Does it matter?

#22
malf said:
Harden up
Right. That's what this whole debacle is about. Proponents hardening up, and Arouet asking us to soften down, hold hand, and sing each other into peaceful slumber.

That's probably the smartest thing I've seen you type.
 
#23
Right. That's what this whole debacle is about. Proponents hardening up, and Arouet asking us to soften down, hold hand, and sing each other into peaceful slumber.

That's probably the smartest thing I've seen you type.
It was a joke, but I realised someone (you) would misconstrue it to turn it into a lame point scoring exercise so I had already deleted it.
 
#25
It was a joke, but I realised someone (you) would misconstrue it to turn it into a lame point scoring exercise so I had already deleted it.
Right, so Ghost makes a point of saying that there are hundreds of atheist podcasts that degrade proponents and you respond with a ' joke '.

Arouet, do you see why your community building plan is doomed to fail?
 
#26
And see, now you've just insinuated that it's the proponent and skeptic side that are acting like children, and you're the voice of reason.
I don't exclude myself from the group! I've done my fair share of it as well. But I recognise it and believe there is a better way.

At least, this is how people who have a strong distaste for you will see it. I feel that you feel you're sounding and acting reasonable, but you're really insulting people through a veil of neutrality. This is why I always point out to you guys your subtle bullshit.
My intention was not to insult - though it was to constructively criticise. And make no mistake, I criticise myself when I fail in this regard too. I try and apologise when I catch it. I get no pleasure from insulting people and I feel badly after doing it.

But Iyace, what turns on my neutrality or lack thereof in any of my posts? My words stand on their own. Once they are down they don't belong to me anymore.
 
#29
I don't exclude myself from the group! I've done my fair share of it as well. But I recognise it and believe there is a better way.



My intention was not to insult - though it was to constructively criticise. And make no mistake, I criticise myself when I fail in this regard too. I try and apologise when I catch it. I get no pleasure from insulting people and I feel badly after doing it.

But Iyace, what turns on my neutrality or lack thereof in any of my posts? My words stand on their own. Once they are down they don't belong to me anymore.
But what are you doing here ? You are probably a nice guy but it doesn't matter how many times you tell me there's no evidence.....I've moved on because I know there is. Why don't you go back to the Jref and take your lovely Linda with you, you'll be happier there, surely ? I mean that sincerely, what's the point anymore of arguing, Aware already have the first (official) OBE by the sounds of it which means you lost, it's over...no wait, you won't accept it, will you.
 
#30
I think this is so instructive in terms of appreciating some of the more confrontational proponents here. I can only imagine how it would feel to know in your heart and your mind that something is true, have that something basically hold up under scientific scrutiny, and yet still be treated as delusional, wishful and/or deceitful by a large swath of academia and public intellectuals as a result.
I think that's an important point to make. We all can probably draw an experience like this to try to understand how deep-seated hard feelings can become.

Linda
 
#31
I don't exclude myself from the group! I've done my fair share of it as well. But I recognise it and believe there is a better way.
In your example, you excluded yourself from the group.

My intention was not to insult - though it was to constructively criticise. And make no mistake, I criticise myself when I fail in this regard too. I try and apologise when I catch it. I get no pleasure from insulting people and I feel badly after doing it.
Your intentions don't really matter. You do insult.

But Iyace, what turns on my neutrality or lack thereof in any of my posts? My words stand on their own. Once they are down they don't belong to me anymore.
You want to discuss your words in a debate that flings constant assaults at people's character. Media skeptics make constant character assassinations against proponent scientists. Look at when Richard Flew renounced his atheism in a well drafted and good letter. There was a massive slew of character assassination accusing him of senility. His words were not taken at face value, and yours won't be as well.

Once again, that's a symptom of YOUR side's tactics. Own it up and just get used to it.
 
#34
BTW
Arouet, it's really not you or the people here. It's spill over from Dawkins, and about 20 atheist podcasts, and just this negative attitude that accompanies atheist/skeptics in general.
Right, so Ghost makes a point of saying that there are hundreds of atheist podcasts that degrade proponents and you respond with a ' joke '.
Hyperbole much? :D
 
#35
This I find genuinely interesting. Can you elaborate? Do you think it would be a bad thing to have a community where skeptics and proponents treated each other with respect and genuinely attempted to really communicate? (I get that you think it can't ever happen, but I'm just talking about the concept itself).
 
#36
This I find genuinely interesting. Can you elaborate? Do you think it would be a bad thing to have a community where skeptics and proponents treated each other with respect and genuinely attempted to really communicate? (I get that you think it can't ever happen, but I'm just talking about the concept itself).
Because the problem isn't with the personalities of this forum. The problem is that these two communities are mired in animosity towards each other. Look at every forum that shares these topic. You yourself have mentioned that this is the most respectful forum out of any of them. If that's the case, that is sad.
 
#38
Because the problem isn't with the personalities of this forum. The problem is that these two communities are mired in animosity towards each other. Look at every forum that shares these topic. You yourself have mentioned that this is the most respectful forum out of any of them. If that's the case, that is sad.
Ok, but you're focusing again on whether it is possible to have a forum where the skeptics and proponents treated each other with respect and really make an effort to communicate with one another. We can come to that. But first I'm trying to get a sense of whether you think such a place would be desirable.
 
#40
Ok, but you're focusing again on whether it is possible to have a forum where the skeptics and proponents treated each other with respect and really make an effort to communicate with one another. We can come to that. But first I'm trying to get a sense of whether you think such a place would be desirable.
Of course it would be desirable. It's not going to happen, for the details listed above.
 
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