Dr. Bernardo Kastrup, What Split Personality Tells Us About Consciousness |461|

#61
I don't think it's even possible to self annihilate, because I don't believe in oneness or unified consciousness. Nevertheless, your description of the Left Hand Path seems interesting. Is there any book or website about this topic that you would recommend?
I know I replied to this post before, but I always remain ever open minded such that when new information comes across my plate, I am always open to adjusting my views.

At the time of your post, Raimo, and my reply, I had not yet come across the writings (and videos) of Kurt Leland. I am currently reading his book, The Multidimensional Human: Practices for Psychic Development and Astral Projection.

He maps the the experience of consciousness as emanating (originally) from the divine "plane" (he refers to the term "plane" as used by the Theosophists) - he also refers to this quite often as "Source."

In my reply, I stated that the view of Dr. Flowers was [paraphrased] "That the Right Hand Path adherent would eventually 'return to Source' which would result in self-annihilation. A Left Hand Path adherent has chosen to retain its identity and thus never submits to 'God' or 'Nature' and thus would never face self-annihilation."

Interestingly, Leland, in The Multidimensional Human, starting at the bottom of page 86 begins to discuss one's evolution through the planes in a "return to Source."

"We're limited to the physical plane if our true identity is weak (which is why we need to develop our existential senses). Accessing the astral plane in dreams means that our identity is stronger. But we're not free to travel into the upper reaches of this plane until we've mastered our emotions.

Once our emotions have been mastered, we're strong enough to explore the lower reaches of the mental plane. Mastering our thoughts allows us to rise to the higher reaches closer to the Source. And so it goes, beyond the mental plane to the buddhic, nirvanic and monadic. On the divine plane, our identity would be strong enough to experience complete union with Source without dissolving." [emphasis mine]

Considering this possibility, it dawned on me that I had not considered this third possibility. Retention of identity while merging (and after merging) with Source, once identity has been established. If Leland is correct, once we establish identity, the only way to return to Source is through a strengthening (mastership) of that identity in relation to all planes and all beings in all planes.

And so before, I only considered an "either, or" situation and had not imagined this third possibility.

As for the possibility of self-annihilation, because I see any limitation as unacceptable (including self-annihilation) I do not wish to believe it isn't possible. Having said that, at the end of the day, I may not ultimately be the one (or at least a one) to make a call like that.

In addition, I can see a philosophical argument that includes the possibility of "self-annihilation" to be... impossible. I am still working on writing it up in a reasonably articulate way.
 
#62
Maybe they were hoping for clearer communication given the devices limitations versus humans.
A device? I was under the impression that we had what was required built-in to each of us already. Seriously - the question is not one of technology but of where we place our conscious intent and in what we choose to believe as well as what we choose to ignore. Adding a chunk of hardware won't help to resolve those things.
 
#63
Thanks for those links. In time, friend i hope to have the space i need to really write and explore.

But for me, the soulswitch will get me off the proverbial fence.

I know too much to deny but not enough to feel i understand.

I understand your view, but I would not use the word, "we" like you did because there are more and more folks in all communities (and all scientific communities) that are opening more and more to moving past a limited physicalist world view. Deep is a great example of a one of these cutting edge type scientists who knows that the current scientific paradigms are far from explaining his actual experiences, especially the fantastic one he shared in early 2020.

Because I have formed all sorts of relationships all over the world with folks who are in all sorts of disciplines, what I have found quite incredible is how many of them have had anomalous experiences which cannot be explain within the current "popular, mainstream" science communities' currently accepted "theories" and one by one, they are having private conversations with each other and this is how huge paradigm shifts begin... and in this case, it would involve a consciousness shift as well.

IMO, when humanity of Earth is ready (within each of the various timelines in each their own time), the next leap will occur.

I noticed you used the term "idealism" and so I would like you to look at this (even Wikipedia can sometimes avoid skewing) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_monism

and then give this one a listen (when they are done with the maintenance) - https://www.thehighersidechats.com/phoenix-aurelius-personal-mastery-the-unseen-realms-fungi/
 
#64
Thanks for those links. In time, friend i hope to have the space i need to really write and explore.

But for me, the soulswitch will get me off the proverbial fence.

I know too much to deny but not enough to feel i understand.
I very, very much understand. Let me ask... is there other forms of experience that might get you off that fence? And the only reason I ask is because of my own experience where, once I combined a yearning to know with an open mindedness as to all the potential ways "it" can say, "booo," I soon began to have all sorts of psi type experiences which connected in deeply personally meaningful ways.

I hope so much for you that you can start having those experiences because, if you are like myself and so many I hear from who have and do... once they start, they can expand in frequency, complexity and profundity.
 
#65
I know I replied to this post before, but I always remain ever open minded such that when new information comes across my plate, I am always open to adjusting my views.

At the time of your post, Raimo, and my reply, I had not yet come across the writings (and videos) of Kurt Leland. I am currently reading his book, The Multidimensional Human: Practices for Psychic Development and Astral Projection.

He maps the the experience of consciousness as emanating (originally) from the divine "plane" (he refers to the term "plane" as used by the Theosophists) - he also refers to this quite often as "Source."

In my reply, I stated that the view of Dr. Flowers was [paraphrased] "That the Right Hand Path adherent would eventually 'return to Source' which would result in self-annihilation. A Left Hand Path adherent has chosen to retain its identity and thus never submits to 'God' or 'Nature' and thus would never face self-annihilation."

Interestingly, Leland, in The Multidimensional Human, starting at the bottom of page 86 begins to discuss one's evolution through the planes in a "return to Source."

"We're limited to the physical plane if our true identity is weak (which is why we need to develop our existential senses). Accessing the astral plane in dreams means that our identity is stronger. But we're not free to travel into the upper reaches of this plane until we've mastered our emotions.

Once our emotions have been mastered, we're strong enough to explore the lower reaches of the mental plane. Mastering our thoughts allows us to rise to the higher reaches closer to the Source. And so it goes, beyond the mental plane to the buddhic, nirvanic and monadic. On the divine plane, our identity would be strong enough to experience complete union with Source without dissolving." [emphasis mine]

Considering this possibility, it dawned on me that I had not considered this third possibility. Retention of identity while merging (and after merging) with Source, once identity has been established. If Leland is correct, once we establish identity, the only way to return to Source is through a strengthening (mastership) of that identity in relation to all planes and all beings in all planes.

And so before, I only considered an "either, or" situation and had not imagined this third possibility.

As for the possibility of self-annihilation, because I see any limitation as unacceptable (including self-annihilation) I do not wish to believe it isn't possible. Having said that, at the end of the day, I may not ultimately be the one (or at least a one) to make a call like that.

In addition, I can see a philosophical argument that includes the possibility of "self-annihilation" to be... impossible. I am still working on writing it up in a reasonably articulate way.
Raimo!

This came to me today...

If I experience identity (individuation), that fact can never be erased. So of course one can return yet always retain their experiences (which forms their entire identity - they can't be unexperienced).

I have adjusted my view (which actually means, my hope and desire). As much as I loath any form of "spiritual limitation" (even self-annihilation), perhaps the closest one might get to that is refusal to complete the return to source which, in assessment of so many who seem to gravitate to the LHP almost always results in ego on steroids.

I thank you for getting me to think about this (which I have a great deal since I read your post a few months back)...

I wonder now if I have to reevaluate where I had positioned Gnosticism (formerly left and up). Maybe just straight up? Not left, not right but straight up and through?
 
#66
I have been open to sychronicity. And was going to start journaling. I should do it. Thanks for the reminder.

But as for my skepticism, i dont need strong scientific evidence. I need someone to fill in the massive gap in our knowledge. Why is this happening, anything happening? What is its basis?

Humans need story, true. But i would be totally fine with an outline of some kind of technical explanation.

Its the lack of techical knowledge that makes me suspicious of religion. As for science, its their clear ignorance that makes me skeptical of common explanations of nde and alien phenomena.

To believe i need to know. Or so i have always thought. But maybe i dont have to approach it so strictly.


I very, very much understand. Let me ask... is there other forms of experience that might get you off that fence? And the only reason I ask is because of my own experience where, once I combined a yearning to know with an open mindedness as to all the potential ways "it" can say, "booo," I soon began to have all sorts of psi type experiences which connected in deeply personally meaningful ways.

I hope so much for you that you can start having those experiences because, if you are like myself and so many I hear from who have and do... once they start, they can expand in frequency, complexity and profundity.
 
#67
Its the lack of techical knowledge that makes me suspicious of religion.
May I ask what you mean specifically by technical knowledge? Imo, religious traditions and the traditional metaphysics that accompany them do have a lot of technical knowledge. You might not like the framing, but the knowledge is there.
 
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