David Icke, Love Not Fear is The Answer |460|

Alex, Sorry to hear you are promoting Sabbatai-Frank and David Icke. What happened to following the data where it leads? The show is real dead end for me.
From my understanding, Alex is on a personal exploration which he shares with us. There's zero "promotion" of anything and Alex has never monitized his journey. If a listener doesn't like the questions Alex asks, the responses of his guests and the conversations that take place, then I am sure that listener would be free to not listen.
 
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lonevoice

Alex, Sorry to hear you are promoting Sabbatai-Frank and David Icke. What happened to following the data where it leads? The show is real dead end for me.
Alex has critiqued Sabbatai and Frank a number of times, as radically wicked.
 
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From my understanding, Alex is on a personal exploration which he shares with us. There's zero "promotion" of anything and Alex has never monitized his journey. If a listener doesn't like the questions Alex asks, the responses of his guests and the conversations that take place, then I am sure that listener would be free to not listen.
I didn't mean "promoting" in a monetary sense. Promote means to further the progress, support or actively encourage.
 
Alex has critiqued Sabbatai and Frank a number of times, as radically wicked.
Yes, I am aware that Alex has hooked into Pizzagate and followed the trail back to origins in Sabbatai and Frank. This is a subject which I know quite a lot about. On my father's side, I am descended from a lineage of Kabbalists. I have in PhD in psychology and have an international practice specializing in science, myth, magic and mystery. My father was a leading figure in Zionism. My maternal grandfather was a leader in a messianic cult. I have followed the work of David Icke for decades. Before him Lyndon LaRouche. Before him L Ron Hubbard. I am a wizard.

David icke is a false preacher, as were LaRouche and Hubbard before him. All you need to know is someone who has been sick with Covid-19 to know Icke is spinning a false narrative. Listen to him and feel how your heart responds when he says the word, "Love." That tells you about David icke.

The Sabbatai Frank narrative is a distortion of history grounded in hatred.

As a long time listener and former Skeptiko guest, I am concerned that Alex has fallen into a dark abyss from which he cannot exit.
 
I didn't mean "promoting" in a monetary sense. Promote means to further the progress, support or actively encourage.
Please correct me if I'm wrong: You don't like the concept that Sabbatai-Frankism has any relevance for understanding the modern world. Am I right?

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't see your latest reply.
 
This reminds me, my favorite ever dis of Crowley comes from Gershom Scholem (who was also a Zionist):

“No words need be wasted on the subject of Crowley’s ‘Kabbalistic’ writings in his books on what he was pleased to term ‘Magick,’ and in his journal, The Equinox.” — Gershom Scholem, Major Trends in Jewish Mysticism.

Boom.
 
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This reminds me, my favorite ever dis of Crowley comes from Gershom Scholem (who was also a Zionist):

“No words need be wasted on the subject of Crowley’s ‘Kabbalistic’ writings in his books on what he was pleased to term ‘Magick,’ and in his journal, The Equinox.” — Gershom Scholem, Major Trends in Jewish Mysticism.

Boom.
I agree with Gershom Scholem. He addresses Sabbatai in his book On the Kabbalah and Its Symbolism. I teach my students that we need to know enough about black magic to not practice it. Nothing more. It's out there, no doubt. But to delve into it too deeply, to explore it too closely is to risk being caught in its tentacles. Crowley is another example of an occultist who lost his way in black magic.
 
The Sabbatai Frank narrative is a distortion of history grounded in hatred.
I'm sorry, I'm still being dense...... are you saying that the narrative espoused by Sabbatai Frank is founded in hatred or are you saying the narrative ABOUT Sabbatai Frank is grounded in hatred? Speaking slowly may help. Otherwise, you worry Alex's delving into the dark corners of the world could be dangerous for him, right?
 
I'm sorry, I'm still being dense...... are you saying that the narrative espoused by Sabbatai Frank is founded in hatred or are you saying the narrative ABOUT Sabbatai Frank is grounded in hatred? Speaking slowly may help. Otherwise, you worry Alex's delving into the dark corners of the world could be dangerous for him, right?
I am saying the narrative ABOUT Sabbatai Frank is grounded in hatred. And yes, I am concerned about Alex.
 
As a long time listener and former Skeptiko guest, I am concerned that Alex has fallen into a dark abyss from which he cannot exit.
I get this but would defend Alex's right to explore as he is only sharing with us that very exploration which has helped me personally for over a decade and which, I think, takes lots of guts to do.

Alex also shares his opinions, one seems to be that he doesn't agree with Icke's dismissal of "the virus." And just for the record... I think there is "something" as opposed to "nothing" but what the powers that be have done with it is crimes against humanity. In addition, this "something" may have been artificially created (but the powers that be don't resolve this question and probably can't because they can't be trusted anyways) And also we have the question of "was it intentionally released?" and again (the powers that be don't resolve this question and probably can't because they can't be trusted anyways)
 
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lonevoice

I am saying the narrative ABOUT Sabbatai Frank is grounded in hatred. And yes, I am concerned about Alex.
I still do not understand what you are claiming. You began by expressing your concern that Alex promotes Icke and Sabbati-Frank. I noted to you that he has presented the latter as wicked. You then said yes, he has done his history tracing pedo back to them.. So how can you still claim he is promoting them??

Moreover I totally confused by your saying the narrative about them is grounded in hatred. WHOSE narrative? Alex's??
 
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lonevoice

Alex, Sorry to hear you are promoting Sabbatai-Frank and David Icke. What happened to following the data where it leads? The show is real dead end for me.
Please reframe your claim that Alex promotes Sabbatai and Frank. You seemed to have backed away from it? TY in advance. P.S. I am listening to your interview now, it is fascinating.
 
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Please reframe your claim that Alex promotes Sabbatai and Frank. You seemed to have backed away from it? TY in advance. P.S. I am listening to your interview now, it is fascinating.
I still do not understand what you are claiming. You began by expressing your concern that Alex promotes Icke and Sabbati-Frank. I noted to you that he has presented the latter as wicked. You then said yes, he has done his history tracing pedo back to them.. So how can you still claim he is promoting them??

Moreover I totally confused by your saying the narrative about them is grounded in hatred. WHOSE narrative? Alex's??
The narrative that there is a Jewish cabal that engages in blood sacrifice and secretly controls the world's monetary systems is rooted in medieval anti-Semitism. It comes to the modern period as The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. It was part of the Nazi party's narrative that scapegoated Jews for all of Germany's ills and led directly to the Holocaust. David Icke is aligned with this tradition. The narrative of Sabbatai Frank is a component of this narrative. It is embedded in Pizzagate and now QANON. By promoting Sabbatai Frank, I don't mean he favors them. I mean he is promoting the claim that there is a Jewish cult that worships Satan, murders children and controls the world.
 
I get this but would defend Alex's right to explore as he is only sharing with us that very exploration which has helped me personally for over a decade and which, I think, takes lots of guts to do.

Alex also shares his opinions, one seems to be that he doesn't agree with Icke's dismissal of "the virus." And just for the record... I think there is "something" as opposed to "nothing" but what the powers that be have done with it is crimes against humanity. In addition, this "something" may have been artificially created (but the powers that be don't resolve this question and probably can't because they can't be trusted anyways) And also we have the question of "was it intentionally released?" and again (the powers that be don't resolve this question and probably can't because they can't be trusted anyways)
I wholly defend Alex's right to explore any topic he chooses. There are lots of unanswered questions about the pandemic and the official sources are not trustworthy. So there is a need for credible sources of information of the actual facts. In my opinion, David Icke is not a credible source of information.
 
The narrative that there is a Jewish cabal that engages in blood sacrifice and secretly controls the world's monetary systems is rooted in medieval anti-Semitism. It comes to the modern period as The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. It was part of the Nazi party's narrative that scapegoated Jews for all of Germany's ills and led directly to the Holocaust. David Icke is aligned with this tradition. The narrative of Sabbatai Frank is a component of this narrative. It is embedded in Pizzagate and now QANON. By promoting Sabbatai Frank, I don't mean he favors them. I mean he is promoting the claim that there is a Jewish cult that worships Satan, murders children and controls the world.
In regards to the above post of yours, Dan, which I quoted... is there any truth to reports that within this small stream (a Sabbatian stream that then was carried forward by Jacob Frank (in part via his declaration he was the reincarnation of Sabbatai Zevi)) developed the belief that for "the end of the world" to be brought about, that all must be "good" or, all must be "evil" and that the conclusion was it would be highly unlikely all would ever achieve "good" yet, it seemed far easier to achieve "all to be evil" and that this was what was practiced and taught within this tiny stream?

Because it is the belief that there is truth to this report that some of the conspiracy theorists support. And further to that belief is the belief that this stream survived and is still seeking to generate this ultimate outcome so that the apocalypse will happen (that the end times will occur).

The key questions I have is... is their truth to the original reports and if indeed true, is it possible that a small stream still survives (although surely occulted) today?

Once I have the first question answered and, if true to the first, then the second question answered, I can provide a relevant response to all the rest of your post, Dan.

EDIT ADDED: I will listen to Skeptiko 302 within a few days (lonevoice is recommending it!)
 
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The key questions I have is... is there truth to the original reports and if indeed true, is it possible that a small stream still survives (although surely occulted) today?

Once I have the first question answered and, if true to the first, then the second question answered, I can provide a relevant response to all the rest of your post, Dan.
It's hard to imagine that Jacob Frank's cult still survives. The folks promoting this idea make David Icke look like Walter Cronkite. In any case, it hardly deserves to be included under the banner, Science at the Tipping Point.
 
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The narrative that there is a Jewish cabal that engages in blood sacrifice and secretly controls the world's monetary systems is rooted in medieval anti-Semitism. It comes to the modern period as The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
Yes, I agree. Yet, many of the people who present such a view do not realize its implications and are not themselves anti-Semites, I really believe this. Some very much do and are, obviously.
 
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