Do the Multiverses of Science Preclude Absurdity?

Discussion in 'Critical Discussions Among Proponents and Skeptics' started by Sciborg_S_Patel, Apr 4, 2014.

  1. World next door: Nine theories of the multiverse promise everything and more. But if reality is so vast and varied, where do we fit in?

    So you could have an evil twin out there, and there could be unicorns...at one point the author says there might be Hells and gods and a Star Trek Universe.

    It's hard to take this seriously, in light of:

    We already have a few results in support of the Copenhagen Interpretation after all.
     
  2. I have been reading a book that suggested the possibility of the existence of parallel universes. Is this theory still considered to be too "far out" to be generally accepted? asks George Lange

     
  3. A concert pianist of 20 years comes to the stage. Instead of playing, she simply belches the tunes to a few children songs.

    The audience weeps, many claiming they felt they were in the presence of God that night. Only 1 out of 3 people outside the concert hall feel anything was amiss when hearing the story.

    Is this possible in one of the multiverses? As I recall before the thread got gobbled up the following arguments were suggested:

    1) Dealing with infinities of this magnitude can cause low probabilities to result in zero manifestations of absurdity.
    2) Evolution precludes this kind of absurdity which is why we don't see it. Though I do wonder about low probability physical events - isn't there a universe where results from QM seem sensible or just fundamentally inaccurate to reality?
     
  4. Questions About the Multiverse (posted in 2011)

     
  5. Haruhi

    Haruhi New

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    The interpretation of quantum theory I prefer is decoherence, so I do not accept that all quantum possibilities are real or that the collapse is caused by an observation.
     
  6. Seems like Bo[h]rs' ideas about consciousness causing collapse might be on to something, looking at certain results discussed here & here+here?

    Also the biologist Kauffman offers a very theoretical explanation for how consciousness might collapse the wave function in the way Bors suggests which utilizes decoherence:

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2010/04/to_be_is_to_be_perceived_the_q.html
     
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  7. Arouet

    Arouet Member

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    I still haven't figured out why if consciousness collapses wave functions and if conciousness is fundamental and everything is the product of conciousness then how would there be uncollapsed wave functions?
     
  8. Seems like this was meant for one of the Idealism threads? It seems to me Mind would be everything, rather than conscious attention.

    But I find most arguments for Idealism are often better applied to the more - IMO - conservative position of Neutral Monism. Same with arguments about how Materialism is inadequate. Chalmers goes over both Neutral Monism & failure of Materialism in Consciousness and Its Place In Nature.
     
  9. Medieval bishop's theory resembles modern concept of multiple universes

     
  10. Science's Alternative to an Intelligent Creator: the Multiverse Theory: Our universe is perfectly tailored for life. That may be the work of God or the result of our universe being one of many.

    eta: Since that's from 2008, here's a 2014 article:

    Multiverse Controversy Heats Up over Gravitational Waves

     
  11. Physics’s pangolin: Trying to resolve the stubborn paradoxes of their field, physicists craft ever more mind-boggling visions of reality

     
  12. nbtruthman

    nbtruthman New

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    ...."the multiverse may well be the only viable nonreligious explanation for what is often called the “fine-tuning problem”—the baffling observation that the laws of the universe seem custom-tailored to favor the emergence of life."

    The multiverse concept is no panacea solving the fine tuning problem of materialism. The multiverse itself still needs some explanation of why or how it exists and why it has the particular characteristics and principles it has, rather than there being absolutely nothing. If the multiverse exists, its particular nature and principles still lead to our own existence, and this is just a further example of "meta fine tuning". The ultimate explanation could be religious or spiritual invoking a creator God, or could just assume the multiverse exists within a higher meta-reality within a yet higher reality on and on ad infinitum with no beginning and no end (and therefore no creator). It seems to me the creation hypothesis is no more irrational than the alterative.
     
  13. nbtruthman

    nbtruthman New

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    It just pushes the fine tuning dilemma off by one remove, at the cost of bringing in pseudoscientific hypotheses that can't even in principle be subject to experimental verification. Even if a multiverse exists, it still leaves the deepest mysteries of nature unexplained. The mysteries of why there is something not absolutely nothing, why this something just happens to have such a nature as to produce separate universes rather than something else which we can't even conceive of, why this mechanism produces natural laws varying within the range required for carbon-based life, why mathematics understandable to humans so conveniently describes the physical world, what is the nature of consciousness and why it exists, it goes on. And does the multiverse concept also run into the Occam's Razor objection of unnecessarily multiplied subhypotheses?
     
  14. Pseudophysics: The New High Priesthood

    Additionally there's some stuff on the "Ex Nihilo" question:

    Aczel takes Krauss to task on this later in this article:

     
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  15. ghost

    ghost New

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    I personally disagree with the multiverse interpretation of quantum mechanics on the grounds that it would be highly unstable. Conservation of energy would disintegrate with all those universes popping into existence.

    Now on the other hand, the grey aliens have proven that the eigenstates are not real, but are in fact states in a quantum field. This is the proof. How do aliens abduct humans and pass them through closed windows and through walls? Abductees are very certain that it was a physical experience. Here is how. The aliens have the technology to push particles into a particular set of quantum states. When the abductee is being passed through a window or a wall, the particles of the abductee are pushed into one set of quantum states, while the particles of the wall are pushed into another set of quantum states, such that there is the highly improbable scenario that when the abductee reaches the wall, the atoms of the abductee and the wall just happen to miss each other. It's highly improbable, impossible, with just human technology. But with alien technology, it can happen.

    Just to be clear, it is the quantum field that exists and has lots of possible quantum states available for each particle. For those not familiar with quantum mechanics, the aliens just move the atoms of the wall out of the way.
     
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  16. steve001

    steve001 Member

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    You should keep in mind this especially the underlined sentence:
     
  17. Right, the grand dream of materialists that the world is a meaningless Abyss in which your atoms march you involuntarily from birth to oblivion has yet to be proven. And as Hoffman notes, it's unlikely such a thing could ever be done.

    Of course if reality is akin to a dream, that would be a different thing than what Aczel criticizes...

    Given he wrote Why Science Does Not Disprove God I'm guessing Aczel is taking a different position than yours. Admittedly I've not yet listened to the interview in which he criticizes the manipulation of the New Atheists on the subject of Science & God, so I don't know the particulars of his position.
     
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  18. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    I always wonder if the fine tuning dilemma may be illusory, because it assumes that the relevant physics is necessarily complete.

    To make a trivial analogy, suppose that people had agonised over the 'fine tuning' that makes the charge on the electron exactly opposite that on a proton!

    Fine tuning arguments also depend on us being able to accurately predict the behaviour of universes with different constants - right down to questions of chemistry and life! I seriously doubt if we could do that calculation accurately for a universe with radically different values for the constants.

    David
     
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  19. ghost

    ghost New

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    I think that several arguments can be made to support the likelihood that spiritualism is true. There are so many ghost stories, angels, nde experiences and even alien abduction experiences that the skeptic vision of reality is most likely incomplete. The reincarnation phenomena is supported by stacks of data. Quantum Physics Is Easily Compatible With The Existence Of spirits. It all leads up to the question of what spirit or spirits are there that can alter the laws of physics. Or what does it take to alter the laws of physics. The Grey aliens can do it. Will we?
     

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