show logically that a spirit world exists. But it does look like science won't be able to consolidate its discoveries into a nice neat package of equations with a pretty bow. So for all we know, there really are grey aliens popping out of the aether and abducting people, demons running amuck, and beings of light meeting us in the afterlife when our brain stops working.
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  7. As Tallis notes, the problem is more fundamental than that, going right to the intelligibility of causality itself.

    Bohm's ideas also contain some spirituality

    What prevents theoretical insights from going beyond existing limitations and changing to meet new facts is just the belief that theories give true knowledge of reality (which implies, of course, that they never change). Although our modern way of thinking has changed a great deal relative to the ancient one, the two have had one key feature in common: i.e. they are both generally 'blinkered' by the notion that theories give true knowledge about 'reality as it is'. Thus, both are led to confuse the forms and shapes induced in our perceptions by theoretical insight with a reality independent of our thought and way of looking. This confusion is of crucial significance, since it leads us to approach nature, society and the individual in terms of more or less fixed and limited forms of thought, and thus, apparently, to keep on confirming the limitations of these forms of thought in experience. (David Bohm, Wholeness and the Implicate Order, 1980)

    If man thinks of the totality as constituted of independent fragments, then that is how his mind will tend to operate, but if he can include everything coherently and harmoniously in an overall whole that is undivided, unbroken, and without a border then his mind will tend to move in a similar way, and from this will flow an orderly action within the whole. (David Bohm, Wholeness and the Implicate Order, 1980)

    The notion that all these fragments is separately existent is evidently an illusion, and this illusion cannot do other than lead to endless conflict and confusion. Indeed, the attempt to live according to the notion that the fragments are really separate is, in essence, what has led to the growing series of extremely urgent crises that is confronting us today. Thus, as is now well known, this way of life has brought about pollution, destruction of the balance of nature, over-population, world-wide economic and political disorder and the creation of an overall environment that is neither physically nor mentally healthy for most of the people who live in it. Individually there has developed a widespread feeling of helplessness and despair, in the face of what seems to be an overwhelming mass of disparate social forces, going beyond the control and even the comprehension of the human beings who are caught up in it. (David Bohm, Wholeness and the Implicate Order, 1980)
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  8. Recalled posting this in another thread, putting it here for organization's sake (note the similarity to the views of Whitehead's process theology & Matthews' Taoist panpsychism):

    Bohm’s Implicate Order, Wheeler’s Participatory Universe, Stapp’s Mindful Universe, Zurek’s Quantum Darwinism and the Buddhist Mind-Only Ground Consciousness

  9. 'If we supposed that theories gave true knowledge, corresponding to 'reality as it is', then we would have to conclude that Newtonian Mechanics was true until around 1900, after which it suddenly became false, while relativity and quantum theory suddenly became the truth. Such an absurd conclusion does not arise, however, if we say that all theories are insights, which are neither true nor false.

    ... Man is continually developing new forms of insight, which are clear up to a point and then tend to become unclear. In this activity, there is evidently no reason to suppose that there is or will be a final form of insight (corresponding to absolute truth) or even a steady series of approximations to this. Rather, one may expect the unending development of new forms of insight (which will, however assimilate certain key features of the older forms as simplifications, in the way that relativity theory does with Newtonian theory). Our theories are to be regarded primarily as ways of looking at the world as a whole ('world-views') rather than as 'absolute true knowledge of how things are'.

    -David Bohm, Wholeness and the Implicate Order
  10. The Wholeness of Quantum Reality: An Interview with Physicist Basil Hiley

  11. On Quantum Mechanics and the Implicate Order: an Interview with Dr. BASIL J. HILEY

  12. No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

  13. Old link from awhile ago:

    Morphic Fields and the Implicate Order - A dialogue with David Bohm

  14. Two part Pentamental Podcast:

    Infinite Potential w/ F. David Peat:

    The Order Between w/ Dr. John Briggs:

  15. From The Bohm Documentary site

    "We invite you to join us on an incredible journey into eternal presence, a journey existing outside the bounds of space and time, no future no past, beginning in the now unfathomable depths of un-manifest formless consciousness, always enfolding and unfolding into manifest form consciousness, from the implicate to the explicate… Enter the ever present Infinite Potential of David Bohm and participate in the making of this fascinating and extraordinary feature documentary film on the Life and Ideas of David Bohm, brilliant physicist and explorer of consciousness."

    Some selections:

    Where is The Implicate?

    Order Between and Beyond


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