Disclosure?

Discussion in 'Consciousness & Science' started by K9!, Dec 17, 2017.

  1. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    Not much right now. I don't want to get into a detailed discussion of Cryptos because it's complicated and boring. I'll just say that it's a Disruptive Technology on par with Gutenberg's printing press, rural electrification, and the World Wide Web.

    Imagine going back in time and telling your teenage Grandfather in 1955 about how disruptive to the economy and society will be Amazon Next Day, Wikileaks, Google steetview, or face-to-face chatting with a man in China on your phone while you bicycle.

    Alien Conspiracies are far more interesting! :D
     
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  2. If crypto currencies don't offer the average person any advantages right now, what advantages will they offer in the future?

    The printing press was disruptive because it took power away from the church - many people could own a bible printed on a printing press. But none of those other things you list come close to threatening government power. If disruptive is defined by analogy to a cell phone, I don't think that is going to provoke the government.


    I am still interested to learn from you how GPG circumvented legislation.
     
  3. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    Yes, I recently subscribed too. There was an active member here last year by the name whitehouseufo. I wonder if that was Grant.

    I’m sure I listened to the skeptiko interview, but until recently I haven’t paid much attention to anything UFO related because it all seemed too unanchored to anything verifiable.

    Cameron does seem more level headed and balanced than many in the field.

    Although from what I recall of your comments in the past, you might take issue with him on the Oneness philosophy. Cameron says that one day he received a “download” where suddenly a bunch of concepts connected in his mind and he understood the “Oneness” and how UFOs are related to consciousness. And if it weren’t for that “download” he would still be in the nuts and bolts crowd. It is also this idea of Oneness that leads him to speak out from time to time whenever somebody like Tom Delonge comes along and has a polarizing message (e.g. All aliens are bad or All Aliens are good) because - Grant says - it’s like the yin yang, there’s a little bit of both in everyone and if you harm others in this life you’ll experience the pain you caused in another life.
     
  4. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    I’m currently interested in both equally! ...especially the combination of blockchain with distributed apps and AI (singularityNet Ben Goertzel) which might give AI an opportunity to self-organize into strong General AI.
     
  5. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    Cryptos and blockchain in general have the potential to eliminate middlemen and parasites in the financial system as well as the potential to decentralize the monetary system which would eliminate the big banks corrupt enterprises and the controlled inflation boom/bust cycle and once again allow market forces to run their course which should make it easier for the average person to create and maintain wealth.
     
  6. Market forces (human psychology) can cause booms and busts without the involvement of evil bankers. The tulip bubble had nothing to do with monetary policy, it was all human psychology.

    Governments decrease or increase the growth of the money supply to reign in booms, reduce the severity of busts, and keep the value of the money stable.

    Will cryptos reduce booms and busts and be more stable in value without anyone trying to do so? Why? (I suppose as you indicated above you think existing problems are deliberately caused, so I am really asking if there are there other reasons.)

    The developers control bitcoin. Ordinary users of it have no input. At least citizens can vote.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
  7. Okay you have the right to avoid my question. But fair is fair and it's also my right to interpret avoidance as a rhetorical device used because you don't have the facts and logic to support your position.

    How did GPG circumvent legislation?
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
  8. Markets can be manipulated without middlemen and evil bankers. That's a large part of why the SEC was created. People were manipulating prices through all sorts of nefarious means. Who will protect crypto-currencies?
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
  9. Where do crypto-currencies get their value from?
     
  10. "Criminals can't hide behind bitcoin." If government power is threatened causing the governent to make all use criminals, no one will be able to use it:
    http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/why-criminals-cant-hide-behind-bitcoin

    Why criminals can't hide behind Bitcoin

    By John Bohannon Mar. 9, 2016

    Ross Ulbricht, the 31-year-old American who created Silk Road, a Bitcoin market facilitating the sale of $1 billion in illegal drugs, was sentenced to life in prison in February 2015. In March, the assets of 28-year-old Czech national Tomáš Jiříkovský were seized; he’s suspected of laundering $40 million in stolen Bitcoins. Two more fell in September 2015: 33-year-old American Trendon Shavers pleaded guilty to running a $150 million Ponzi scheme—the first Bitcoin securities fraud case—and 30-year-old Frenchman Mark Karpelès was arrested and charged with fraud and embezzlement of $390 million from the now shuttered Bitcoin currency exchange Mt. Gox.


    The majority of Bitcoin users are law-abiding people motivated by privacy concerns or just curiosity. But Bitcoin’s anonymity is also a powerful tool for financing crime: The virtual money can keep shady transactions secret. The paradox of cryptocurrency is that its associated data create a forensic trail that can suddenly make your entire financial history public information.

    My point is not that crypto-currencies are doomed, it is that they are not going to be allowed to take power away from the government. The government will legislate whatever it needs to keep power. Crypto-currencies may be disruptive like cell phones or the internet, I don't think they will be disruptive like the printing press which took power from the church.

    https://money.usnews.com/money/pers.../05/15/how-did-bitcoin-become-a-real-currency


    How Did Bitcoin Become a Real Currency?
    Since the currency was introduced in 2009, it has evolved into a billion-dollar market.

    By Richard Satran, Staff Writer | May 15, 2013
    ...

    Why doesn't the government try to stop the illicit trading?

    It has. The growth of bitcoins led to action. As of March, the U.S. Department of Treasury's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network has ruled that bitcoins will be regulated as a real currency. This will allow users who adhere to monetary regulations to keep trading and using bitcoins, but will subject the currency to existing rules on money laundering and bank-reporting requirements, meaning more transparency. Many legitimate backers of bitcoins applauded this as a big step forward. Secrecy advocates have vowed to keep doing business as usual and scoffed at the notion it can be regulated.

    [See: 6 Virtual Currencies That Went Bust]

    So how will that regulation work?

    Buyers whose bitcoins that are ultimately converted to spendable dollars risk prosecution if they fail to report transactions of $10,000 or more. FinCEN works with foreign governments as well as domestic law enforcement. Its increasing use of advanced technology can detect unusual money flows in and out of the banking system. It will be a huge deterrent to hidden transactions and a setback for the $10 trillion global black market in which the virtual currency was becoming the coin of the realm.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
  11. Trancestate

    Trancestate Member

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  12. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    Well yes, except that people use software devised by people who really do know what they are doing. Remember that one of the mistakes which helped the allies was that fact that certain documents always started in the same fashion. I think a good way to counter this (at the encrypting end) would be to compress the original message and then mix in a lot of noise in such a way that it could be removed again at the other end, and only then encrypt it. The noise would help defeat any search for patterns that help others to decode it without the key.

    One way to look at this is to imagine one doubling of computer power to each side. The encrypting side uses this extra power to sequentially apply two good but different encrypting algorithms to the information. A potential decrypter will then have a much larger workload to decipher the mess.

    David
     
  13. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    Same here. I waded through the whole UFO thing many years ago and concluded the whole thing was so wadded up with skekel-grubbing con-men, mentally ill people, religious nuts, and government disinfo as to be useless.

    This new "disclosure" push is interesting because it's so strong, and plays to my conspiracy interests.

    That part does bother me. At the end of the last Cameron video I posted he straight-up says "Communism will work when the Space Brothers bring it!". I just roll my eyes and fast-forward.

    Cameron's up-to-date news and excellent detailed summaries of the day-to-day developments are so good I can easily ignore his hippy-dippy commie religious nonsense. That sentiment among old Boomers does however play right into my Childhood's End thesis.
     
  14. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    Jim, I'm not trying to be disrespectful or win any rhetorical contest.

    The honest truth is that I was interested when I was young because I have a Master's Degree in Public Policy from a world-class university with a minor in Economics, so, I spent a solid 10 years on the Mises.org and Bitcointalk.org forums debating Central Banking, Cryptology, Fed monetary policy, and Austrian vs. Keynesian Economics daily.

    It's now utterly boring to me and I have zero interest in discussing it in depth. Nothing against you.
     
  15. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    Metabunk is my go-to site for the best "other side of the argument" info on chemtrails, UFO's, and vaccine stuff.

    They suck at history and political conspiracy, but their sciencey stuff is good.
     
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  16. They know what they are doing according to theoretical considerations. They also have a bias handicap they want it to be impossible to decrypt.

    No one knows the practical considerations of decryption except those who make a serious effort to decrypt.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/nsa-gchq-encryption-codes-security


    Revealed: how US and UK spy agencies defeat internet privacy and security

    US and British intelligence agencies have successfully cracked much of the online encryption relied upon by hundreds of millions of people to protect the privacy of their personal data, online transactions and emails, according to top-secret documents revealed by former contractor Edward Snowden.

    The files show that the National Security Agency and its UK counterpart GCHQ have broadly compromised the guarantees that internet companies have given consumers to reassure them that their communications, online banking and medical records would be indecipherable to criminals or governments.

    The agencies, the documents reveal, have adopted a battery of methods in their systematic and ongoing assault on what they see as one of the biggest threats to their ability to access huge swathes of internet traffic – "the use of ubiquitous encryption across the internet".

    Those methods include covert measures to ensure NSA control over setting of international encryption standards, the use of supercomputers to break encryption with "brute force", and – the most closely guarded secret of all – collaboration with technology companies and internet service providers themselves.
    ...
    "For the past decade, NSA has lead [sic] an aggressive, multi-pronged effort to break widely used internet encryption technologies," stated a 2010 GCHQ document. "Vast amounts of encrypted internet data which have up till now been discarded are now exploitable."

    An internal agency memo noted that among British analysts shown a presentation on the NSA's progress: "Those not already briefed were gobsmacked!"​

    Every new encryption scheme is unbreakable ... until it is cracked. And the reward / motivation for cracking bitcoin is huge.

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/07/technology/nicehash-bitcoin-theft-hacking/index.html
    Hackers have carried out a heist on a leading digital currency platform, making off with bitcoins worth more than $70 million.​

    Who is going to help victims get their money back - bitcoin is decentralized? Banks have guarantees against unauthorized transactions.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  17. "Disclosure?"

    Evidently not: "The most detailed reports, Elizondo claims, remain classified. The Pentagon has released only about 50% of what the AATIP accumulated during its existence."

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/2504...d-beyond-reasonable-doubt-says-emily-zanotti#
     
  18. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    Regardless of what amount of material remains classified, it is still a milestone.

    Release some juicy bits before the holiday season and let everyone digest that with their turkey... gauge public reaction... everything still cool in January? Okay, release a bit more.
     
  19. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    I'm betting the slow-drip will increase in intensity over the next few years.

    Think of the fun if it becomes a big issue for the 2020 Presidential election.

    Some "verified" video of the Space Brothers buzzing our nukes or stealing a little girl would do it.
     
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  20. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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