Does Anyone Else Wonder This?

#1
If the claims of people like Greer are to be believed, there exists zero-point energy devices that could completely eliminate poverty and give every single person on the planet complete access to electricity free of charge, which would be a remarkable achievement. Also, if the claims of these researchers are to be believed, there are multiple alien races already living on Earth. Personally, I don't know how you could continue to go about your day to day life working a job, making money,etc.. having been exposed to such fantastic information (if it is indeed true). It would make everything we have established as a civilization seem relatively useless in comparison.

I don't know. I guess to really believe and experience the things that some of these researchers are saying, I don't know how you could go about pretending to live your life- it would just seem like such BS in comparison.
 
#2
If the claims of people like Greer are to be believed, there exists zero-point energy devices that could completely eliminate poverty and give every single person on the planet complete access to electricity free of charge, which would be a remarkable achievement. Also, if the claims of these researchers are to be believed, there are multiple alien races already living on Earth. Personally, I don't know how you could continue to go about your day to day life working a job, making money,etc.. having been exposed to such fantastic information (if it is indeed true). It would make everything we have established as a civilization seem relatively useless in comparison.

I don't know. I guess to really believe and experience the things that some of these researchers are saying, I don't know how you could go about pretending to live your life- it would just seem like such BS in comparison.
Where's the link?
 
#3
I googled a bit, and found this: https://new.cseti.org/

He is described as a "ufologist" online. I don't know what to make of these claims, personally. Extraterrestrials are a bit outside of my interest area (I am more fascinated by what science could tell us about human consciousness and its potential survival after physical death).

I believe Harold Morowitz once calculated (at NASA's behest) that the universe would need to be 1 trillion times larger and 1 trillion times older than we know it to be for additional intelligent life to be statistically probable (sorry, don't know where to find a link to the assertion).

On the other hand, if one subscribes to any type of string theory (and lots of materialists do), then there are as many as 26 dimensions of space and for all intents and purposes, three-dimensional species like us would not know of anything existing within a higher dimension. Neil Degrasse-Tyson uses the example of ants, which exist in a two-dimensional universe. As far as the ant is concerned, the human being does not exist. As far as the human being is concerned, any 4th dimensional (or higher) being does not exist. So, yeah....there could be alien species all around us, in theory. I don't know anything about Dr. Greer's specific research and if it relates to this, and again, since it's not a real area of interest for me I don't feel inclined to read more of that site.
 
#4
I googled a bit, and found this: https://new.cseti.org/

He is described as a "ufologist" online. I don't know what to make of these claims, personally. Extraterrestrials are a bit outside of my interest area (I am more fascinated by what science could tell us about human consciousness and its potential survival after physical death).

I believe Harold Morowitz once calculated (at NASA's behest) that the universe would need to be 1 trillion times larger and 1 trillion times older than we know it to be for additional intelligent life to be statistically probable (sorry, don't know where to find a link to the assertion).

On the other hand, if one subscribes to any type of string theory (and lots of materialists do), then there are as many as 26 dimensions of space and for all intents and purposes, three-dimensional species like us would not know of anything existing within a higher dimension. Neil Degrasse-Tyson uses the example of ants, which exist in a two-dimensional universe. As far as the ant is concerned, the human being does not exist. As far as the human being is concerned, any 4th dimensional (or higher) being does not exist. So, yeah....there could be alien species all around us, in theory. I don't know anything about Dr. Greer's specific research and if it relates to this, and again, since it's not a real area of interest for me I don't feel inclined to read more of that site.
Perhaps the psi phenomena involves the bending of our three dimensions (four dimensions if we involve time) and interphase with other dimensions, some people are better at this than others. The after effects of NDE or alien encounter are due to enhanced awareness (or memories) of these dimensions.
 
#5
Perhaps the psi phenomena involves the bending of our three dimensions (four dimensions if we involve time) and interphase with other dimensions, some people are better at this than others. The after effects of NDE or alien encounter are due to enhanced awareness (or memories) of these dimensions.
I've thought about this, too, and yeah, in my (very) non-expert opinion, perhaps psi phenomena are an interaction between 4th dimensional beings and our 3rd dimensional experience of the universe.

I believe Dr. Degrasse-Tyson actually does sort of assert as much (although of course does not link it to psi). Consider the ant: if the ant were crawling beneath a sheet of paper (not a perfect example because paper is actually 3 dimensional, but let's assume it is a perfectly 2 dimensional plane), and if we were then to pick up that same sheet of paper and expose the ant, then....well...the ant would experience this as something of a phenomena, right? The ant would not know that there is a physical actor that has lifted the sheet of paper. To them, it would be as though the sheet of paper has levitated.

When we hear "ghost stories" it is often of objects appearing as though they are lifted and quickly dropped, etc. To a 4th dimensional being, this would be entirely mundane. In fact, just as we wouldn't assume that we are confusing the ant when we lift the paper, a 4th dimensional being probably doesn't assume that they are confusing us by lifting and dropping an object. After all, their 4 dimensional nature does not inhibit or preclude them in any way from interacting with 3 dimensional objects....not anymore than we are unable to interact with or perceive 2 dimensional objects. We do that *all the time*....I'm doing it right now, and you are, too, just by reading this.

Some psi-- some of the mediums-- has/have been proven to be fraudulent, but not all, and this may work some day to explain the cases in which we have huge discrepancy between the material explanation of the world, and the inexplicable.
 
#6
Hi everyone. This seems like an interesting thread, but it should not be placed among the podcasts. I will try and move the whole thread somewhere more suitable later today. Can anyone explain how it got here?

David
 
#7
I've thought about this, too, and yeah, in my (very) non-expert opinion, perhaps psi phenomena are an interaction between 4th dimensional beings and our 3rd dimensional experience of the universe.

I believe Dr. Degrasse-Tyson actually does sort of assert as much (although of course does not link it to psi). Consider the ant: if the ant were crawling beneath a sheet of paper (not a perfect example because paper is actually 3 dimensional, but let's assume it is a perfectly 2 dimensional plane), and if we were then to pick up that same sheet of paper and expose the ant, then....well...the ant would experience this as something of a phenomena, right? The ant would not know that there is a physical actor that has lifted the sheet of paper. To them, it would be as though the sheet of paper has levitated.

When we hear "ghost stories" it is often of objects appearing as though they are lifted and quickly dropped, etc. To a 4th dimensional being, this would be entirely mundane. In fact, just as we wouldn't assume that we are confusing the ant when we lift the paper, a 4th dimensional being probably doesn't assume that they are confusing us by lifting and dropping an object. After all, their 4 dimensional nature does not inhibit or preclude them in any way from interacting with 3 dimensional objects....not anymore than we are unable to interact with or perceive 2 dimensional objects. We do that *all the time*....I'm doing it right now, and you are, too, just by reading this.

Some psi-- some of the mediums-- has/have been proven to be fraudulent, but not all, and this may work some day to explain the cases in which we have huge discrepancy between the material explanation of the world, and the inexplicable.
Very interesting ideas. I recently posted a document about scientists working during the Cold War who were studying ESP and soon objects around the room began to reappear and disappear, similar to poltergeist activity. They believed that it was possible that they discovered a new kind of energy and that this energy could potentially alter the space/time continuum. Very fascinating stuff.

Here it is if you need a direct link:https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2017/feb/17/nsas-psychic-nuke/
 
#8
If the claims of people like Greer are to be believed, there exists zero-point energy devices that could completely eliminate poverty and give every single person on the planet complete access to electricity free of charge, which would be a remarkable achievement. Also, if the claims of these researchers are to be believed, there are multiple alien races already living on Earth. Personally, I don't know how you could continue to go about your day to day life working a job, making money,etc.. having been exposed to such fantastic information (if it is indeed true). It would make everything we have established as a civilization seem relatively useless in comparison.

I don't know. I guess to really believe and experience the things that some of these researchers are saying, I don't know how you could go about pretending to live your life- it would just seem like such BS in comparison.
I don't think you need to be exposed to fantastic information to conclude that the rat race is useless. I think our civilization is insane. The way we have it organized, people have to work themselves to death just to survive. We have the technology and resources for people to live comfortably without killing themselves but everyone wants to be the richest person so they are all competing and you can't find a job where they don't extract as much labor for as little money and even unskilled workers have to compete for jobs so everyone has to work work work. It is insane. When I dropped out of the rat race I had a lot less money and a lot more happiness.

People don't really want happiness. They want things, and power, and wealth. They think those things would make them happy but they don't.

I am a capitalist. Free market capitalism is when people are free to trade the fruits of their labor without the government interfering. The problem with our system is not capitalism, The problem is our culture where people admire wealth and power rather than kindness, love, and tolerance. I don't admire people who are wealthy and powerful. I admire people who are happy even though they are poor.
 
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#9
Hi everyone. This seems like an interesting thread, but it should not be placed among the podcasts. I will try and move the whole thread somewhere more suitable later today. Can anyone explain how it got here?

David
I don't know, David, I just asked about the link to an interesting posting. Please explain to us newbies what we can or cannot do on this forum?
 
#10
OK - I moved the thread - I hope everyone can find it in the new position. Starting a thread in the Skeptiko shows section is basically reserved for Alex - although the software doesn't enforce this.

My first comment on the subject of this thread, is that I seriously wonder if 'cold fusion' was not buried for this reason - to prevent people obtaining cheap energy.
I don't know, David, I just asked about the link to an interesting posting. Please explain to us newbies what we can or cannot do on this forum?
Don't worry - it is just that we keep the section with the actual podcast threads clear of other threads. This is quite different from serious moderation issues, which are very rare - basically people becoming an unbearable pain in the ass!

David
 
#11
OK - I moved the thread - I hope everyone can find it in the new position. Starting a thread in the Skeptiko shows section is basically reserved for Alex - although the software doesn't enforce this.

My first comment on the subject of this thread, is that I seriously wonder if 'cold fusion' was not buried for this reason - to prevent people obtaining cheap energy.


Don't worry - it is just that we keep the section with the actual podcast threads clear of other threads. This is quite different from serious moderation issues, which are very rare - basically people becoming an unbearable pain in the ass!

David
Do you think 'cold fusion' could provide a solution to our energy crisis? Would it produce large amounts of radioactive wastes?
 
#12
Do you think 'cold fusion' could provide a solution to our energy crisis? Would it produce large amounts of radioactive wastes?
Well this is a fascinating subject, and there is almost certainly some politics mixed in. Here are a number of established scientists discussing the issues:

https://coldfusionnow.org/interviews/

When last I read about this, there was evidence that nickel and hydrogen (ordinary light hydrogen) could be made to fuse to yield an isotope of copper plus some heat. As with all nuclear reactions, the quantity of heat evolved was large, but as I remember none of the products were radioactive.

There is an argument that fusion by chemical means is impossible because the energy needed to push two nuclei close enough to fuse is way beyond thermal energies (hence the need for very hot fusion reactors). However, others have pointed out that this might not be the end of the story, because in a metal various solid state effects become important.

This field is also known as Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR).

Certainly, after Fleischmann and Pons (both respected scientists) announced their discovery, there was an obscene scramble to 'prove' they made a mistake and to discredit them. Much of that work was done in about 3 weeks at a hot-fusion laboratory, where there would be very little expertise in electro-chemistry.

David
 
#13
I don't think you need to be exposed to fantastic information to conclude that the rat race is useless. I think our civilization is insane. The way we have it organized, people have to work themselves to death just to survive. We have the technology and resources for people to live comfortably without killing themselves but everyone wants to be the richest person so they are all competing and you can't find a job where they don't extract as much labor for as little money and even unskilled workers have to compete for jobs so everyone has to work work work. It is insane. When I dropped out of the rat race I had a lot less money and a lot more happiness.

People don't really want happiness. They want things, and power, and wealth. They think those things would make them happy but they don't.

I am a capitalist. Free market capitalism is when people are free to trade the fruits of their labor without the government interfering. The problem with our system is not capitalism, The problem is our culture where people admire wealth and power rather than kindness, love, and tolerance. I don't admire people who are wealthy and powerful. I admire people who are happy even though they are poor.
I think this sums it up for me too Jim. What is that quote, paraphrasing here -- it is no measure of sanity to be adjusted to an insane society.
 
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