David Ditchfield’s Near-Death Experience Turned Him Into an Artist and Composer |453|

Alex

Administrator
#81
Most NDEs have kind and loving characteristics. That's putting it mildly. Commonly the experiencer reports overwhelming love, to an extent not found in this physical life. That occurs regardless of the name assigned to any being encountered.

I've actually been looking for NDE accounts where a powerful spiritual being is encountered AND the being gives his/her/its name. Such accounts are very few. The only one I came across recently was to me unsatisfying. I might even suggest it was fictionalised, though I like to give the benefit of the doubt.

More commonly, the vast majority of accounts which I've heard or read, the only name, if any, is assumed either at the time or maybe with hindsight when recollecting. The person trying to make sense of the experience supplies the name. The being is otherwise nameless.
I really like where you're going with this. it does seem like ( and I've certainly been guilty of this) that we can fall into a checklist kind of approach to near-death experience: tunnel... check, life review... check, feeling of love... check, jesus... check.

when in fact, as you point out, what they're really saying is " wow, forget about everything else, that was the most overwhelming experience of love that I've ever encountered"
 

Alex

Administrator
#82
I did leave religion because I didn't agree with all the dogma. I'm still interested in the history part and I think it's pretty obvious that Jesus existed. Josephus did work for the Romans but what does that have to do with the fact that he mentions Jesus?
joe atwill completely crushes this point. I have him booked for another interview soon.
 
#83
The problem is, that almost every discussion on the internet can reduce in the end to a swapping of links on each side of the story.

It doesn't really get you very far. If you argued about psi phenomena with an materialist, you and him would fall down the same rabbit hole.

I did take a look at your link, and came across this:


People who post on Skeptiko in that style, soon get banned (whatever 'side' they claim to support), and I find it a real turn-off. It assumes what it is trying to prove, and attempts to blacken one side of the argument before even presenting his case!

David
I agree with that...I don't usually just send a link but tbh...Atwill's theory is so out there...it's just easier. When you have Carrier and Price(both pariahs in the biblical history community) distancing themselves from you, you better have some amazing new evidence. He's also not a scholar...tbh I wouldn't want want someone without a medical degree to perform surgery on me. I would be careful putting all my eggs in his basket.
 
#84
I agree with that...I don't usually just send a link but tbh...Atwill's theory is so out there...it's just easier. When you have Carrier and Price(both pariahs in the biblical history community) distancing themselves from you, you better have some amazing new evidence. He's also not a scholar...tbh I wouldn't want want someone without a medical degree to perform surgery on me. I would be careful putting all my eggs in his basket.
Actually, Alex would be able to argue this case for better than me - I lost interest in Christianity decades ago! None of my eggs are really in this basket:)

If I needed surgery, I'd certainly want the surgeon to be properly qualified, but on the other hand, I have made some use of alternative medicine, and those people often help patients using much less invasive techniques to avoid surgery in various ways.

David
 
#85
I definitely get your point, but I think we have to pull up on this a bit. I worry that there's an echo chamber within the near-death experience community about this point. for me the bottom line is that we don't understand how these extended consciousness realms work. so we're still in the data collection phase :)

Agreed about the uncertainty of why, but it is a fact that NDE and medium work attest to meeting a variety of religious figures on the other side. What other explanation could there be for that?
 
#86
Agreed about the uncertainty of why, but it is a fact that NDE and medium work attest to meeting a variety of religious figures on the other side. What other explanation could there be for that?
If you read people like Cyrus Kirpatrick or Jurgen Ziewe, they experiences from large numbers of OBE's. They report that the afterlife is an extremely complicated realm in which people live - often no wiser than down here! Although they don't say this explicitly, I wonder if there are Christian communities - and communities of all kinds up there.

Anyway, I think it is important not to mangle the data like materialists tend to do.

David
 

Alex

Administrator
#87
I agree with that...I don't usually just send a link but tbh...Atwill's theory is so out there...it's just easier. When you have Carrier and Price(both pariahs in the biblical history community) distancing themselves from you, you better have some amazing new evidence. He's also not a scholar...tbh I wouldn't want want someone without a medical degree to perform surgery on me. I would be careful putting all my eggs in his basket.
we've covered all this ground... but that's ok... we should cover it again when Atwill comes back on.

Atwill crushes Carrier and Price rolls over:
Joseph Atwill Responds to Caesar's Messiah Critics - Skeptiko
 

Alex

Administrator
#88
Agreed about the uncertainty of why, but it is a fact that NDE and medium work attest to meeting a variety of religious figures on the other side. What other explanation could there be for that?
I've warmed up to the idea that we are co-creators of this reality and whatever reality we might experience extended realms... so, I'm not saying it doesn't work the way you're describing but I just have to wonder if it isn't a lot more complicated than we imagine.
 
#89
I’d go as far as speculating that everyone has a different version/perspective of the hereafter realms and or will use their different learned way of describing the same thing. It seems that some archetypes are encountered and although being an actual phenomenon that is experienced, it must still come back and filtered by this state of life in the continuum to communicate. It appears that our language still is primitive and there are things that can’t be translated equally and some things that seem to appear in a blind spot of this reality.

I also think some people will allow themselves to go further. But for those who can handle more might just be able to handle the crossing of thresholds more skillfully. In my opinion people will go to their own version of the heavenly realms. There is always the observer there no matter how many dives inside.
wonderful summary of my understanding of why not everyone has exactly the same experience of near death. Robert Monroe is a great example of a soul who learned to cross over at will and honed his abilities to do so easily. If you haven't read his 3 books, please do. My wife's dad passed 2 years ago and she says she's like to die to be with him. I have told her that she will see him again, but ancient wisdom tells us that as our various bodies (astral, emotional, etc) drop away, we will likely be drawn away to the vastly more intriguing experience s
 
#90
available to us. For instance, in Monroe's 3rd book, he finds that he can visit his dead wife on the other side, but his great dismay is told that she won't be meeting him any more. She must explore the spiritual realms now. So I cautioned her to not expect a spiritual version of her life with her papa because that realm is no more permanent than this one.
 
#91
I agree. I have come to suspect that the non-physical realms are very complex and varied - just like Earth is - and that you can find just about anything up there. There are presumably places that are based around each of the various religions, and places that see things in a non-religious way.

David
Yes, even Li Hongzhi reports.that there is a heavenly home for Falin Dafa practioners.
 
#92
Agree. I think this happens all the time. Christians die, (as one example, not to pick on Christians) and they see a “powerful and loving white light” and assume that they’ve seen Jesus. And that’s fine. I’m not gonna tell them who they did or didn’t see. And, to be fair, perhaps oftentimes they ARE seeing Jesus. But I think that it’s just as likely that they are often seeing some sort of higher form of Consciousness, maybe even their own “higher selves” but they are thrusted into this powerful and bizarre scenario which they can make little sense of and all That they know how to do is to use their beliefs and inherent cultural biases to explain what happened to them.
l was told by a man who had a NDE that he saw Jesus in the robes and beard and no blazing Light. This is definitely an infinite variety of details that accompanies the general form of near death.
 

Alex

Administrator
#94
l was told by a man who had a NDE that he saw Jesus in the robes and beard and no blazing Light. This is definitely an infinite variety of details that accompanies the general form of near death.
agreed. I keep getting the sense that we're looking at this from one super distorted reality ( this physical world) to another distorted reality ( the vast variety of extended consciousness)
 
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