David Icke, Love Not Fear is The Answer |460|

L

lonevoice

Alex, did you ever read https://perfumedskull.com/2017/02/2...-reflections-on-inyanga-sarah-masheles-story/?? It is driving me crazy to see anyone defend Icke as a major thought leader if they have not seen this exposure of his lizard belief system mentor as a fraud. He can be on target re a number of topics and still be a nut job.

In an era of rampant social engineering it is IMPERATIVE for us to know there are some who think clearly, imperative for our very sanity.
 
Alex, did you ever read https://perfumedskull.com/2017/02/2...-reflections-on-inyanga-sarah-masheles-story/?? It is driving me crazy to see anyone defend Icke as a major thought leader if they have not seen this exposure of his lizard belief system mentor as a fraud. He can be on target re a number of topics and still be a nut job.

In an era of rampant social engineering it is IMPERATIVE for us to know there are some who think clearly, imperative for our very sanity.
Hi LS, note that I have listened to an interview of Icke (perhaps 10 or so years ago) where he has "re-explained" his take on the "shapeshifting reptilians." What he said was that the individual that is perceiving what appears to them to be "reptilian" may actually be experiencing a shift in their own state that leaves them concluding from their experience that an individual "shape shifted." He emphasized that what may have actually shifted was the perceiver's "state" and not the being as the being presents him or herself to be in consensus reality.

Why that hit home with me is that in 1986, I went through a shift in my own state (one of ten different experiences of marijuana induced psychosis) where, in this instance, I walked into a golf course there were three older ladies who worked in the shop and who I am sure I had encountered many times yet this time, when I engaged in conversation with them... all three in different locations of the shop and not at the same time, each of them had what I called at that time "alien eyes" -

alien eyes.png

And so almost two decades later (2002) when I read The Biggest Secret, I wasn't so completely closed minded about the matter. Then, when Icke released the book, Children of the Matrix - I enjoyed the cover as it had a particular personal connection for me based on my experience in 1986 -

alien children of the matrix.png

The point I am trying to make is that our universe is incredibly weird. In addition, sometimes when we have experiences (or, as in the case of Icke, relay stories told to us by others) we can certainly explain things in a way that may not have the complete picture and this, misrepresent something or form conclusions that probably are best left unformed.

Icke took risks, he went with his interpretations and then settled on conclusions that then formed new paradigms (or re-imagined paradigms) and that has been his style for 30 years.

I think we all lose an opportunity when we disregard an information source when they may have gotten some things wrong, even many things wrong, even BIG things wrong when also... they may have gotten some key things right.

Icke was way way ahead of much of the general population, especially the types of folks who ended up appreciating his work with regards to consciousness and IMO, nothing could be more important than that one.
 

Alex

Administrator
Alex, did you ever read https://perfumedskull.com/2017/02/2...-reflections-on-inyanga-sarah-masheles-story/?? It is driving me crazy to see anyone defend Icke as a major thought leader if they have not seen this exposure of his lizard belief system mentor as a fraud. He can be on target re a number of topics and still be a nut job.

In an era of rampant social engineering it is IMPERATIVE for us to know there are some who think clearly, imperative for our very sanity.
first off, love the pushback or should I say the education. I read a good deal of this... it's pretty dang long so I can't say I read it all. here's the part that I think is significant ( please suggest others as you see fit)
====================
For the last decade or so, Mutwa has formed a significant partnership with David Icke, probably the world’s best known and best-selling conspiracy theorist. Icke, who claims that the world is controlled by an elite of transdimensional, blood-drinking, shape-shifting reptilian aliens who steer global economic and political structures for the enslavement of our species, has found in Mutwa a powerful, authenticating voice. Mutwa, who has spoken extensively in recent years about his own varied encounters with extraterrestrials – which he claims to have been kidnapped, tortured and turned homosexual by, to have had sex with and eaten, amongst other things – brings the substantiating weight of timeless tradition to the subject of world-wide alien conspiracy.

How is it then, that a man who scholars in the field of African history and cultural life have labelled a charlatan, that at one time was a firm proponent of Apartheid and opponent of the ANC, that, having suffered numerous run-ins with extraterrestrials, who has claimed that the proper disposal through burial of the rubbish left behind after UFO crash-landings is part of ubiquitously known and timeless ‘African tradition’, could have been consulted by investigators from Scotland Yard as an expert for help in cracking a suspected ‘ritual killing’ in 2005, could have been invited to help design and bless as prestigious a monument as Mandela’s Freedom Park, or could be characterised by neo-shaman Bradford Keeney, his friend and patron, as “one of the most revered medicine men in the world”, “the great spiritual leader of Africa”, on whose head, incongruously, the South African and foreign governments are supposed to have put a bounty?
====================
so, there's a whole lot to process there but let's stick to the Icke stuff. it does seem to me that david icke sometimes plays fast and loose with the"experts" he relies on. I think he's in such a situation regarding kaufman and "covid-19 hasn't been isolated." this is sloppy. it shouldn't happen. and it should be corrected when it does happen. but this truth game is a rough-and-tumble battle.

Ben Joffe, (the author of this post) is quite brilliant... we really gotta get him on Skeptiko... and has some fantastic points about shamanism and anthropology, but I'm still trying to process where he comes down on the UFO / ET thing. I'm digging in and trying to figure it out but if anyone has a handle on it please let me know... the point being that the UFO / ET reality must be the starting point for these kinds of discussions. I go one step further and say that the reptilian reality should be presumed when looking at these cases. so I think you see where I'm going. can somebody help me out and let me know where ben joffe comes down on ET reptilians beyond david icke's understanding of them?
 
first off, love the pushback or should I say the education. I read a good deal of this... it's pretty dang long so I can't say I read it all. here's the part that I think is significant ( please suggest others as you see fit)
====================
For the last decade or so, Mutwa has formed a significant partnership with David Icke, probably the world’s best known and best-selling conspiracy theorist. Icke, who claims that the world is controlled by an elite of transdimensional, blood-drinking, shape-shifting reptilian aliens who steer global economic and political structures for the enslavement of our species, has found in Mutwa a powerful, authenticating voice. Mutwa, who has spoken extensively in recent years about his own varied encounters with extraterrestrials – which he claims to have been kidnapped, tortured and turned homosexual by, to have had sex with and eaten, amongst other things – brings the substantiating weight of timeless tradition to the subject of world-wide alien conspiracy.

How is it then, that a man who scholars in the field of African history and cultural life have labelled a charlatan, that at one time was a firm proponent of Apartheid and opponent of the ANC, that, having suffered numerous run-ins with extraterrestrials, who has claimed that the proper disposal through burial of the rubbish left behind after UFO crash-landings is part of ubiquitously known and timeless ‘African tradition’, could have been consulted by investigators from Scotland Yard as an expert for help in cracking a suspected ‘ritual killing’ in 2005, could have been invited to help design and bless as prestigious a monument as Mandela’s Freedom Park, or could be characterised by neo-shaman Bradford Keeney, his friend and patron, as “one of the most revered medicine men in the world”, “the great spiritual leader of Africa”, on whose head, incongruously, the South African and foreign governments are supposed to have put a bounty?
====================
so, there's a whole lot to process there but let's stick to the Icke stuff. it does seem to me that david icke sometimes plays fast and loose with the"experts" he relies on. I think he's in such a situation regarding kaufman and "covid-19 hasn't been isolated." this is sloppy. it shouldn't happen. and it should be corrected when it does happen. but this truth game is a rough-and-tumble battle.

Ben Joffe, (the author of this post) is quite brilliant... we really gotta get him on Skeptiko... and has some fantastic points about shamanism and anthropology, but I'm still trying to process where he comes down on the UFO / ET thing. I'm digging in and trying to figure it out but if anyone has a handle on it please let me know... the point being that the UFO / ET reality must be the starting point for these kinds of discussions. I go one step further and say that the reptilian reality should be presumed when looking at these cases. so I think you see where I'm going. can somebody help me out and let me know where ben joffe comes down on ET reptilians beyond david icke's understanding of them?
Joffe's thing is Tibetan Buddhism and tantra. So maybe he takes a similar either/or/neither/nor approach to ET. Which can be a little frustrating at times, but is, I suppose, better than coming down hard on either side of the 'nuts and bolts vs. spiritual entities' UFO divide. I think this is reflected in his summing up of Mutwa:

We could paint Mutwa as a genuine native shaman who has been misappropriated by New Age enthusiasts and conspiracy buffs. Then again, we could also think of him as a prime example of a syncretic neo-shaman himself, marketing his cultural wisdom to outsiders through the internet, and developing bizarre and innovative ties with everyone from white Indian medicine men from North America to visiting Tibetan lamas, to foreigners and researchers from outer space ... Certainly, we cannot dismiss Mutwa entirely as a genuine shaman just because what he has to say strikes us as lurid. In mediating between human and non-human persons for healing and social change both in the more immediate context of his South African surrounds and abroad, he is only doing the work any shaman might. Such a pragmatic view collapses categories of ‘authentic’ or ‘fake’, just as, as Chidester points out, Mutwa himself blurs the lines between neo- and native shamanisms ... Mutwa has been able to disseminate South African indigenous knowledge worldwide. The idiosyncratic and personal visionary quality of Mutwa’s knowledge however, complicates overly simplistic conceptions of communal traditional wisdom.

Source: https://perfumedskull.com/2017/02/2...-reflections-on-inyanga-sarah-masheles-story/

Man, I reckon he'd be a great Skeptiko guest. Are you going to get him on?
 

Alex

Administrator
Joffe's thing is Tibetan Buddhism and tantra. So maybe he takes a similar either/or/neither/nor approach to ET. Which can be a little frustrating at times, but is, I suppose, better than coming down hard on either side of the 'nuts and bolts vs. spiritual entities' UFO divide.
Thanks for this... Very helpful... and I do appreciate the dilemma, but at the same time I think academics need to come clean regarding the position they put themselves in. i.e.

"ok, so we were total nitwits about consciousness and extended consciousness dot-dot. We're sorry... We just had to follow along with the prevailing joke/meme in order to survive. and we were told nitwits about UFOs as well. the evidence was there we just chose to ignore it. and as long as we're coming clean we might as well admit that we were total nitwits about ET and about ET abductions. again, a big apology to all of those of you out there who or adversely affected by our nincompoopery. so now, to the issue at hand and whether we should approach this as a nuts-and-bolts or spiritual phenomenon I'm agnostic :)"

I think this is reflected in his summing up of Mutwa:

We could paint Mutwa as a genuine native shaman who has been misappropriated by New Age enthusiasts and conspiracy buffs. Then again, we could also think of him as a prime example of a syncretic neo-shaman himself, marketing his cultural wisdom to outsiders through the internet, and developing bizarre and innovative ties with everyone from white Indian medicine men from North America to visiting Tibetan lamas, to foreigners and researchers from outer space ... Certainly, we cannot dismiss Mutwa entirely as a genuine shaman just because what he has to say strikes us as lurid. In mediating between human and non-human persons for healing and social change both in the more immediate context of his South African surrounds and abroad, he is only doing the work any shaman might. Such a pragmatic view collapses categories of ‘authentic’ or ‘fake’, just as, as Chidester points out, Mutwa himself blurs the lines between neo- and native shamanisms ... Mutwa has been able to disseminate South African indigenous knowledge worldwide. The idiosyncratic and personal visionary quality of Mutwa’s knowledge however, complicates overly simplistic conceptions of communal traditional wisdom.

Source: https://perfumedskull.com/2017/02/2...-reflections-on-inyanga-sarah-masheles-story/

Man, I reckon he'd be a great Skeptiko guest. Are you going to get him on?
great stuff. I think he'd make a great skeptiko of guests let's see if anyone wants to reach out to him :)
 
Last edited:
"ok, so we were total nitwits about consciousness and extended consciousness dot-dot. We're sorry... We just had to follow along with the prevailing joke/meme in order to survive. and we were told nitwits about UFOs as well. the evidence was there we just chose to ignore it. and as long as we're coming clean we might as well admit that we were total nitwits about ET and about ET abductions. again, a big apology to all of those of you out there who or adversely affected by our nincompoopery. so now, to the issue at hand and whether we should approach this as a nuts-and-bolts or spiritual phenomenon I'm agnostic :)"

That's a good sketch! But he's a tantra guy, so maybe it's more 'both/and' than 'either/or'. He also does tarot readings. Here he is as a kiddie. Very sweet.

 
I just want to point out that the links left here about the virus being isolated in Canada all refer to the same team of researchers from Sunnybrook Research Institute, McMaster University and the University of Toronto. So really what we have here is one report from Canada and one from Korea. I don't want to seem nitpicking. Just pointing out that there don't seem to be many different sources about this. I'm glad you found these so that I have something to refer to while re-watching Dr. Kaufman's videos about the research.
 
L

lonevoice

wow I really hope we can get him on. we are either going to be best buds or he's going to hate me :)
Just wanted to show you this, Alex:

July 3, 2020
Chapter 34: Deception of the Ages: How Humanity Was Hijacked over a Quarter Million Millennia Ago and Ruled by Extraterrestrial Slave Masters Ever Since
Joachim Hagopin / https://pedoempire.org ... I skimmed the amazingly long Ch. 34 enough to decide it is insane, but wanted you to see what is out there. David Icke gets one footnote (out of 288), but I do not believe Icke endorses the disgusting text it refers to. The theory as a whole is all Hagopin. His book, Pedophilia & Empire: Satan, Sodomy, & The Deep State, has 39 chapters and incredibly detailed, massive footnotes. I was at first excited to find it for its detailed coverage of pedophila, but put it on hold after I discovered a statement about ET overlords in the second chapter; I'm glad I did now that Chapter 34-- which came out recently-- has spelled the theory out in exhaustive detail. I was even more disappointed to discover the book is sponsored by Robert Steele, who held a tribunal on pedophilia with lots of witness testimonies (ITNJ Commission of Inquiry into Human Trafficking and Child Sex Abuse), which I watched quite awhile back with admiration for Steele's courage.

To me it is a shame that both of these massive efforts--the book and the tribunal-- presuppose the insanity revealed in Chapter 34. In part b/c it passes the buck for horrific sexual abuse and cannibalism to extrterrestrial masters (underground Annuaki reptilians and their above ground shapeshifting cohorts), as against human perpetrators who are monsters.

I find myself unable to endorse the work of Steele and Hagopin. Thank God I learned this.

P.S. The book has been free to read as each chapter is written. It will be published in 2 days and may well stop being free.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Alex

Administrator
I just want to point out that the links left here about the virus being isolated in Canada all refer to the same team of researchers from Sunnybrook Research Institute, McMaster University and the University of Toronto. So really what we have here is one report from Canada and one from Korea. I don't want to seem nitpicking. Just pointing out that there don't seem to be many different sources about this. I'm glad you found these so that I have something to refer to while re-watching Dr. Kaufman's videos about the research.
I might have posted the wrong link:
How a Canadian Research Team Isolated the Coronavirus ...

Ultimately two teams in Canada would isolate the virus for study: one at the University of Saskatchewan and one that featured researchers from McMaster University, Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre and the University of Toronto.
 
funny... I've done a couple of interviews since this where I play people clips from the david icke interview. always start by asking people do you know who david icke is because I know the response that I will get " he's the lizard guy" they say. did ike is one of those characters who becomes a litmus test... you get it or you don't.
I like Icke, but the problem I have with his thinking and others like him is that it seems to me to be too literal, and I'm not really sure where to draw the line between literal/imaginal/psychological and maybe the way reality works is that line is blurred and impossible fully resolve. Perhaps our past isn't even fixed.

Take the reptilians thing for example... perhaps it is not so literal. Some people prefer competition and some prefer cooperation. We're all a mixture, but we could represent those with extremely competitive and unsympathetic natures with the reptile because that is how reptiles operate. Mammals have young that require a lot of care and empathy so empathy and cooperating are mammalian traits. Reptiles once ruled their environment until that environment was destroyed and the mammalian strategy of cooperation and care found greater success in the new environment.

So suppose there is a platonic ideal or psychological archetype of a character that wants to win at all costs or attain power and growth at the expense of anyone and everything else, and that ideal form manifests itself in various instantiations such as snakes and dinosaurs and the reptilian part of our brains and maybe even aliens with scales and slitty eyes. Is the reptile then a projection of part of our collective unconscious that can at times become a physical manifestation? When people say they see shape-shifting reptilians, are they just seeing a temporary symbolic representation? When someone says the elites are reptilians... how literal is that?
 
Sticking with Mr. Icke, but changing direction:

Icke, while describing his Ayahuasca trip, says he came in contact with a 'shimmering' or 'glistening' darkness which he read as being the Source, God, or whatever you want to call it. Eben Alexander describes having had an almost identical encounter with the Unfathomable during his NDE.

This overlap alone is quite interesting. What makes it more so is that the glistening or shimmering darkness makes an appearance in the ancient western mystical literature.

There are two examples I know of. The first dates from the 5th - 6th century and is written by Dionysius, the great and extremely influential mystical theologian of Christianity. Dionysius describes a darkness shining brighter than light. The second reference is from Sufi literature (early medieval, if memory serves, but I could be entirely wrong on this) and also uses the glistening or shining darkness motif.

Now, the usual explanation is that the bright darkness is used as a metaphor to underscore the unfathomable nature of God or perhaps as a cognitive device to break the reader out of old/stale conceptions ( in a similar vein, Dionysius describes God as 'drunk, hung over, awakening from stupor'). So, here the darkness is basically a literary device.

However, given Icke and Alexander's experiences, I have to wonder if it is somehow not much more literal than that?
The source must be the union of opposites so to translate that into a visual metaphor is: bright darkness - shimmering stillness.
 
I like Icke, but the problem I have with his thinking and others like him is that it seems to me to be too literal, and I'm not really sure where to draw the line between literal/imaginal/psychological and maybe the way reality works is that line is blurred and impossible fully resolve. Perhaps our past isn't even fixed.

Take the reptilians thing for example... perhaps it is not so literal. Some people prefer competition and some prefer cooperation. We're all a mixture, but we could represent those with extremely competitive and unsympathetic natures with the reptile because that is how reptiles operate. Mammals have young that require a lot of care and empathy so empathy and cooperating are mammalian traits. Reptiles once ruled their environment until that environment was destroyed and the mammalian strategy of cooperation and care found greater success in the new environment.

So suppose there is a platonic ideal or psychological archetype of a character that wants to win at all costs or attain power and growth at the expense of anyone and everything else, and that ideal form manifests itself in various instantiations such as snakes and dinosaurs and the reptilian part of our brains and maybe even aliens with scales and slitty eyes. Is the reptile then a projection of part of our collective unconscious that can at times become a physical manifestation? When people say they see shape-shifting reptilians, are they just seeing a temporary symbolic representation? When someone says the elites are reptilians... how literal is that?
Again, a great post... Hurmanetar, you hit this one outa the ballpark. The last 2 lines/questions... these are exactly my questions AND, I have already accepted maybe never knowing the answers in any literal way, in any objective way. I have come to rest with the acceptance of the paradox, of the ambiguity.

The source must be the union of opposites so to translate that into a visual metaphor is: bright darkness - shimmering stillness.
Yep...

... and I'm at peace though the world seems to be crumbling.
 
L

lonevoice

Again, a great post... Hurmanetar, you hit this one outa the ballpark. The last 2 lines/questions... these are exactly my questions AND, I have already accepted maybe never knowing the answers in any literal way, in any objective way. I have come to rest with the acceptance of the paradox, of the ambiguity.



Yep...

... and I'm at peace though the world seems to be crumbling.
How do you get to peace after the edge of overwhelm yesterday--tell me how, I need it!
 
L

lonevoice

How do you get to peace after the edge of overwhelm yesterday--tell me how, I need it!
I
I like Icke, but the problem I have with his thinking and others like him is that it seems to me to be too literal, and I'm not really sure where to draw the line between literal/imaginal/psychological and maybe the way reality works is that line is blurred and impossible fully resolve. Perhaps our past isn't even fixed.

Take the reptilians thing for example... perhaps it is not so literal. Some people prefer competition and some prefer cooperation. We're all a mixture, but we could represent those with extremely competitive and unsympathetic natures with the reptile because that is how reptiles operate. Mammals have young that require a lot of care and empathy so empathy and cooperating are mammalian traits. Reptiles once ruled their environment until that environment was destroyed and the mammalian strategy of cooperation and care found greater success in the new environment.

So suppose there is a platonic ideal or psychological archetype of a character that wants to win at all costs or attain power and growth at the expense of anyone and everything else, and that ideal form manifests itself in various instantiations such as snakes and dinosaurs and the reptilian part of our brains and maybe even aliens with scales and slitty eyes. Is the reptile then a projection of part of our collective unconscious that can at times become a physical manifestation? When people say they see shape-shifting reptilians, are they just seeing a temporary symbolic representation? When someone says the elites are reptilians... how literal is that?
Seems pretty literal to me, and as you said Icke means it literally. And so does Hagopin for sure (Pls tell me you saw my post on him--I spent so long writing it and it just fu..ing passes the buck. I think that will be exploited, and already has, by the real perps).
 
I


Seems pretty literal to me, and as you said Icke means it literally. And so does Hagopin for sure (Pls tell me you saw my post on him--I spent so long writing it and it just fu..ing passes the buck. I think that will be exploited, and already has, by the real perps).
I read your post and part of the chapter 34, and I have the same complaint with that guy, Hagopin... taking things too literally.

I'm not saying there isn't a reality to other entities... but this is the same problem with nuts & bolts ufology... yes there's something physical there, but there's something more. Anyone with the tech to warp the spacetime metric is not merely a space traveler or a time traveler, but that tech would make the being a story traveler which is essentially playing the game in god-mode... which is like saying the story we find ourselves in is embedded in a meta-story and who knows what that is about. A dream within a dream. A simulation within a simulation. A fractal. Reality has a nested structure.
 
L

lonevoice

Hagopin's entities live underground. Hollow earth meme. as well as ET slave masters.

Steele believes world leaders are all pedo in great part b/c they are all addicted to adrenochrome.

Makes good old NWO conspiracy seem tame!
 
...which is like saying the story we find ourselves in is embedded in a meta-story and who knows what that is about. A dream within a dream. A simulation within a simulation. A fractal. Reality has a nested structure.
And its always out paradoxing me. The trickster nature that, to me, seems to be at the heart of it all means I really have no choice, accept it (and be at peace) or... fall apart in overwhelm.
 
The source must be the union of opposites so to translate that into a visual metaphor is: bright darkness - shimmering stillness.
Yes, indeed, it is reasonable to assume that something from radically outside of our reality would be seen as if through a glass, darkly, with all sorts of cognitive quirks and interpretive layering involved. Yet, we should remain open, there could be an objective literalness to the image, too. That's always possible. Maybe there are two levels of spiritual experience, or two plains of spiritual experience, one subjective and one objective. Maybe discerning between the two is the real key.
 
Last edited:
Top