David Ditchfield’s Near-Death Experience Turned Him Into an Artist and Composer |453|

#41
Alex asked, "I have a level three kind of question to tee up for you. Is there something beyond the Christian near death-experience? And if there is something beyond it, then can it really be called a Christian near-death experience?"

Although I've never had a near death experience I had a friend, a most unlikely candidate for such, who did. During the event he had what is now referred to as a, "life review" and he insisted while it was playing before his eyes, "like a movie" sitting beside him on the seat of his old truck as it was being struck by a speeding train, "was an Angel." Although the man, of French Canadian descent was likely a baptized Catholic he was far from devout. Jesus was not present in his case but the presence of an, "Angel" who may have been instrumental somehow in sparing his life possibly makes it a Christian experience anyway.
 
#42
I have little experience w/ Jewish people; you can probably imagine there are not many in Texas where I spent most of my working life. I did, however, work w/ a Jewess math teacher who was unfailingly kind & helpful to me; the thing I learned from her was that Jews don't believe in Hell, which backs up the fact that the Christian Hell came along w/ J.C. in the New Testament. They, unfortunately, have their own trouble w/ child molester rabbis & revolting rituals like circumcision that involve the rabbis taking the child's penis in his mouth for no apparent reason other than "It's okay, I'm a spiritual leader & it's part of the ritual." Some orthodox Jewish sects strongly encourage daily prayers of thankfulness for being born a man & require married couples to perform intercourse through a hole in a bed sheet. These fun facts & more are from Hitchen's God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, a great book that really grinds down organized religion.
Yes, I think this is very important - whatever mystical truths may lie at the root of the main religions, these religions seem to go awfully bad with incredible regularity. Perhaps (pure speculation) this is because the priests and academics become detached from actual mysticism - even to the extent of declaring such phenomena as the work of Satan - and after that happens they are simply human beings pretending to be in touch with higher reality.

The sad part is that congregations never seem ready to really force the issue - insisting that priests involved in actual abuse, and other priests who knowingly hid the facts, should show real repentance - maybe publicly confessing all their sins, and asking the authorities to try them and jail them for the appropriate amount of time.

David
 
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#43
Alex asked, "I have a level three kind of question to tee up for you. Is there something beyond the Christian near death-experience? And if there is something beyond it, then can it really be called a Christian near-death experience?"

Although I've never had a near death experience I had a friend, a most unlikely candidate for such, who did. During the event he had what is now referred to as a, "life review" and he insisted while it was playing before his eyes, "like a movie" sitting beside him on the seat of his old truck as it was being struck by a speeding train, "was an Angel." Although the man, of French Canadian descent was likely a baptized Catholic he was far from devout. Jesus was not present in his case but the presence of an, "Angel" who may have been instrumental somehow in sparing his life possibly makes it a Christian experience anyway.
Christian, atheist, Buddhist NDEs are, to me, just a lens for putting an NDE into an understandable form. How about children who have a NDE in the womb up to age 6? I finished watching an interview by Tricia Barker w/ a Ms. Atwater who did research & wrote a book about 397 children who died & came back. Forty-eight percent of them had IQs in the 140-160 range when tested at age 5-6. A similarly large number had synesthesia after their NDEs. The most incredible one was a woman who had 17 NDEs as a child, the first at 6 weeks of age. You may have guessed that her parents were members of a satanic cult who had her just so she could be sacrificed later. The link below is the interview on YouTube. I'd love to say one day, now I've see or heard everything, but it's not likely.
 
#44
I have little experience w/ Jewish people; you can probably imagine there are not many in Texas where I spent most of my working life. I did, however, work w/ a Jewess math teacher who was unfailingly kind & helpful to me; the thing I learned from her was that Jews don't believe in Hell, which backs up the fact that the Christian Hell came along w/ J.C. in the New Testament. They, unfortunately, have their own trouble w/ child molester rabbis & revolting rituals like circumcision that involve the rabbis taking the child's penis in his mouth for no apparent reason other than "It's okay, I'm a spiritual leader & it's part of the ritual." Some orthodox Jewish sects strongly encourage daily prayers of thankfulness for being born a man & require married couples to perform intercourse through a hole in a bed sheet. These fun facts & more are from Hitchen's God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, a great book that really grinds down organized religion.
I don't know if Hitchens, along with the other "New Atheists" were known for their knowledge of religion...I'd argue they were excellent at rhetorical flourish as opposed to actual logical arguments. My problem with religion bashing is it doesn't take into account all the good thing religions have done. Of course there are abuses because its made of human beings...Hitler, Pol Pot and others have done equally awful things and they weren't part of a religion.
 

Alex

Administrator
#45
Thanks, Alex, for the Santa Knows Everything - It's a Miracle. It's just like Ur podcasts point out so often. Look to the Light & everything will be fine! This is the very thing that Ur podcasts bring out so powerfully: that we can be all these people who seem dead-set on working out their problems on Earth or we can turn to the LIght!
thanks for this very kind note :)
 

Alex

Administrator
#46
I have little experience w/ Jewish people; you can probably imagine there are not many in Texas where I spent most of my working life. I did, however, work w/ a Jewess math teacher who was unfailingly kind & helpful to me; the thing I learned from her was that Jews don't believe in Hell, which backs up the fact that the Christian Hell came along w/ J.C. in the New Testament. They, unfortunately, have their own trouble w/ child molester rabbis & revolting rituals like circumcision that involve the rabbis taking the child's penis in his mouth for no apparent reason other than "It's okay, I'm a spiritual leader & it's part of the ritual." Some orthodox Jewish sects strongly encourage daily prayers of thankfulness for being born a man & require married couples to perform intercourse through a hole in a bed sheet. These fun facts & more are from Hitchen's God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, a great book that really grinds down organized religion.
I've met a lot of great Jewish people in my life too. I totally get that a " wisdom tradition" can be very effective at bringing forth the light we talked about in the above post... and at the same time be pushing all the human cult buttons we all seem to fall for so easily :)
 

Alex

Administrator
#47
Christian, atheist, Buddhist NDEs are, to me, just a lens for putting an NDE into an understandable form. How about children who have a NDE in the womb up to age 6? I finished watching an interview by Tricia Barker w/ a Ms. Atwater who did research & wrote a book about 397 children who died & came back. Forty-eight percent of them had IQs in the 140-160 range when tested at age 5-6. A similarly large number had synesthesia after their NDEs. The most incredible one was a woman who had 17 NDEs as a child, the first at 6 weeks of age. You may have guessed that her parents were members of a satanic cult who had her just so she could be sacrificed later. The link below is the interview on YouTube. I'd love to say one day, now I've see or heard everything, but it's not likely.
thanks. I have queued it up. I think atwater's work is super interesting and super important... but she does sometimes fly off the rails a bit :)
 

Alex

Administrator
#48
I don't know if Hitchens, along with the other "New Atheists" were known for their knowledge of religion...I'd argue they were excellent at rhetorical flourish as opposed to actual logical arguments. My problem with religion bashing is it doesn't take into account all the good thing religions have done. Of course there are abuses because its made of human beings...Hitler, Pol Pot and others have done equally awful things and they weren't part of a religion.
hey chris... I've scheduled another interview with joe atwill. I'm really looking forward to it. got to admit that some of your posts have rekindled my interest :)
 

Alex

Administrator
#49
Alex asked, "I have a level three kind of question to tee up for you. Is there something beyond the Christian near death-experience? And if there is something beyond it, then can it really be called a Christian near-death experience?"

Although I've never had a near death experience I had a friend, a most unlikely candidate for such, who did. During the event he had what is now referred to as a, "life review" and he insisted while it was playing before his eyes, "like a movie" sitting beside him on the seat of his old truck as it was being struck by a speeding train, "was an Angel." Although the man, of French Canadian descent was likely a baptized Catholic he was far from devout. Jesus was not present in his case but the presence of an, "Angel" who may have been instrumental somehow in sparing his life possibly makes it a Christian experience anyway.
cool. Thanks for sharing. Reminds me of an earlier post in this thread that quoted raymond moody -- I never get tired of hearing about near-death experience stories :)
 
#50
I don't know if Hitchens, along with the other "New Atheists" were known for their knowledge of religion...I'd argue they were excellent at rhetorical flourish as opposed to actual logical arguments. My problem with religion bashing is it doesn't take into account all the good thing religions have done. Of course there are abuses because its made of human beings...Hitler, Pol Pot and others have done equally awful things and they weren't part of a religion.
As the late, great Swami Satchidananda proclaimed in his Integral Yoga teachings, religion is responsible for the bloodiest wars on record & therefore made it one of his aims to raise of awareness of the Oneness of all religions; Hitchens pointed out that Japanese imperialism firmly rested on their arrogant claim to have descended directly from celestial beings, therefore validating their superiority & ghastly cruelty to all the rest of humanity. Hitler is well-known to have been a twisted advocate of occult practices, even aware then that the catholic church practiced human child sacrifice, which he then projected onto the Jews. Pol Pot, I suspect, had some perverse conception of Eastern beliefs that made his slaughter justifiable. The problem w/ brushing off the stupendous failings of organized religions "b/c its made of human beings" is not just the staggering scope & ongoing nature of the tragedy (visit MurderbyDecree.com), but the horrendous level of hypocrisy.
Now, for something completely different (but not really). watch George Carlin on religion. The middle segment is undeniably the BEST.
 
#51
thanks. I have queued it up. I think atwater's work is super interesting and super important... but she does sometimes fly off the rails a bit :)
Yes, I know what U mean. I did a couple of "The Exorcist" head spins w/ some of those things she came up w/.
 
#52
As the late, great Swami Satchidananda proclaimed in his Integral Yoga teachings, religion is responsible for the bloodiest wars on record & therefore made it one of his aims to raise of awareness of the Oneness of all religions; Hitchens pointed out that Japanese imperialism firmly rested on their arrogant claim to have descended directly from celestial beings, therefore validating their superiority & ghastly cruelty to all the rest of humanity. Hitler is well-known to have been a twisted advocate of occult practices, even aware then that the catholic church practiced human child sacrifice, which he then projected onto the Jews. Pol Pot, I suspect, had some perverse conception of Eastern beliefs that made his slaughter justifiable. The problem w/ brushing off the stupendous failings of organized religions "b/c its made of human beings" is not just the staggering scope & ongoing nature of the tragedy (visit MurderbyDecree.com), but the horrendous level of hypocrisy.
Now, for something completely different (but not really). watch George Carlin on religion. The middle segment is undeniably the BEST.
Well I'd have to disagree with you there...I've heard the argument that these rulers we're just religionists in disguise but I don't think history tells us that. Hitler hated the Jews, simple as that. Not because he was tied to occult practices but just out of sheer hatred. They were the reason the German people were struggling, in his eyes. I don't know much about Pol Pot so I can't say much but what about Stalin? He killed more people than Hitler I believe, but wasn't in a religion. I'm sure we can just say he was a Communist which is a religion...I've heard that argument too. The real issue for me is that people in power will continue to scapegoat others until our collective consciousness rises...Religion specifically is not the issue but a group of people with an unquestioned ideology. It's not as if Religion was gone, there wouldn't be mass tragedies.
 
#53
The real issue for me is that people in power will continue to scapegoat others until our collective consciousness rises...Religion specifically is not the issue but a group of people with an unquestioned ideology. It's not as if Religion was gone, there wouldn't be mass tragedies.
I broadly agree with that, though I would point out that throughout most of history, the unquestioned ideology has come in the form of religion.

David
 
#54
I broadly agree with that, though I would point out that throughout most of history, the unquestioned ideology has come in the form of religion.

David
Of course! It's one of the oldest forms of group identity. I would argue to that we really can't live without it. One thing I learned in my studies of Religion is that it is everywhere...sports, nationalism and politics with it's flags, totems, songs and/or chants. It's that need to belong and be a part of something....it's thoroughly human. Add power to the mix and you have a destructive recipe. A collective awakening is our only real hope imo.
 
#55
One thing I learned in my studies of Religion is that it is everywhere...sports, nationalism and politics with it's flags, totems, songs and/or chants. It's that need to belong and be a part of something....it's thoroughly human.
Um yes, but when I tell someone that I am not interested in football, I don't expect to be burned at the stake.

David
 
#58
Your focus on the religious/Jesus aspect was excellent. The persistence of a belief through time has nothing to do with truth.

The historicity of Jesus is challenged by many lines of evidence. For example, no contemporary historian refers to him. Many early Christians did not believe in a physical Jesus. And most compelling, every doctrine related to him preexisted in pagan religions--time of birth, trinity, passion and execution, savior, resurrection, 12 followers, miracles . . . the whole shebang.

The assumption by some NDEers that they see and talk to Jesus is most likely orchestrated by the powers that be on the other side to make the transition kind and loving, characteristics commonly attached to Jesus..

The author did not claim to be a church goer, but came from a culture in which Jesus is thought of in this way.
 
#59
The assumption by some NDEers that they see and talk to Jesus is most likely orchestrated by the powers that be on the other side to make the transition kind and loving, characteristics commonly attached to Jesus..
Most NDEs have kind and loving characteristics. That's putting it mildly. Commonly the experiencer reports overwhelming love, to an extent not found in this physical life. That occurs regardless of the name assigned to any being encountered.

I've actually been looking for NDE accounts where a powerful spiritual being is encountered AND the being gives his/her/its name. Such accounts are very few. The only one I came across recently was to me unsatisfying. I might even suggest it was fictionalised, though I like to give the benefit of the doubt.

More commonly, the vast majority of accounts which I've heard or read, the only name, if any, is assumed either at the time or maybe with hindsight when recollecting. The person trying to make sense of the experience supplies the name. The being is otherwise nameless.
 
#60
Your focus on the religious/Jesus aspect was excellent. The persistence of a belief through time has nothing to do with truth.

The historicity of Jesus is challenged by many lines of evidence. For example, no contemporary historian refers to him. Many early Christians did not believe in a physical Jesus. And most compelling, every doctrine related to him preexisted in pagan religions--time of birth, trinity, passion and execution, savior, resurrection, 12 followers, miracles . . . the whole shebang.

The assumption by some NDEers that they see and talk to Jesus is most likely orchestrated by the powers that be on the other side to make the transition kind and loving, characteristics commonly attached to Jesus..

The author did not claim to be a church goer, but came from a culture in which Jesus is thought of in this way.
I'm sorry but those claims are incorrect. Those "facts" are all over the internet but you will not find many scholars backing those up. There are more YEC scholars than those who are Jesus Mythicists.
 
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