Do ouija boards work?

Perhaps it is indeed paranormal. Though some psychic abilities may be stronger when someone believes in such ability, that isn't necessarily a precondition. Being sceptical is in any case a valuable asset when carrying out a scientific experiment. (Though a ouija session may not necessarily be framed as a formal scientific experiment).

I agree. Perhaps it is. My issue was that Jim Smith claimed it was paranormal simply because veridical information was obtained, not that perhaps it was. Big difference.
 
I'd say it depends on the nature and complexity of the information. If one accepts that psi effects may be true, and given that there is so little known about the potential mechanism, it is possible that even the most cynical sceptic might inadvertently make use of this faculty without realising it I would have thought.

I agree.
 
She thought she was. Bipolar.


I'd be tempted to automatically dismiss claims of being Christ.

~~ Paul
I meant did she really think she was Christ, not bipolar (although that's an interesting point).

I couldn't argue with your position on her claim really. Clearly she was very ill. Plus you knew she was ill presumably and not just because she claimed to be Christ. In this instance you had a lot of background information and no evidence supporting such a claim but her own word, also that her view of the situation was coloured by her condition and perhaps your knowledge that sometimes this and similar conditions lead to similar claims.
 
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The Devil is in "I know for a fact." Also, how many different answers would he have accepted? Tough to know.

~~ Paul

Yes it is tough for you to know without the background knowledge of the person. I wouldn't expect a stranger to simply take my word and on that basis accept such phenomena as a fact. As I wasn't present myself I don't know it for a fact that the information my dad gave me was given him exactly as he said. I am satisfied that the participants would not have known the Information though and that it is unlikely he would have been tricked into revealing it.

In this case though I do know the principal witness very well, and his description of the circumstances and of what occurred, as a result my inclination is to accept what he told me as being truthful.
 
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If you get a bunch of people together, set a Ouija board down and have no one touch it, and it starts moving and making messages anyway, then it's more likely something abnormal is occurring. Otherwise, all it takes is a slight muscle movement in one direction and everyone starts shifting the pointer around.

It's not necessarily 'more likely', since other things also other things move around all by themselves like compass needles, etc. I think johnyudodis, above, is right when he says it's subconscious movements in the person, like divining rods.
 
This is what I was thinking, I think things like this make it problematic for attempting to do any serious research into genuine paranormal phenomena

It shouldn't be problematic, you can just set up all sorts of tests for these things, often you can show what has happened, if you can't, then you just say you don't know, or the tests are inconclusive. But to jump to the conclusion that it's para-normal or super-natural would be false logic.
 
Definitely, it's important to find a balance between keeping an open mind and maintaining a level of skepticism, when you go too far one way your world view become incredible skewed

Don't those two terms, open minded and sceptical mean the same thing? You might be sceptical about a certain claim, but since you're open minded, you will accept the result of a test. Scientists are supposed to be open minded and sceptical at the same time. Some guys were sceptical that the super collider would show that the higgs bozen existed, then when it did, they accepted the finding.
 
The problem is the general view of reality people hold. I've said in the past that Jesus himself could return to the Earth, and a lot of people would initially probably think it was BS, they were hallucinating/dreaming, or the devil was playing tricks on them. Most people are set, at least subconsciously, as not recognizing anything beyond the "norm" they see every day as possible. But, of course, science has shown us that even what we consider normal and stable is, when you get right down to it, not really either of those.

I don't think that right when you say that ''science has shown us that.......'' Rather science has shown that what a lot of people thought was normal or stable was proven not to be, and some things that they DIDN't think were normal or stable, were. Some people thought the world was flat, but when it was proven that it is round, you couldn't say it's a matter of their 'view of reality', but what is true or false in that case. The ones who didn't accept the proof, like the flat earthers, are just irrational.
 
I don't think that right when you say that ''science has shown us that.......'' Rather science has shown that what a lot of people thought was normal or stable was proven not to be, and some things that they DIDN't think were normal or stable, were. Some people thought the world was flat, but when it was proven that it is round, you couldn't say it's a matter of their 'view of reality', but what is true or false in that case. The ones who didn't accept the proof, like the flat earthers, are just irrational.

although ones may try to say " people who claim the earth is round are using pseudoscientific methods, based on our observation spherical objects cannot hold other objects very well, are we supposed to believe that some magical force keeps us from falling into space but at the same time not pinning us to the ground, even worse allowing birds to fly?" obviously this it not the case but you can see how if some people may want to dismiss something as "woo" simply because it makes them question their world view. i think this is what happens with certain studies regarding paranormal phenomena
 
although ones may try to say " people who claim the earth is round are using pseudoscientific methods, based on our observation spherical objects cannot hold other objects very well, are we supposed to believe that some magical force keeps us from falling into space but at the same time not pinning us to the ground, even worse allowing birds to fly?" obviously this it not the case but you can see how if some people may want to dismiss something as "woo" simply because it makes them question their world view. i think this is what happens with certain studies regarding paranormal phenomena

Not sure if I even understand your message right. I see some people dismiss super-natural notions as woo, not because it questions their world view, but because they're irrational, don't make sense, are not proven.
Nobody could really say that's it's only a 'claim' that the earth is round, because it's actually been proven to be round, in several ways. The ancient greeks did it via math alone, and in modern times we've done it in other ways. I myself have proven it personally, by flying in planes in the same direction, circling the earth, and landing in the same place.
It's not 'spherical objects' per se that hold objects, but it's the mass that affects gravity. The more massive a body, the stronger the gravitational pull.
 
although ones may try to say " people who claim the earth is round are using pseudoscientific methods, based on our observation spherical objects cannot hold other objects very well, are we supposed to believe that some magical force keeps us from falling into space but at the same time not pinning us to the ground, even worse allowing birds to fly?" obviously this it not the case but you can see how if some people may want to dismiss something as "woo" simply because it makes them question their world view. i think this is what happens with certain studies regarding paranormal phenomena

Start a thread on one of them: let's take a close look at the methodology.
 
Not sure if I even understand your message right. I see some people dismiss super-natural notions as woo, not because it questions their world view, but because they're irrational, don't make sense, are not proven.
Nobody could really say that's it's only a 'claim' that the earth is round, because it's actually been proven to be round, in several ways. The ancient greeks did it via math alone, and in modern times we've done it in other ways. I myself have proven it personally, by flying in planes in the same direction, circling the earth, and landing in the same place.
It's not 'spherical objects' per se that hold objects, but it's the mass that affects gravity. The more massive a body, the stronger the gravitational pull.
As I stated, this is merely an example and with your evidence one could say you simply circled the world in a similar fashion to travelling around a large round about this bringing you to the same spot, you simply fooled yourself everything else is a pseudo science (of course I don't believe this statement as true but apply it to the critiques of ndes or mediums etc) it happens. Some things seem irrational and indeed turn out to be false, however most skeptics I encounter (I.e. Jref forums) simply seek to debunk a claim regardless of how ridiculous their counter argument is
 
Pretty easy to implement ouija board controls: blind folds, turning the board, mixing around the letters.

I've seen controlled ouija board studies that didn't work. If anyone knows of one that did please post it.
 
As I stated, this is merely an example and with your evidence one could say you simply circled the world in a similar fashion to travelling around a large round about this bringing you to the same spot, you simply fooled yourself everything else is a pseudo science (of course I don't believe this statement as true but apply it to the critiques of ndes or mediums etc) it happens. Some things seem irrational and indeed turn out to be false, however most skeptics I encounter (I.e. Jref forums) simply seek to debunk a claim regardless of how ridiculous their counter argument is
If they said I just circled around like in a roundabout, then they would be wrong because they would be ignoring that that a compass showed that I was travelling in the same direction, and in fact I've done it both east to west, AND west to east. If they don't accept compasses, then that's just their irrationality. That's one of the reasons why a lot of people don't even bother to have conversations with such people since it's an 'a priori' condition that both parties in a conversation be rational.
 
That's the point, they'll say "how can you prove the compass hasn't been tampered with, this is really anecdotal" I've seen his rationale before, it still baffles me. There's healthy skepticism and then there's down right stupidity
 
That's the point, they'll say "how can you prove the compass hasn't been tampered with, this is really anecdotal" I've seen his rationale before, it still baffles me. There's healthy skepticism and then there's down right stupidity

Sure, but you see it the other way too: (Ie: you're just nitpicking, you just think everyone is a fraud, that guy has no reason to lie so we should presume everything he says is accurate unless you can point out a specific lie)

The shooting from the hip kind of comments are rarely going to be all that solid. But the hip shooters on both sides shouldn't distract from the fact that there are underlying concerns on both sides that deserve serious discussion.
 
That's the point, they'll say "how can you prove the compass hasn't been tampered with, this is really anecdotal" I've seen his rationale before, it still baffles me. There's healthy skepticism and then there's down right stupidity

Yes, the objection that the compasses have been tampered with is just irrational. We know that people, for that past thousand years or more, have depended on compasses working. They've been tested and been proven to work, ouiji boards haven't.
 
Sure, but you see it the other way too: (Ie: you're just nitpicking, you just think everyone is a fraud, that guy has no reason to lie so we should presume everything he says is accurate unless you can point out a specific lie)

The shooting from the hip kind of comments are rarely going to be all that solid. But the hip shooters on both sides shouldn't distract from the fact that there are underlying concerns on both sides that deserve serious discussion.
Yes, the objection that the compasses have been tampered with is just irrational. We know that people, for that past thousand years or more, have depended on compasses working. They've been tested and been proven to work, ouiji boards haven't.
Hence why I said a "healthy level of skepticism" must be kept, blind faith or blind or complete dismissal aren't very good methods to approach a topic.arouet

Mel I wasn't talking about ouija boards in particular (as I stated before I'm highly skeptical of their ability and feel it is a subconscious mind moving the planchette, unless someone can conduct a test to show otherwise). I was referring to phenomena in general that gets rejected based on weak speculation or highly unlikely claims
 
Pretty easy to implement ouija board controls: blind folds, turning the board, mixing around the letters.

I've seen controlled ouija board studies that didn't work. If anyone knows of one that did please post it.

Yes, and no matter how many times they're disproven, people will still irrationally believe in them.
 
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