David Ditchfield’s Near-Death Experience Turned Him Into an Artist and Composer |453|

Alex

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#1
David Ditchfield’s Near-Death Experience Turned Him Into an Artist and Composer |453|
by Alex Tsakiris | Jun 23 | Near-Death Experience
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David Ditchfield was pulled under a speeding commuter train, but the spiritual encounters of his NDE left him with new artistic gifts.
photo by: Skeptiko
[Movie clip 00:00:00 – 00:00:43]
That’s Shia LeBeouf from the movie Fury, talking about the mixed feelings that come with being “chosen.” I thought it was a good fit for my interview with David Ditchfield who had a rather remarkable near-death experience. I pushed David pretty hard on his Christian interpretation of the experience, but I think we settled on some interesting, deeper truths about being chosen.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:01:12] I’ve interviewed people, David, who’ve had multiple near-death experiences, and they’ve said that they’ve gone deeper and subsequent ones, and the reality that they were at, gave way to a deeper reality and then a deeper reality beyond that. And they even speculate that there’s almost no end to how deep or how high because it’s all moving towards the light, moving towards God, moving towards love. How does that strike you?
David Ditchfield: [00:01:38] Yes, I do, because as I said to you, I felt like I was being prepared for something to go on to another stage and I’ve realized now since my NDE that a lot of my teachings are still coming through now, it’s almost like they sent me back and it’s kind of, okay, so I’m back here now, but I didn’t suddenly feel like, oh, man, I don’t want to be back here. You know? Straight away I was thinking, right what’s my purpose? Why have they sent it back?
Alex Tsakiris: [00:02:04] Welcome to Skeptiko where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers, thinkers, and their critics. I’m your host Alex Tsakiris, and today we welcome David Ditchfield to Skeptiko. He’s here to talk about a new book of his called Shine On, an amazing, remarkable near-death experience story that changed David’s life in, well, a number of ways that we’re going to talk about.
You know, we, we don’t usually do stories on near-death experience accounts, but David has a lot more to talk about, in terms of the near-death experience in general. And also, I think there’s some interesting kind of subtle cultural differences between the UK and the U S and how we all think about near-death experience.
So David, I think we’ll have a good discussion. Thanks for joining me today.
David Ditchfield: [00:03:10] Oh, thanks for having me along. Good to meet you, Alex.
 
#3
I’d go as far as speculating that everyone has a different version/perspective of the hereafter realms and or will use their different learned way of describing the same thing. It seems that some archetypes are encountered and although being an actual phenomenon that is experienced, it must still come back and filtered by this state of life in the continuum to communicate. It appears that our language still is primitive and there are things that can’t be translated equally and some things that seem to appear in a blind spot of this reality.

I also think some people will allow themselves to go further. But for those who can handle more might just be able to handle the crossing of thresholds more skillfully. In my opinion people will go to their own version of the heavenly realms. There is always the observer there no matter how many dives inside.
 
#4
I’d go as far as speculating that everyone has a different version/perspective of the hereafter realms and or will use their different learned way of describing the same thing. It seems that some archetypes are encountered and although being an actual phenomenon that is experienced, it must still come back and filtered by this state of life in the continuum to communicate. It appears that our language still is primitive and there are things that can’t be translated equally and some things that seem to appear in a blind spot of this reality.

I also think some people will allow themselves to go further. But for those who can handle more might just be able to handle the crossing of thresholds more skillfully. In my opinion people will go to their own version of the heavenly realms. There is always the observer there no matter how many dives inside.
I agree. I have come to suspect that the non-physical realms are very complex and varied - just like Earth is - and that you can find just about anything up there. There are presumably places that are based around each of the various religions, and places that see things in a non-religious way.

David
 
#5
Yeah I feel it may have ties to the phenomenon of egregores. In the same respect that most material creation is shaped by an idea or thought form. Enough doing this- manifest Fatima
 
#6
I’d go as far as speculating that everyone has a different version/perspective of the hereafter realms and or will use their different learned way of describing the same thing. It seems that some archetypes are encountered and although being an actual phenomenon that is experienced, it must still come back and filtered by this state of life in the continuum to communicate. It appears that our language still is primitive and there are things that can’t be translated equally and some things that seem to appear in a blind spot of this reality.

I also think some people will allow themselves to go further. But for those who can handle more might just be able to handle the crossing of thresholds more skillfully. In my opinion people will go to their own version of the heavenly realms. There is always the observer there no matter how many dives inside.
Agree. I think this happens all the time. Christians die, (as one example, not to pick on Christians) and they see a “powerful and loving white light” and assume that they’ve seen Jesus. And that’s fine. I’m not gonna tell them who they did or didn’t see. And, to be fair, perhaps oftentimes they ARE seeing Jesus. But I think that it’s just as likely that they are often seeing some sort of higher form of Consciousness, maybe even their own “higher selves” but they are thrusted into this powerful and bizarre scenario which they can make little sense of and all That they know how to do is to use their beliefs and inherent cultural biases to explain what happened to them.
 
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Alex

Administrator
#7
I’d go as far as speculating that everyone has a different version/perspective of the hereafter realms and or will use their different learned way of describing the same thing. It seems that some archetypes are encountered and although being an actual phenomenon that is experienced, it must still come back and filtered by this state of life in the continuum to communicate. It appears that our language still is primitive and there are things that can’t be translated equally and some things that seem to appear in a blind spot of this reality.

I also think some people will allow themselves to go further. But for those who can handle more might just be able to handle the crossing of thresholds more skillfully. In my opinion people will go to their own version of the heavenly realms. There is always the observer there no matter how many dives inside.
nicely put :)
 
#9
Very good interview. On the question of whether Jesus was a real historical person I would say that it is unlikely anyone or any number of people could have come up with such a character whose message focused on love and compassion at a place and time where that kind o radical fiction would be unexpected. I also find the ancient accounts from India, Kashmir and Nepal of Jesus' travels there to be pretty corroborative.

In any case Alex, your persistent questions about why people encounter familiar icons of their culture and beliefs is only problematic if you think that a NDE takes you to some place that is new to your greater self. Would it not make sense that if our self chooses to enter into certain lifetimes that the return at the end of a NDE would be set up as part of that total lifetime experience? This may also relate to your questions about whether there are many levels beyond what some NDE returnees report. Consider, for example, that a NDE experience is not necessarily an objective window into the "afterlife" but rather a reflective experience. Better yet, like a one-way mirror with your greater self on the window side and "you" trying to make out who or what is there beyond the images, thoughts and reflections. In other words there is still a NDE veil, or for some persons many veils, and some of these screens convey the likeness of Jesus while others that of a magnificent eagle, a grandfather, etc. The pertinent question may not be why so many lifetime relatable personages are encountered but rather what one should learn from whatever was experienced.

So maybe what we usefully get out of a NDE is simply something we need to process AS PART OF THIS LIFETIME because of course a NDE is something from which we return, in which case it is not meant to hugely clue us in on those distant realms. What we need to do or know following a FDE (full death experience:) is prrhaps exclusively part ot the journey of our greater self, to which we only occasionally get some access in the course of extended consciousness experiences.

To go a bit further down this subjective lane, when you have guests and one saw Jesus while another saw a luminous being, consider that your interactions with these persons may be significant further parts of their NDE journey, like mirrors and veils this side of "death" where they and you and all of us get to pursue our Near Truth Experiences. I am not being cute with words here. Perhaps the mystery and confusion we experience with extended consciousness, spirituality philosophy, aliens, good and evil, and with life in general is there because the meaning of things is not found in the partial, mortal understandings we individually or collectively hold at any given moment. The telos may simply be the light and what matters is what we do with what "know" to further everyones journey in that direction as best we can. We may be spiritual moths.

When I say "we" I include all beings, but I realize (and have reasons to suspect) that there may be large, categorical differences say between us and some ETs or interdimensionals. It may be that the realms of human extended consciousness only intersect with those of other beings at a few disparate points. It may be that the worlds of spirit are themselves morphogenetic. It may be that the great light of oneness is not the same as the universe but resides within it. So many times I must remind myself to check my premises, or yet more difficult, to juggle different premises so that some combination of data and hypotheses are not missed or prejudiciously ignored. Skeptiko, indeed.
 
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#10
Very good interview. On the question of whether Jesus was a real historical person I would say that it is unlikely anyone or any number of people could have come up with such a character whose message focused on love and compassion at a place and time where that kind o radical fiction would be unexpected. I also find the ancient accounts from India, Kashmir and Nepal of Jesus' travels there to be pretty corroborative.

In any case Alex, your persistent questions about why people encounter familiar icons of their culture and beliefs is only problematic if you think that a NDE takes you to some place that is new to your greater self. Would it not make sense that if our self chooses to enter into certain lifetimes that the return at the end of a NDE would be set up as part of that total lifetime experience? This may also relate to your questions about whether there are many levels beyond what some NDE returnees report. Consider, for example, that a NDE experience is not necessarily an objective window into the "afterlife" but rather a reflective experience. Better yet, like a one-way mirror with your greater self on the window side and "you" trying to make out who or what is there beyond the images, thoughts and reflections. In other words there is still a NDE veil, or for some persons many veils, and some of these screens convey the likeness of Jesus while others that of a magnificent eagle, a grandfather, etc. The pertinent question may not be why so many lifetime relatable personages are encountered but rather what one should learn from with whatever was experienced.

So maybe what we usefully get out of a NDE is simply something we need to process AS PART OF THIS LIFETIME because of course a NDE is something from which we return, in which case it is not meant to hugely clue us in on those distant realms. What we need to do or know following a FDE (full death experience:) is prrhaps exclusively part ot the journey of our greater self, to which we only occasionally get some access in the course of extended consciousness experiences.

To go a bit further down this subjective lane, when you have guests and one saw Jesus while another saw a luminous being, consider that your interactions with these persons may be significant further parts of their NDE journey, like mirrors and veils this side of "death" where they and you and all of us get to pursue our Near Truth Experiences. I am not being cute with words here. Perhaps the mystery and confusion we experience with extended consciousness, spirituality philosophy, aliens, good and evil, and with life in general is there because the meaning of things is not found in the patial, mortal understandings we individually or collectively hold at any given moment. The telos may simply be the light and what matters is what we do with what "know" to further everyones journey in that direction as best we can. We may be spiritual moths.

When I say "we" I include all beings, but I realize (and have reasons to suspect) that there may be large, categorical differences say between us and some ETs or interdimensionals. It may be that the realms of human extended consciousness only intersect with those of other beings at a few disparate points. It may be that the worlds of spirit are themselves morphogenetic. It may be that the great light of oneness is not the same as the universe but resides within it. So many times I must remind myself to check my premises, or yet more difficult, to juggle different premises so that some combination of data and hypotheses are not missed or prejudiciously ignored. Skeptiko, indeed.
Agreed. When I was younger I became obsessed with the historicity of Jesus question and researched it extensively. It's pretty established that he was a historical person...there's more historical evidence for him than many other ancient figures who's existence we take for granted.
 
#11
Agreed. When I was younger I became obsessed with the historicity of Jesus question and researched it extensively. It's pretty established that he was a historical person...there's more historical evidence for him than many other ancient figures who's existence we take for granted.
I think so too. It us also interesting from an extended consciousness perspective that eastern masters like Yogananda said they knew of Jesus in their greater awareness, and not as an imaginary but a real being. For me the reasons to doubt his existence are similar to materialists doubting that we are more than machines. I know that we are spiritual brings, so I therefore do not find it difficult to believe that Jesus lived. By extension I therefore do not find it difficult to believe that he can be encountered in some ways. This is not because I am religious (I am not) or because I need to believe in Jesus. I am just not challenged by these kinds of things any more than that there are ETs and interdimensionals and a universe that may as well be conscious, as in Kastrup's Idealismic conception. On the other hand I always keep at least a gentle skepticism close by so that I can catch myself and not miss other possibilities.
 
#12
Most if not all scholarly historians say the historic Jesus did in fact walk the earth and raddled the cages of the Jewish and Roman authorities of Judea. Note in Historic Jesus link below : "Most biblical scholars and classical historians see the theories of his non-existence as effectively refuted,[2][17][88] and in modern scholarship, the Christ myth theory is a fringe theory and finds virtually no support from scholars.[89][90][91][92][note 2]"

I would add that the Jesus didn't exist myth is on the same line as we didn't land on the moon ; the morons that believe both are one in the same. There is also plenty of evidence of the miracles of Christ at the time. I can't see the big deal about any of it. I'm a believer but if your not, and or have another way to God, I'm find with it ,and would agree with you there are other paths up the spiritual consciousness tree to heaven after death. What I believe might not be your path , but to say the historic Jesus didn't walk the earth is just not true and plain silly. Also , I love Skeptico , but this anti-christian bigoted stuff on here is a bit narrow minded and childish . If you don't believe , fine but everybody has their beliefs . I see there's no issue on Skeptico putting on these medium frauds IMO who claim they talk to the dead and charge hundred of dollars an hour to rip people off or sell books, but hey can't mention Christ to much lol

One big time Meduim lives here in Baltimore that's been on Skeptico , and I've offered this person five thousand dollars if they could contact any passed family member ,and give me the name of any of three very loved dogs of ours, or anything else personal about any family member who has passed, even close, no takers!!! same with the rest of the fake so called mediums around this area. You know why???? because they are all FAKES!!! Jesus was real, check the link out below. Or email me about it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
 
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#13
Most if not all scholarly historians say the historic Jesus did in fact walk the earth and raddled the cages of the Jewish and Roman authorities of Judea. Note in Historic Jesus link below : "Most biblical scholars and classical historians see the theories of his non-existence as effectively refuted,[2][17][88] and in modern scholarship, the Christ myth theory is a fringe theory and finds virtually no support from scholars.[89][90][91][92][note 2]"

I would add that the Jesus didn't exist myth is on the same line as we didn't land on the moon ; the morons that believe both are one in the same. There is also plenty of evidence of the miracles of Christ at the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
I think Richard Carrier is the most prominent Jesus Mythicist but his case is too neat and tidy...if Paul mentions the "brother of Jesus" it's not actually his brother but a term for a special kind of Christian, for example. The Jesus Mythicist's seem to just have an axe to grind and that's partly why most historians don't take them very seriously.
 
#14
I think Richard Carrier is the most prominent Jesus Mythicist but his case is too neat and tidy...if Paul mentions the "brother of Jesus" it's not actually his brother but a term for a special kind of Christian, for example. The Jesus Mythicist's seem to just have an axe to grind and that's partly why most historians don't take them very seriously.
I'm talking about Jesus just purely existing as human and walking the earth in Judea and hung died on the cross by the Romans . That in fact happened no if and's or buts about it.
 
#16
I'm talking about Jesus just purely existing as human and walking the earth in Judea and hung died on the cross by the Romans . That in fact happened no if and's or buts about it.
I know...a few historians think these things never happened...he was just a spiritual being that was later written about as if he existed on the earth.
 
#17
I'm talking about Jesus just purely existing as human and walking the earth in Judea and hung died on the cross by the Romans . That in fact happened no if and's or buts about it.
My view is that when something may or may not have happened 2000 years ago, which was and is supposed to have enormous religious significance, there may be no way of determining the truth. Remember that the bible was all written many years after his death. Three hundred years after his death, the council of Nicea determined the nature of Christianity.

Who knows what the original truth was.

David
 
#18
My view is that when something may or may not have happened 2000 years ago, which was and is supposed to have enormous religious significance, there may be no way of determining the truth. Remember that the bible was all written many years after his death. Three hundred years after his death, the council of Nicea determined the nature of Christianity.

Who knows what the original truth was.

David
It actually was written not too long after his death compared to most ancient writings. We can't be positive about the facts of his life but sometimes the standard of proof for his existence is treated differently than other historical figures. Most historians have come to conclude that his existence is pretty much a fact. It's extremely more likely than not.
 

Alex

Administrator
#19
lots of good stuff here... thx Daniel.

it is unlikely anyone or any number of people could have come up with such a character whose message focused on love and compassion at a place and time where that kind o radical fiction would be unexpected.
yeah, but it's widely accepted that the Jesus stories were written by a bunch of different people over hundreds of years after the fact. most importantly it seems dependent on the writings of Josephus. the fact that the gospels are dependent on a historian employed by the Romans is problematic.


Consider, for example, that a NDE experience is not necessarily an objective window into the "afterlife" but rather a reflective experience
agreed. Again, this raises more questions than it answers.

it also doesn't fit with christian dogma. christianity is a my way or the highway, special moment in time, religion. it's incompatible with the big tent spirituality it comes through in the near-death experience.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
 
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